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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley in Cadillac V-Series Forums; D3, I was looking in the XLR-V forum and you show the Black and Yellow V and it states "Supercharger ...
  1. #16
    PGA2B's Avatar
    PGA2B is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    D3,

    I was looking in the XLR-V forum and you show the Black and Yellow V and it states "Supercharger Lid Spacer" in the mod list???

    Are you holding out on us??????????

  2. #17
    PSRmark's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by rubber2burn View Post
    no way do these guys have the ability to mfg, belts in house. I could make pullys too on my machining centers for half of that!
    HAHAHAHA, if you could then do it. oh, and make sure you get the harmonics right as the improper frequencies will tear up an engine quick. While you're at it, get it SFI approved as well so that anybody who has one can actually pass tech inspection at the track.

  3. #18
    rubber2burn is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by PSRmark View Post
    HAHAHAHA, if you could then do it. oh, and make sure you get the harmonics right as the improper frequencies will tear up an engine quick. While you're at it, get it SFI approved as well so that anybody who has one can actually pass tech inspection at the track.
    What would be a reasonable price one would expect to pay to have one of these for our cars? How many other manufactures or aftermarket accssory retailers currently sell this type of product for the LC3 4.4L? What would be a conservative estimate number of people that would by this product for their car?

  4. #19
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by rubber2burn View Post
    What would be a reasonable price one would expect to pay to have one of these for our cars? How many other manufactures or aftermarket accssory retailers currently sell this type of product for the LC3 4.4L? What would be a conservative estimate number of people that would by this product for their car?
    Considering I know how much it costs to make a unit like this I would say 1k is within the realm. The problem is noone cared about making parts for these cars to make them go fast. The demand is going to be low and I think D3 knew that. If a much larger production run could have been made then I'm sure the initial cost could have been much lower.

    I was simply stating that I seriously doubt you could Manf a harmonic balancer assembly for half the amount they sell it for and yet still maintain the proper harmonic frequencies and have it SFI certified.

  5. #20
    jedhead is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    When I sold underdrive pulley sets, the minimum run to make them was 25 each. I always ended up with extras because I had to have 3 different alt pulleys and two different power steering pulley in order to make sure that I would be able to have a complete set for sale. Higher volume purchasers always had priority (more $$$$ for the machine shop) so many times my delivery date was pushed back. I am sure that D3 has to compete with higher volume customers from their suppliers.

    Bob

  6. #21
    rubber2burn is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by PSRmark View Post
    Considering I know how much it costs to make a unit like this I would say 1k is within the realm. The problem is noone cared about making parts for these cars to make them go fast. The demand is going to be low and I think D3 knew that. If a much larger production run could have been made then I'm sure the initial cost could have been much lower.

    I was simply stating that I seriously doubt you could Manf a harmonic balancer assembly for half the amount they sell it for and yet still maintain the proper harmonic frequencies and have it SFI certified.
    Let me first say that I did not say I could manufacture a "harmonic balacer" but rather implied that I could build a pulley that bolts to the harmonic balancer for half that cost. I was not trying to amuse anyone or write anything that should be considered inacurate or derogatory. By stating I could build pulleys for half that cost, it is not to say D3 is offering a inferior product but questioning their price and fishing for information as to whether there is any strong interest in this product at a lesser cost. Kind of hoping my inbox would be full of requests the next day:-)

    I dont know if D3 manufactures Belts, Pulleys or harmonic balancers. I would suspect that they contract out the manufacturing of all of these components. I do not see D3 on the list of manufacturers approved by SFI for the manufacture of harmonic balancers, so I will assume that they buy them from someone who is, that way they can still say that the balancers are SFI approved.

    From looking at my motor I have 3 pulleys and Belts driven off the crank. The first pulley, the one closest to the block, is mounted on the outside diameter of the vibration dampner(looks like its over the rubber portion) and only drives the alternator. The pulley in the middle drives the power steering, Water, and AC. The pulley on the outside drives the SC only. I have not seen the part breakdown for the stock vibration dampner but I believe that the outer two pulleys(that drive the acc. and SC) are just bolted to the "center" of the vibration dampner. Easy to manufacture a "double pulley" (2"x 6"Dia. piece of aluminum or steel turned and milled). AC,PS ratios would not change as the middle pulley would be made the same size as OEM DIA. Of coarse if you still wanted SFI approved, you could go with a ATI balancer and a Gates belt.

    As far as manufacturing ability goes, my company has machined parts so small you can hardly see them with your eye and uses non contact methods to inspect these parts, to achieveing better than a .2 PPM defects machining airbag components with custom designed and built, fully automated machineing solutions for one of the worlds largest airbag/seatbelt manufacturers (of which are in??? you guessed it).
    I may not know much about tuneing modern vehicals and making them faster, but can make or do just about anything you can imagine from metal. (shameless plug) Kind of hope I can contribute to this form somehow as I do enjoy my V and reading about improvements to it.

    Yes, D3 has obvious overhead and R&D cost, and should do everything they can do to recapture those costs... $1000?? maybe I am making the wrong type of parts for my customers. Just my 10 cents I guess.

  7. #22
    deedubb's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Yikes! I thought the Innovators West OD crank pulley for my CTS-V was expensive at $500! Holy Moley!

