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Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath.... in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Cadillac is working on the first major change to its logo in more than a decade, pruning away the classic ...
  1. #1
    Subsailor613's Avatar
    Subsailor613 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Question Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Cadillac is working on the first major change to its logo in more than a decade, pruning away the classic laurel wreaths that surround its crest, several sources told Automotive News.

    The modified emblem is likely to appear on a concept vehicle that Cadillac plans to show next month at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance in California. The redesigned badge would appear on production cars no earlier than the 2015 model year, and the plans could change, the sources said.


    A Cadillac spokesman confirmed the plans to show a concept at Pebble Beach next month but declined to comment on a badge redesign.
    The plan to discard the wreaths was prompted in part by feedback from potential customers, the sources said. "Every time it was tested, the reaction was almost universally negative," a Cadillac insider told Automotive News, adding: "The wreath is seen as outdated and obsolete."


    That's an image that Cadillac has been working hard to shed with successive generations of products aimed at younger buyers.
    DO NOT shoot the messenger...

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    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, chrome it
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    ............ BUT, "Cadillac" is no longer a limited production luxury vehicle - it is a grossly mass-produced GM product aimed at the "upscale" yuppie crowd.

    The bean counters will produce what they feel appeals to the mass market - "discriminating buyers" can shift to Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes, Rolls - depending on the state/fatness of your portfolio. "Cadillac" is now nothing more than a re-badged GM cookie cutter vehicle. Name a 2014 "Cadillac" that would turn heads in front of the Waldorf Astoria. (24's and neon lights aside)

    The dealer-packaged or special order V- cars are in small new car demand and even at that they are few and far between - and getting scarcer - but those are anything BUT a "Cadillac". Build a tricked out Chevrolet Impala SSV, price it accordingly, and you'll need 3 production lines to keep up.

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    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    ............ BUT, "Cadillac" is no longer a limited production luxury vehicle - it is a grossly mass-produced GM product aimed at the "upscale" yuppie crowd.

    The bean counters will produce what they feel appeals to the mass market - "discriminating buyers" can shift to Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes, Rolls - depending on the state/fatness of your portfolio. "Cadillac" is now nothing more than a re-badged GM cookie cutter vehicle. Name a 2014 "Cadillac" that would turn heads in front of the Waldorf Astoria. (24's and neon lights aside)

    The dealer-packaged or special order V- cars are in small new car demand and even at that they are few and far between - and getting scarcer - but those are anything BUT a "Cadillac". Build a tricked out Chevrolet Impala SSV, price it accordingly, and you'll need 3 production lines to keep up.
    seriously?

    when was Cadillac know to be a limited production luxury luxury vehicle?

    seems to me they( Cadillac -GM)
    1. Have gotten out of the market of high lease sales/fleet sales cars with very low residual/resale values...ie...STS and DTS
    2. Trying to chase some of the market that the other brands have taken away from them in the entry to mid level luxury market

    Cadillac( or any American manufacturer) does not play in the full size /ultra luxury market

    3. So they go after a buyer/price point demographic that they think they can get

    Its truly a different era when Hyundai( with the Equus) Offers a higher end vehicle than Cadillac

    I cant even name a 2004..or 1994, for that matter, Cadillac that would have turned heads at the Waldorf Astoria
    Thats a complete other price point demographic that Cadillac has not played in

    Unless they build an ultra luxury sedan with a state of the art V8-v12 and loaded with new technology...and ofcourse priced at north of $100K

    We will see if and when that happens

    As for the souped up Impala filling 3 production lines

    Not sure about that....according to the latest Motor trend where they test the new Impala...70% of the older body style went to fleet/rental buyers

    Not exactly the numbers that make a car seem very desirable by the public or adds much to the manufacturers bottom line profits


    Warren

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    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    It takes a lot to turn heads in front of a Waldorf Astoria. The new Bentley continentals have a very civilian appearance. What turns heads about that car is the price. A 7 series BMW doesn't get a second look unless someone in the know sees the 760 badge on it. That sends it well into 6 digit territory. Charles I absolutely agree with what you say about how cadillac needs to build that ultra luxury sedan, offer a v12 option and price it well north of 100k.

    ----------

    Although I believe cadillac has the ability to make that car turn heads by its appearance.

