SALE: STS-V Stage 1 Intake

[Fire and Ice]

Looking to add more power to your STS-V? How about another 18 rwhp and 17 lbs/tq? D3 is having an end of October sale on the D3 Stage 1 Intakes. Any finish for $400.00. That's a savings of $50.00 off MSRP. Orders must be placed by October 31st, 2008. Please contact our sales department for more information.

[Jpjr]

shipping included?

[Fire and Ice]

Price does not include shipping or any applicable taxes.

[Fire and Ice]

Jpjr, tried to reply to your PM, but your inbox is full. Give me a call or email me directly when you're ready to order. Thank you again.

[CTSV_Rob]

I was thinking about an air intake but all of the research I did showed actual gains of maybe 3 HP/TQ gains. Of course this was with a different design on a different car but I think these numbers are typical. Do you have the before and after Dyno runs to show these gains with your setup?

Also, I understand These types of Super Chargers are a little more prone to Heat soak because of the inter-cooler design. Wouldn't it be better to have the air cleaner in a box (Like the Volant setup)? Seems to me you would just draw in the hot air from the engine compartment into the engine. I would think on a hot day you could actually lose power with this setup.

Quality looks top notch though.

[Fire and Ice]

Before and after dyno of the Stage 1 STS-V Intake.

[trukk]

It has always been my understanding that you need to let the car rewrite the LTFT's before you can get a true reading on a CAI. In may cases, the 'gain' you are seeing is because the PCM hasn't relearned yet, and the car is running a bit leaner than it usually would. Once the LTFT's are re-written, it goes back down.

I did a test on my LPE cai a week between, and saw 7 rwhp and 3.5 rwtq.

-Chris

[Jpjr]

Originally Posted by trukk

It has always been my understanding that you need to let the car rewrite the LTFT's before you can get a true reading on a CAI. In may cases, the 'gain' you are seeing is because the PCM hasn't relearned yet, and the car is running a bit leaner than it usually would. Once the LTFT's are re-written, it goes back down.

I did a test on my LPE cai a week between, and saw 7 rwhp and 3.5 rwtq.

-Chris

As long as you do not increase the diamater of the intake tube where the sensor reads, I would not think this would happen. You are simply pumping more cold air in, which does not lean the car out. If you added more air by tricking the computer (not recalibrating) that would lean the car out. I may be wrong...

[Fire and Ice]

Originally Posted by Jpjr

As long as you do not increase the diamater of the intake tube where the sensor reads, I would not think this would happen. You are simply pumping more cold air in, which does not lean the car out. If you added more air by tricking the computer (not recalibrating) that would lean the car out. I may be wrong...

Exactly! We left the intake tube the same diameter and even the MAF sensor is in the same location. This does not affect a/f ratios, simply lets more air in. The increase in HP is due to additional air flow (a less restrictive intake.) It's like using a performance muffler on your car. That doesn't change emissions or a/f ratios, but allows more air to leave the system, thus producing more power, torque, etc. Our plug n play ECU boxes will recalibrate a/f ratios producing even more power on top of the CAI and exhaust system.

[trukk]

Originally Posted by Fire and Ice

Exactly! We left the intake tube the same diameter and even the MAF sensor is in the same location. This does not affect a/f ratios, simply lets more air in. The increase in HP is due to additional air flow (a less restrictive intake.) It's like using a performance muffler on your car. That doesn't change emissions or a/f ratios, but allows more air to leave the system, thus producing more power, torque, etc. Our plug n play ECU boxes will recalibrate a/f ratios producing even more power on top of the CAI and exhaust system.

HUH? Letting in more air, or letting more exhasut out doesn't change A/F ratio's? Of course it does, that's the entire purpose of those mods, to increase the overall volume of fuel and air going into the engine.

When you initally install a CAI, it is letting more air into the engine. This causes the engine to run slightly leaner. The PCM will compensation by slightly changing the STFT's (short term tables). It won't mess with the LTFT's (long term tables) for a while, as it thinks the change is probabaly just due to atmospheric changes (pressure/temp/etc.) The STFT's aren't going to compensate for the new ammount of air comming in. Eventually (after a few days or a week, depending on the liiage you rack up), the LTFT's will settle in, the A/F ration will be pulled back down (richer), and you won't see the gains you did intially. This is the same type of gain that you'd see if you gave a car a tune, to run a bit leaner.

The CAI will still do something, as it is letting in a bit more air, and if it's designed to be an actuall CAI, and pull in cool aire from somewhere outside of the engine bay, then the more dense air will help as well. This is why I dyno'd my car about 2 weeks apart, and came up with 7rwhp, 3.5 rwtq for a CAI install.

I'm a beleiver that CAI's work, and are worthwhile. A lot of other people think they are hogwash. I do believe that claiming 20 rwhp after the PCM settles in is stretching it.

