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Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, STS 2005: Reactions in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by fallenstarseven These are my feelings: Overall, a big disappointment. Of the previous vehicles adopting the Art+Science theme, ...
  1. #46
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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenstarseven
    These are my feelings:

    Overall, a big disappointment. Of the previous vehicles adopting the Art+Science theme, the XLR is the most successful and the SRX the least successful. To keep the momentum, Cadillac should have carried on with what they did with the show cars--give us different iterations or flavors of the overall design language. The STS clearly fails to take the language another step and doesn't even apply it as well as the CTS, the first vehicle out the door with the new look.

    It's obvious to me that Lutz (or someone) watered down the look.

    The headlight treatment is the weakest element. The lights taper from bottom to top, giving it a static feel that might have been ok on the SRX, which as an SUV needs to look solid and safe. The STS, however, needs to look nimble, rakish, fast, and luxurious. Something a biit narrower that canted inward and tapered from top to bottom, like the Sixteen's headlights, would have been much more distinctive.

    The grill doesn't add much to the package--where are some of the lovely grills we saw on the show cars? It's far too small. This car will look even blander with a mesh V-series grill.

    The body shape, at least what we've been able to see from the spy shots and the one official photo, neither attempts to apply the design language on a softer overall shape, nor carriers it in the opposite direction, progressing with the knife-edge direction it was first shown with. Instead, it looks tamped down and cheap. This looks like the product of one of GM's factories of old, not the product of fresh thinking.

    The old Seville had its own presence, a certain elegance. The new STS looks bland and even a little narrow--it visually doesn't look much larger than the CTS, at least in these photos. There's nothing here to appeal to a BMW or Mercedes or even Lexus driver.

    My bottom line: Huge missed opportunity at a very very important moment in the Cadillac comeback. No wonder they didn't show it at Detroit--they knew they blew it.
    Spoken by a True Ford Enthusiast If your going to drive a car Drive American not some Bull$hit park bench ridin piece of recycled Rice Burnin Lexus, i mean Toyota. You must be unemployed and hate your Ford escort wagon so bad you never wash it :drinker Have you ever heard the saying, Never Judge a Book by it's cover ?
    The STS for 2005 will be one of Cadillacs Top selling cars, and even though you won't be driving one, Just seeing ones tail lights disappear should leave you with a lasting impression.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions



    I been around Mercedes and BMW for a long time and the only thing that was inherently similar with the 3,5, 7, series and the C-, E-, and S-class were the front facial. The bodies were always different from each other, enough to tell the difference between them at first glance. I can easily look at the 5 series and know the difference between it and the 3 and 7 series. With Mercedes, the bodies never did resemble each other. The CLK and SLK may be similar in some ways, but their bodies never resembled each other to the point that it left other people confused with one another. And the E-class Mercedes has a personality all of it's own.

    When I look at the CTS and the STS, the STS seems to be suffering from some sort of identity crisis. Either it appears like a rounded off CTS to some people, or it looks like a Deville to others. The STS, IMO, needs a more aggressive styling than what it received. I know I say this before, but I just can't help but to say it again, I was expecting the STS to look more along the lines of the Cien and Sixteen, or at least like the XLR and CTS. Just looking at it, as it is right now, says Lutz all over it. It's just not what I had expected. When I look at the '05 STS, I'm just left wondering, what is it's purpose in the lineup? Is it the flagship? Is it the entry level to the DTS? When the '92 Seville first debuted, everyone raved at it's looks. To me, that's just what this STS should have done, grab hold of the world's attention with an iron fist.

    I have to agree with Fallenstarseven here: The old Seville had it's very own presence and elegance. I think that when Lutz got involved, they lost that in the interpetation (like they did with the GTO......) with this new STS.

    Maybe it is the photos being taken? But first impressions always seem to linger the longest. I want to like this car, but the body lines just won't let me right now.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    i agree with the above post on the notion that the fronts on those cars (bmw, mercedes) might be similiar but the bodies are compelty differnt that from far away i can tell at first glance. according to some peoples posts on this forum, they had trouble tellin the STS was acutally an STS and not a CTS. THats exactly what we dont need. no one i kno confuses an s class for an e or for a c class or a 3 series bmw for a 5 or a 7, but i have a feeling MANY are goin to confuse the sts for a newer cts.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    try telling apart an older 5series from a 7series from "far away", not too easy. of coarse u can do it with the new 5series because it's too ugly to be compared to the good looking 7. and you can defenately tell apart an STS from a CTS.


