The ultimate intercooler upgrade!
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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, The ultimate intercooler upgrade! in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Guys... I am currently talking to a fabricator of a product that chills our intercooler fluid. It is a flat ...
  1. #1
    coach123 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Guys... I am currently talking to a fabricator of a product that chills our intercooler fluid. It is a flat plate heat exchanger that ties into the A/C system and our intercooler system to provide the lowest possible drop in IAT's. This modification would give you much lower temperatures than any upgraded heat exchanger.

    If we agree to move forward on this and I can setup a time to travel to his shop we will have a complete plug and play "activechiller". Plug and play = no cutting lines or changing anything. He has installed this on a maggie GTOP with intercooler fluid temps typically at 40-50F during heavy drives with multiple WOT's. I am hoping we can get this thing made specifically for our cars with an instruction guide w/ pics. The goal is to have a simple plug and play so anyone can install.

    Let me know if anyone is interested. If we decrease our IAT's enough then the ECM will start adding timing which means additional hp. The cooler we keep the air the more sustained our hp and tq are during heavy driving. I will keep everyone posted on the progress of this mod.

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  3. #2
    Psycho-albanian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Coach you da man! i envy you.

  4. #3
    TimmyC is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    AC systems don't typically have the BTU output to chill the required amount of water on a continuous basis. It might be enough for one or two WOT blasts but that's it. I don't think it would be worth the cost. I will be interested in results if you go ahead with it though.

  5. #4
    coach123 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    This system is more designed for the daily driver. I agree with you that if you are doing road courses or constantly WOT then a larger heat exchanger may be a more viable option. I was really thinking about adding Wait4Me upgraded dual pass heat exchanger but living in the city I think the A/C chiller might be a better option as it would provide cooling benefits all the time. This product is setup with a bypass switch built in to bypass the current heat exchanger when the A/C clutch is engaged. It can also have a switch to work when A/C is on or when it is off in the cabin. It has been shown that the stock heat exchanger actually tends to warm the fluid up more when the system is on. Here is a link of another similar product that was designed for the fords:

    http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...-Review/page11 - very long but informative thread.

    FYI the killerchiller is not plug and play requires professional A/C technican to install and requires cutting several A/C hoses. It also does not have the built in switches capable of bypassing heat exchanger and using chiller without A/C on.

    Here is youtube video of competitors:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Ql84-iz6I"]YouTube- Killer Chiller Temp test[/ame]

    If this project goes through we will size the chiller specifically for our car for max intercooler fluid temp reduction.

  6. #5
    550HP STSV is offline Banned
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    any idea on price?

  7. #6
    coach123 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    No not yet... Still in early stages. The product has been fabricated and used successfully in other supercharged vehicles but it has not been specifically designed for our car. It could be available now but probably would not be a straight plug and play unit at this time. My goal is to have step by step instruction so the average Joe will be able to install. I can't see it costing more than a really a dual pass heat exchanger with fans though.

    I am still working with the fabricator to see if we can coordinate a time to have it installed on my vehicle. Keeping my fingers crossed everything goes forward as planned.

  8. #7
    PGA2B's Avatar
    PGA2B is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    FYI- For anyone wanting to change out their current IC radiator the Perma Cool 12318 is a direct fit and they go for around $200. Do a Google search and you will find them.

  9. #8
    BlownV is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Maybe something I am just not understanding here but why are we trying to use our engines to cool our engines? This option would run off of the A/C compressor correct? Thereby requiring hp to lower the temps to then generate hp. I do agree a cooler intake charge is needed to get the most out of forced induction and from what everyone has been stating I am guessing that our superchargers are on the edge of their efficiency map...pretty close to the hair dryer effect...but I don't see this as the easy and reliable route.

    I am new the SC world here so please teach me if there is something I am missing. I can tell you that on turbo cars methanol is one of the best additions I have ever used. A properly tuned meth kit can yield over 100hp on a 4 cyl. 2.0L engine and even more torque. This comes from the increase in effective octane rating as well as the cooling effect of the methanol.

    They are simple to use, easy to install, and cheap to maintain. On top of all that, the methanol cleans your combustion chambers. For $500-800, it really is the cheapest HP you can buy.