    ----------

    Oh and losing the wreath. How much money has been and is still being spent on surveying about it, thinking about it, having meetings about it, etc? Could we have put that money towards making the cars better?
    I don't like change and I'm not happy we lose the wreath but I can see how the wreath can be seen as too "traditional" and old.

    Here's the thing and I know I always bring up the ats because its the newest thing. Automotive press is raving about the driving dynamics of the thing, but it's engines fail to compete. And now we're toying with the idea of the ttv6 for the ats-v. 430 HP? Even with 450, cadillac is bringing a brand new competitor to the m3 into the world that immediately fails to compete. Brand new ats-v can't outrun the m3. Look at the new e63. Smokes the dog crap out of the cts-v by a half second to 60. This is the kind of lead the ats-v needs on the m3 when it breaks through the gates.

    If they focused on the little things they could keep the wreath and replace the crest with a smiley face and still move cars. They need to become the undisputed best in order to erase their past and trump favoritism in the automotive media. Whether we like it or not this kind of stuff matters.
    mckellyb likes this.

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    amunderdog is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezassssssssss = Our newest kitten typed that. Do not know why she loves keyboards.

    "That's an image that Cadillac has been working hard to shed with successive generations of products aimed at younger buyers".
    And younger markets.
    GM is courting emerging market buyers thus another nail in Americas coffin.

    Over the past decade, the demand and hence the manufacturing landscape in the auto world has begun shifting from the developed to the emerging world.
    http://articles.economictimes.indiat...obile-industry
    Guess that reads as the 90's new Cadillac designs (NorthStar - DeVille - Seville- Eldorado) were the last built for the American market.

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    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    It takes a lot to turn heads in front of a Waldorf Astoria. The new Bentley continentals have a very civilian appearance. What turns heads about that car is the price. A 7 series BMW doesn't get a second look unless someone in the know sees the 760 badge on it. That sends it well into 6 digit territory. Charles I absolutely agree with what you say about how cadillac needs to build that ultra luxury sedan, offer a v12 option and price it well north of 100k.

    ----------

    Although I believe cadillac has the ability to make that car turn heads by its appearance.

    ----------

    Oh and losing the wreath. How much money has been and is still being spent on surveying about it, thinking about it, having meetings about it, etc? Could we have put that money towards making the cars better?
    I don't like change and I'm not happy we lose the wreath but I can see how the wreath can be seen as too "traditional" and old.

    Here's the thing and I know I always bring up the ats because its the newest thing. Automotive press is raving about the driving dynamics of the thing, but it's engines fail to compete. And now we're toying with the idea of the ttv6 for the ats-v. 430 HP? Even with 450, cadillac is bringing a brand new competitor to the m3 into the world that immediately fails to compete. Brand new ats-v can't outrun the m3. Look at the new e63. Smokes the dog crap out of the cts-v by a half second to 60. This is the kind of lead the ats-v needs on the m3 when it breaks through the gates.

    If they focused on the little things they could keep the wreath and replace the crest with a smiley face and still move cars. They need to become the undisputed best in order to erase their past and trump favoritism in the automotive media. Whether we like it or not this kind of stuff matters.
    a 7 series doesnt get a second look?
    I would have to disagree with that...I really think the general public...and especially anyone anywhere close to the well heeled crowd knows what any of the ultra luxury cars looks like from a mile away

    Lets think about this...as slowly as the Germans designs change and as much as they REALLY like their family resemblance

    I bet you could be locked away for 20 years and not see any cars...then you see a Benz or BMW and you know what it is

    Think about it

    take a 1991 BMW 5 series, 1991 Mercedes E class and a 1991 STS...then take a 2011 version of all three

    the German have many of the same styling( and driving experience) cues...but how different is the STS?