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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Caddy Man
    i agree with the above post on the notion that the fronts on those cars (bmw, mercedes) might be similiar
    yeah, the rears are totally different
    Attached Images

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    We as fans of Cadillac will know the difference, but drivers of other brands would not know well enough to tell the CTS and the STS apart at first glance. They'd have to pretty much be on top of the car to tell the difference. The only tell-tale sign difference in the CTS and the STS, are the lines in the CTS, which gives it a much sharper image overall. But if you didn't know that, you'd call the CTS a STS and vice versa.

    Also, from being an owner of past Sevilles, I'd buy the CTS on looks alone. I'm not sold on the watered down looks of the new STS at all. If that was what Cadillac was aiming for, they succeeded. The STS made a name for itself as a luxuary sportscar. Nothing in this new interpetation of the STS suggests such a thing. Other past STS owners aren't exactly won over by the new car as well. If I'm nitpicking it, so be it. I just think they need to improve the looks of it, that's all.

    Lutz must be german for lopped, because all the curves in this STS were lopped off for that "jelly bean" like image.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Lutz also had the designers lower the roof 1" more than their original design.
    I am hoping(praying) that this does not cause the windshield header to be so
    low that I have trouble seeing overhead stoplights.
    I already move the sunvisor over to the side window in both my SRX and the CTSs I have driven.

    Can anybody guess which car company patnented the low windshield header?
    You guessed it, Chrysler with the cab forward LH cars.
    Wonder if Lutz had a hand in those too?

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    I find it interesting that you say the SRX is the least successful expression of the Art and Science design philosophy. The other day while driving home from work, I spotted a loaded black SRX V-8 model. Next thing I knew, I was driving slower just to get a better look, I wasn't even trying to be inconspicuous. The driver of the SRX wasn't fazed at all, no doubt because he was surrounded by admirers on all sides! It was amazing how much attention that vehicle attracted. I think you may be among the minority in your opinion of the SRX's styling.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by SoundAdvantage
    Spoken by a True Ford Enthusiast If your going to drive a car Drive American not some Bull$hit park bench ridin piece of recycled Rice Burnin Lexus, i mean Toyota. You must be unemployed and hate your Ford escort wagon so bad you never wash it :drinker Have you ever heard the saying, Never Judge a Book by it's cover ?
    The STS for 2005 will be one of Cadillacs Top selling cars, and even though you won't be driving one, Just seeing ones tail lights disappear should leave you with a lasting impression.

    Actually, Soundadvantage, I drive a BMW right now. I travel a lot on business and get a chance to drive a lot of different makes, models, and classes of cars, and am definitely not a Ford fan. I am disappointed with the direction BMW is taking--too much technology for technology's sake (iDrive, the active steering in the new 5). I like the look and feel of the new E-class so I'll probably go that route next. I am rooting Caddy on--I want to be able to buy a premium American make in the 5- and E- class. The STS just is not that car, at least not from what I've seen so far. But I don't expect you to really respond to this with anything other than more 8th grade, off-base taunts that miss the mark.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Eddie, I'm starting to see quite a few SRX's around on the Bay Area highways. It has grown on me somewhat. I think it's better looking than the Escalade group, not quite as good looking as the CTS. I'm hoping that maybe the photos of the STS don't capture the crisper angles and lines. Headlights are still a mess. I still don't understand why they didn't keep moving forward with some of the themes in the concept cars. Lack of guts I guess on the design side.

    I like what I'm hearing about continuous upgrades to performance across the range, though.

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gramzster
    I feel the 2005 design is nice, however I as well feel that the headlights are a factor that I do not prefer.

    I was thinking of it, and I think that possibly, they should have incorporated the headlights similar to the current Seville models, as the newer headlights do give it that 'CTS' look.

    Excuse my very crummy photoshop skills, but I tried to combine the 2005 model, with the current headlights, and I think if they DID do that, from the results, it would provide a redesigned model, but still have a little bit of that Seville look to it, and i would REALLY like that.

    Oh well, gotta wait till the model is actually released until I can give my definite opinion.
    well done guy. Gram, that shot you posted should be shared with lutz and his design team at GM. and you should get the royalties. and then everyone can still say, Best of all, its a Cadillac!