  8. #23
    MiamiV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    I know our cars are rare but how long can u try to sell performance parts and NO one really wanting to pay those prices pay off mor than lowering the price so everyone with an STS V will do the mods and rant and rave about your products. ( sale quantitly befor Price ) I wish these guys would do a Price cut and no 30% bS cut. Being Quad cam is hard enough

  9. #24
    PSRmark's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by rubber2burn View Post
    From looking at my motor I have 3 pulleys and Belts driven off the crank. The first pulley, the one closest to the block, is mounted on the outside diameter of the vibration dampner(looks like its over the rubber portion) and only drives the alternator. The pulley in the middle drives the power steering, Water, and AC. The pulley on the outside drives the SC only. I have not seen the part breakdown for the stock vibration dampner but I believe that the outer two pulleys(that drive the acc. and SC) are just bolted to the "center" of the vibration dampner. Easy to manufacture a "double pulley" (2"x 6"Dia. piece of aluminum or steel turned and milled). AC,PS ratios would not change as the middle pulley would be made the same size as OEM DIA. Of coarse if you still wanted SFI approved, you could go with a ATI balancer and a Gates belt.
    I think what you dont understand is that the harmonic balancer and all 3 pullies are 1 cast unit fron the factory. So in order for you to make under/over drive units you must build a balancer as well.

  10. #25
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by deedubb View Post
    Yikes! I thought the Innovators West OD crank pulley for my CTS-V was expensive at $500! Holy Moley!
    whats funny is, that balancer fits on so many different applications and not just the V, they were able to get a large production run on those hence why the cost is only 500. granted, 500 is still a lot, but I gurantee with the 20-30 that D3 made it cost more than 500.

  11. #26
    rubber2burn is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by PSRmark View Post
    I think what you dont understand is that the harmonic balancer and all 3 pullies are 1 cast unit fron the factory. So in order for you to make under/over drive units you must build a balancer as well.
    You are correct in that than. I did not realize that the factory balancer cast all 3 pulleys. (well at least 2 of them, I believe the dapening ring/ alternator pulley is pressed???)
    Looking at the pictures of D3's Balancer it definatly looks as though the outer 2 pullys bolt to the dampner with 3 screws.
    What I dont understand is how can you sell a product that in its advertizement will give you either pluss or minus 30 HP? Is this a missprint or are there legal issues here?

  12. #27
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by rubber2burn View Post
    What I dont understand is how can you sell a product that in its advertizement will give you either pluss or minus 30 HP? Is this a missprint or are there legal issues here?
    LOL

    I have no idea about that stuff. I was simply stating on the manf. portion and not their advertising.

  13. #28
    Dr. Design is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Actually the advertisement should read as +/- 30WHP increase (i.e. roughly 30 WHP give or take a few ponies). NOT literally plus or minus 30WHP....

    As for the production of the pulleys. I think we know better than anyone else what it takes to manufacture products for such a limited application without compromising the quality of the product. For years we developed products for the STS-V and XLR-V when nobody else would. The cost for us to develop products were pretty tremendous, yet we continued to develop components for this application. It's pretty easy to play copycat in this industry and wait for someone else to do all the development and research, just to come out with a knock off or cheap version of the product. We developed our product through CAD data from GM with all the frequencies and tolerances called out.

    Please let us know if there are any questions.

    Thank you,

    Dr. Design
    D3 Cadillac







    Quote Originally Posted by rubber2burn View Post
    You are correct in that than. I did not realize that the factory balancer cast all 3 pulleys. (well at least 2 of them, I believe the dapening ring/ alternator pulley is pressed???)
    Looking at the pictures of D3's Balancer it definatly looks as though the outer 2 pullys bolt to the dampner with 3 screws.
    What I dont understand is how can you sell a product that in its advertizement will give you either pluss or minus 30 HP? Is this a missprint or are there legal issues here?

  14. #29
    jmak135 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    lol i think thease guys know best when it comes to manufacturing harmonic balancers so much r&d huh

    http://www.bhjdynamics.com/index.php...roducts_id=225

  15. #30
    rubber2burn is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac STS-V Boost Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Design View Post
    Actually the advertisement should read as +/- 30WHP increase (i.e. roughly 30 WHP give or take a few ponies). NOT literally plus or minus 30WHP....

    As for the production of the pulleys. I think we know better than anyone else what it takes to manufacture products for such a limited application without compromising the quality of the product. For years we developed products for the STS-V and XLR-V when nobody else would. The cost for us to develop products were pretty tremendous, yet we continued to develop components for this application. It's pretty easy to play copycat in this industry and wait for someone else to do all the development and research, just to come out with a knock off or cheap version of the product. We developed our product through CAD data from GM with all the frequencies and tolerances called out.
    Thank You for clarifying the WHP gains, I am just used to looking at blueprints all day and when it says pluss or minus .0001, that is "literally" what it means. That beeing said, dollar to WHP ratio, $1,000 seems like the best thing going for these V's at this time.

    I totally agree with you that competition is a good thing and at the same time bad. Bad because it forces us manufacturers to get off our butts and give the consumer what they demand. Good because it drives cost down for consumers. It allows others to improve on existing ideas. It spurs creativity to improvre existing ideas and processes which allows manufacturers to reduce costs on products so those savings might ultimatly be passed onto the consumer. This I like most of all; as that it can allow for greater profit margins.
    Anyone else care to add to this list?
    I love the USA

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