    As for the Logo....really to me its like when they dropped "deVille" because of the perceived old person, out of date aura
    I think the truth of the matter was that "deville" buyer was now in a Lexus

    Its take a LONG time for luxury markets to shift ...unless you just happen to come in and fill a needed niche like Lexus did 30 years ago and like Hyundai seems to be doing in the last 3 years

    Otherwise..it took Cadillac years to build their reputations...and years for it to change
    And look how Mercedes and BMW took off in the 80's and have both reached out, recently, to their non-traditional North American base with more entry level cars

    But bottom line...its all about the $$. Whatever they can make to sell( at a profit) they will

    These low volume highly discounted cars ..XLR...or "red-headed" step child lease return cars....STS...or rental fleet specials...DTS

    Do the math...they gotta go where the money is...and it was not there in those three


    Warren

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    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    I don't think anyone is disputing that BMWs are easily recognizable as BMWs even if you don't see the badge.

    What I'm saying is that parked among the high end cars that frequent a Waldorf Astoria, a BMW 7 series does not get a second look. It gets lost among the Lincoln town car taxis and just doesn't turn heads. Spend some time in NYC you'll see s550s and BMW 7 series everywhere. They're not special and their designs are not stunning enough to turn heads. Believe me when I see one here in Fayetteville, I double back. You just don't see them here. But in front of a W-A? Forget it. As a matter of fact, in NYC you will frequently see (brand new) s class and 7 series being used for livery purposes.

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    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Btw I've long thought that with led lighting becoming so prevalent, it would only be a matter of time before someone incorporated it into the emblem. Well it happened. Just watching the MB commercial where they have the ml, c class, and e class in the heat testing chamber thing and it appears that the e class has an optional illuminated front emblem. Some may find it tacky but it's actually not bad at all. I guess caddy's emblem being multicolored gives them an opportunity to follow suit without it being obvious that they copied mb.

    ----------

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-uIi6QLisM

    Short commercial about the illuminated star.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Il5-uuSXpDk

    Minute and a half promo about the illuminated star.

    Both worth your time. Almost makes you upset cadillac has changed it's logo 7484726 times.

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    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    I don't think anyone is disputing that BMWs are easily recognizable as BMWs even if you don't see the badge.

    What I'm saying is that parked among the high end cars that frequent a Waldorf Astoria, a BMW 7 series does not get a second look. It gets lost among the Lincoln town car taxis and just doesn't turn heads. Spend some time in NYC you'll see s550s and BMW 7 series everywhere. They're not special and their designs are not stunning enough to turn heads. Believe me when I see one here in Fayetteville, I double back. You just don't see them here. But in front of a W-A? Forget it. As a matter of fact, in NYC you will frequently see (brand new) s class and 7 series being used for livery purposes.
    interesting...as the last time I was in NYC I noticed a few things

    First off..a lot of people dont even drive in Manhattan...so yes its taxi city

    but interestingly enough...when you do see a valet lot its like all you see are 100K plus cars and I recall quite a few S classes and 7 series...along with Range Rovers and few drop top Bentley as well

    as far as stunning design...that's clearly subjective to your opinion

    what I will say is that it seems that many must find them stunning to drop the amount of coin they cost

    Go to any large city..where there is wealth. I agree that you will see a lot of them driving every day...Dallas..Atlanta..Los Angeles

    I disagree with you...I think those type of cars are VERY noticeable by the people that live there
    Despite the fact that there are many around

    Does an STS turns heads( or get front row valet) in city like that?...never


    Warren

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Btw I've long thought that with led lighting becoming so prevalent, it would only be a matter of time before someone incorporated it into the emblem. Well it happened. Just watching the MB commercial where they have the ml, c class, and e class in the heat testing chamber thing and it appears that the e class has an optional illuminated front emblem. Some may find it tacky but it's actually not bad at all. I guess caddy's emblem being multicolored gives them an opportunity to follow suit without it being obvious that they copied mb.

    ----------

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-uIi6QLisM

    Short commercial about the illuminated star.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Il5-uuSXpDk

    Minute and a half promo about the illuminated star.

    Both worth your time. Almost makes you upset cadillac has changed it's logo 7484726 times.
    you should take some time and read the spec sheet on the new 2014 S class
    To say it was a technological marvel would be an understatement...automatic everything...
    One of the highlights I saw is that the car has the ability to air freshen the cabin automatically...multiple built in cameras that monitor the road ahead of you and have the ability to take control of the car the should it see eminent danger...An extremely complicated suspension system ..that from the spec sheet...took a team of rocket scientists to engineer
    Mercedes really brought their A game in regard to technological innovation...and I guess I understand in the race with BMW and to a certain extent the large Lexus since its joined the $100K club as well

    ofcourse..as I was reading the spec sheet I wondered also..

    who is going to be able to fix something this complex when its 10 years old?...and how much will it cost to repair?