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    I'm with the "wait-and-see-it" faction. Any three dimentional object is best judged when seeing it in three dimensions. Also, I agree with the member that wrote that GM publicity shots aren't often very good. (which is odd, but that's another thread.)
    While I'm typing, I'd like to say that, historically, any new Seville (now STS) has been quite a departure from the model it replaced. The original '76, the '80, the '86, the '92. (the interior of the '98), all leaps beyond thier predecessors. I feel that if Cadillac handles it well (un-bundling options for a start!) and not building too many fully optioned Northstar's at the beginning, the STS will bring the brand to a new, perhaps more conservative audience. Compared to its competition, the new STS is a very compelling choice. Think about it: the current LS?, the "Dame-Edna" 5 series, the E class? As a design, the STS will equit itself very well among these cars and, I feel, best a few of them!

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    Well for my 2 cents...I agree with most- the '05 STS should have looked different, but yet carried on some elements of the '92-'97, and '98 to present.

    The '05 looks like a bloated CTS from the photos. What works on the CTS doesn't seem to on the larger car. It makes the car look small, narrow and tall...everything an STS shouldn't be. I do like the fact it is RWD, but again, that will be lost if it looks like and CTS on steroids. Why should I pay what an STS costs to have it look like a smaller, less expensive model? And whoever said earlier that the Seville was never the best looking Cadillac in the line? Uh, since '92 it certainly has been. The bustle back and the other up to '92 looked like pimp-mobiles, but the Seville in either SLS or STS form has been the best looking Caddy hands down for 12 years running! Better get them eyes checked. Unless you just love the "old man" Devilles...I do like the DTS's...as more of a sleeper than anything. I always get challenged in either of my STS's by Beemers and Benz drivers out on the highway...I just wish my STS's were rear drive but I do love the styling of the current and past models...as someone else said earlier, those Sevilles had their own presence and elegance AND sportiness. Except for those with that stupid damn fake convertible top ones! I feel like taking a Sawzall to the damn thing and putting it out of its misery!!! Yuckkk!!! The only people driving those things are Pimps and 90 year old Floridians with the HUGE Re-Entry Shield Sunglasses that fit over their regular eyeglasses!! Those things are putrid!!! At least the Pimps put on the 13" Daytons and have killer sound systems in theirs LOL!!!

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    well i saw another STS (second one) in detroit today, but this time it was parked so i got a up close all around look....it looks to much like a CTS! i'll say it again. I even showed my freinds and they said it looks like a larger CTS. It reminded my of those CTS that come with custom 18 inch wheels from the dealership. I dont find anythign special about this car, im sorry to say. It is my opinion, but i am basing it on one i saw in real life with my own eyes (black color). It dosnt look bad, but i dont find anyhitng special about it, they should have distinguished it a little more. just cuz the cts is successful dosnt give them a lisnce to put that treatment to all the other cars. and to those that justify it cuz bmw and mercedes have similiar designs(which they dont!!!!, except for the older 7 and 5 series, i can see where u guys would think they look the same from the back) why does that mean we have to follow those companies?! That is no excuse. to me, the STS has truly lost its presence. It is just a CTS on steroids now. There is nothin cuttin edge about the design since we all saw it 3 years ago in the form of the CTS, they should have at least kept the horizontal headlamps!!

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    Re: STS 2005: Reactions

    New member here--not even close to having money to buy any new car.
    College...


    Anyhow, the 2005 STS looks OKAY buy itself, and would look damn good by any standards, but...


    Because of the CTS it almost looks like a copy.

    Also, it reminds me of an Acura TL or Honda Accord--mainly between the A and C pillars (from roofline to floor), especially for the "Honda"-brand Accord because the trunk snubs down [for whatever strange reason they decided to do that]

    I like the photoshop of the 2004 Seville STS lights onto the new model. While the styling could be more jagged/sharper like the CTS (but not copying it), the lights alone would make a huge difference in people's perception of this new model.

    At least creating some sort of shorter headlights with some length of wrap-around would relate it to the previous Seville.


    (BTW, the longer wheelbase is the only thing that makes this car look long. You can see that the front wheels are closer to the bumper [do they exist these days] of the car compared to the 2004 model.)

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