  10. #9
    coach123 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    The problem with methanol kits is that you really need a tune specific for the added methanol and you have to constantly refill the methanol. I want something that requires no refilling besides my gas tank. The average hp lost when using your A/C is 10-15hp and as soon as you go WOT the ECM shuts off the A/C compressor. You would still have this hp available during WOT and the cooling effect when not in WOT. If you want to turn off the ability of the ECM to shut off the A/C at WOT you can through a tune. Personal preference really. I live in the south so during spring, summer, and fall I cannot live without my A/C on. When it is cool enough for your A/C to be off (winter months) then the chiller gets bypassed and uses your stock heat exchanger for cooling.

    It's all personal preference really if you want to make a great drag car and don't mind filling the reservoir then go for the meth. It will gain you the most hp over upgraded heat exchanger or chiller method. I like to keep things simple as I always like my cars as daily drivers. I don't think the few hp I would loose would bother me during regular driving. I think you actually would gain more in the grand scope of things since timing is not pulled as much. We drive a 4300lb sedan so I'm not looking to be a ZO6 anytime soon. Just have fun with what I am driving.

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    coach123 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Bump ttt... Come on guys only a few people are interested in this mod.. I guess people want to wait for the results before jumping on the bandwagon.

  12. #11
    550HP STSV is offline Banned
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Im interested if we could get a estimate in price, and what the actual gains would be.

  13. #12
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    bobs-sts-v is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Could someone give us non-tech guys an idea of what we are talking about here with a visual? Picture, link to a diagram, drawing, cocktail napkin, etc. with the basics. I am all for getting more boost, but not at the expense of either my warranty or my AC in the summer.

    Bob

  14. #13
    BlownV is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Coach-
    A specific tune for methanol is preffered but I can tell you that it is not necessary. Yes you will need it to get the most out of your vehicle but you already have to tune for all of your other mods...even just a simple exhaust so I don't see that as a reason to avoid it. The tune is pretty easy anyway as all you have to do is lean out the mix a little to account for the combustible portion of the meth/water mix.

    As far as always refilling it...that depends on your driving. As I'm sure you know the meth/water mix is not injected all the time but only at higher boost levels. Since we see 12psi stock I would setup the injection to start at 9-10 psi which I probably only hit a few times on my way into work each day (on-ramps). The amount of mix consumed is directly proportional to hp and on my 950bhp 2.0L (723awhp) running 34 psi I was only refilling my 1 gallon methanol tank every 3-4 gas fill-ups. I was not babying that vehicle around town either. I suspect a 2 gallon tank in the trunk would only need filling every 6-7 or so gas fill-ups. Additionally methanol/water mix is cheap...you can run windshield washer fluid with has meth content in it. HEAT I believe is 35-40% meth which is a common fluid that people in the sport compact circle use.

    I can promise that the meth kit would be easier to install than a 'kilerchiller' setup or similar from my research on it thus far. The good systems out there are almost plug and play even for the universal units. Run power to the pump, tap the intake for the nozzle and run an airflow input to the controller...that's it. You can either run a simple boost switch activated setup by t-ing off a vac line or splice into the signal from our factory MAP sensors.

    My kit is from LabonteMotorsports and features a touchscreen display to set the parameters of the progressive controller...from there it tunes itself. What I do plan to do (a little more complicated) is have an oversized pully fabricated to run higher boost from the SC (16psi), then T into the bypass valve actuator with the meth kit's optional output signal solenoid. The controller for the kit monitors methanol fluid flow through the nozzle and in the event of decreased flow (running out of fluid) it will trigger the solenoid which in turn will allow the bypass valve to open and lower the intake pressure to the stock 12psi. It is the same as the setup I ran on my dual-stage boost controller on my last vehicle and works like a charm.

  15. #14
    coach123 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Our systems run hot as it is which is why performance is so much better in the winter months. This system would tie into the A/C so that part of the warranty may be voided. Any upgrades to the car besides intake, exhaust, or headers will warrant an upgrade to the intercooler system. Just an upgrade to the intercooler system itself will unlock additional hp on this car during spirited driving conditions.

    Does anyone know if an upgraded heat exchanger voids any warranty? Does anyone have first hand experience with dealers on this subject?

    I expect that the gentlemen working on this project will sell them for around $500-700. Here is an installation link for the GTO.

    http://activeinterchiller.com/

    This product may take some time before finishing because he is currently machining all parts for it himself. He has promised several GTO's a kit so I am in line but I have been communicating with him on a daily basis. He is sending me an inline temperature sensor to log what our intercooler fluids are during various driving conditions.

    Hope this helps

  16. #15
    BlownV is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!

    Meant to put this link up on the last post:

    HTML Code:
    http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/ISG-S3.html
    This is the kit I run

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