Your customers will have to determine if $450 is worth a couple of HP or not.

-Chris

[CTSV_Rob]

^^ That post looks dead on to me and those are some believable gains, good job Chris.

[hodgeee1]

After buying and owning this intake, I 100% believe that it is possible and real, and feeling it is believing it. Yeah a lot of intakes only improve a few hp, but when you start with a 470hp base, the 7hp gain you get on a 250hp vehicle can easily be 18hp on a 470hp vehicle. It is also easily proven in time if the intake works, and D3's does! Hell, my air intake on my 05 corvette gave me 19whp on my car with only 400hp. I am sorry but try breathing through paper, then try through cotton, and one is mighty easier than the other, plus when something as simple as a water pump or clutch fan on a car can eat as much as 20hp to turn a little wheel!

[Fire and Ice]

Originally Posted by trukk

HUH? Letting in more air, or letting more exhasut out doesn't change A/F ratio's? Of course it does, that's the entire purpose of those mods, to increase the overall volume of fuel and air going into the engine.

-Chris

Ok, maybe I should rephrase this one. If you install a better breathing intake, it allows more air in. We can all agree on this one. So you're correct, it does change the amount of air/fuel being drawn into the cylinders, but the computer will detect the increase in airflow through the MAF and it automatically adjusts the amount of fuel it adds to maintain X:1 fuel ratios. If your computer is programmed to target say, 12:1 A/F ratios as an example then regardless of how much air you draw in, the computer should automatically adjust to compensate for the additional airflow. The reason you make more power is not because you lean the a/f ratios out, but because you're packing more air (and fuel) into the cylinder each time creating a denser, more power charge. To adjust the a/f ratios, you need to program the PCM to target different parameters or change the way the sensors read conditions.

[Jpjr]

trukk - fire and ice is correct. If you let more air into the motor, the A/F tune stays the same by simply adding more fuel.

the way you would lean out the A/F is by 1) recalbrating the maf, 2) tricking the maf by changing a static assumption (e.g., the width of the intake pipe), 3) running out of fuel (e.g., needing higher flowing injectors, higher flowing pump, etc.), 4) tuning for higher air/fuel, etc.

UPDATE: I just grabbed one of these intakes from Craig at D3. Thanks!!

[trukk]

Originally Posted by Fire and Ice

Ok, maybe I should rephrase this one. If you install a better breathing intake, it allows more air in. We can all agree on this one. So you're correct, it does change the amount of air/fuel being drawn into the cylinders, but the computer will detect the increase in airflow through the MAF and it automatically adjusts the amount of fuel it adds to maintain X:1 fuel ratios. If your computer is programmed to target say, 12:1 A/F ratios as an example then regardless of how much air you draw in, the computer should automatically adjust to compensate for the additional airflow. The reason you make more power is not because you lean the a/f ratios out, but because you're packing more air (and fuel) into the cylinder each time creating a denser, more power charge. To adjust the a/f ratios, you need to program the PCM to target different parameters or change the way the sensors read conditions.

Originally Posted by Jpjr

trukk - fire and ice is correct. If you let more air into the motor, the A/F tune stays the same by simply adding more fuel.

the way you would lean out the A/F is by 1) recalbrating the maf, 2) tricking the maf by changing a static assumption (e.g., the width of the intake pipe), 3) running out of fuel (e.g., needing higher flowing injectors, higher flowing pump, etc.), 4) tuning for higher air/fuel, etc.

UPDATE: I just grabbed one of these intakes from Craig at D3. Thanks!!

Guys, if the PCM automagically completely compensated for this, then why would anyone ever need to get a tune? It can only do so much.

The STFT's will only add so much extra fuel to compensate for more air it sees. This is why intialy the car runs a bit leaner when you throw on a CAI, thus producing more power (any why K&N advertises their 20 hp claim). After a while the LTFT's will also change to add more fuel, in additional to the STFT's, richening it up a bit, and bring the A/F ratio down again, more closely to what it should be (at least according to the factory). This is where you are seeing more like 5-10 hp difference.

For the record the tests that I did were on my car when it was mostly stock (with only a catback, and high flow cat's), so it was probabaly around 415ish at the flywheel.

All that I've said doesn;t even take into account that this D3 design sucks the air right in from the hot engine bay, and not from a fresh air source. This is compounded by being in a supercharged application, which is even more sensative to IAT's than a NA engine.

JPJR, if possible, why not do a before and afer dyno a few weeks apart, and put this to rest? I think a lot of people get the plecebo effect from CAI's, as the added sound makes the car sound faster, and the tilt that you get to one side because your wallet is lighter makes you butt dyno register a bit higher.

Here is my dyno results before/after with my CTS-V and an LPE CAI:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ore-after.html

-Chris