    The last Benz I owned...a 1992 s class...had a passive suspension and it rode the best of any car I have owned
    So... in a model 22 years newer I wonder how much better it could be...LOL

    Another thing I miss...and perhaps its an import thing
    My 1992 S class had auto closing doors and trunk....something really handy in tight parking spaces
    Audi, BMW and Lexus have them as well now as well

    Why didnt Cadillac ever use features like this?

    seems to be a standard item on a few brands now

    As for LED's...I think Audi came out with LED headlight a few years ago on the A8....?


    Warren

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    amunderdog is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Warren[COLOR="Silver"]


    Why didnt Cadillac ever use features like this?

    seems to be a standard item on a few brands now

    As for LED's...I think Audi came out with LED headlight a few years ago on the A8....?


    Warren[/QUOTE]

    Guess I am getting old.
    Americans had never embraced complicated over engineered vehicles.
    That was Cadillac's slice of market.
    A vehicle that was affordable luxury, and not so wiz bang it could not be understood or repaired just about anywhere.

  12. #11
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Believe me I'm not saying an sts commands a second look over an s class or 7 series by any means. Although I will say that a couple of weeks ago I was at the intercontinental hotel in the heart of Boston for a few days and what did I see among the bentleys, ferraris, porches, 7 series, s classes parked right by the valet booth? An STS-V. Nice.

    Also yes, the 7 series and a class is everywhere in NYC which is probably why they don't get a second look.

    These people who buy brand new s class and 7 series want the top of the line sedan. Tell me, what other options do they have?? My buddy's father has a 2003 s500 he bought brand new and he bought a 2010 s550 brand new. He hates the ride on the 550. What other options did he have when buying a new large sedan. And he's not an SUV guy. As a matter of fact he has always loved Cadillacs as a kid and as soon as they drop the large RWD sedan it'll be his.

    Bottom line is when you're around supercars, Aston martins, maseratis, you lose BMWs and benzes fast. Funny thing is that even porches get lost in the mix.

    Oh and believe me I've read plenty on the new s class. I subscribe to all the magazines. It's very impressive what went into that car and it is kind of scary to think about how it will be fixed years from now.

    What do you mean automatic closing doors? You hit a button and they close?? See the 1957 and 58 eldorado brougham. There are so many things that GM created that they never capitalized on and it pisses me off. Actually, they were the first with LED tail lights.

    Nevertheless I do agree that these days it's mb that's doing the innovating. Infiniti as well. I believe they pioneered a lot of the driver awareness stuff like SBZA and LDWS. Hopefully cadillac surprises us but when I'm reading these articles about the new s class I can't help but think this is way out of cadillac's league.

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    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    [QUOTE=amunderdog;10624473]Warren[COLOR="Silver"]


    Why didnt Cadillac ever use features like this?

    seems to be a standard item on a few brands now

    As for LED's...I think Audi came out with LED headlight a few years ago on the A8....?


    Warren
    Quote Originally Posted by amunderdog View Post
    Warren[COLOR="Silver"]

    Guess I am getting old.
    Americans had never embraced complicated over engineered vehicles.
    That was Cadillac's slice of market.
    A vehicle that was affordable luxury, and not so wiz bang it could not be understood or repaired just about anywhere.
    really...and that is why the United States ( as a percentage of the population) is the largest market in the world for both BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class cars?

    This is the market that is sweet spot for them..if you didnt know that


    Warren

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Believe me I'm not saying an sts commands a second look over an s class or 7 series by any means. Although I will say that a couple of weeks ago I was at the intercontinental hotel in the heart of Boston for a few days and what did I see among the bentleys, ferraris, porches, 7 series, s classes parked right by the valet booth? An STS-V. Nice.

    Also yes, the 7 series and a class is everywhere in NYC which is probably why they don't get a second look.

    These people who buy brand new s class and 7 series want the top of the line sedan. Tell me, what other options do they have?? My buddy's father has a 2003 s500 he bought brand new and he bought a 2010 s550 brand new. He hates the ride on the 550. What other options did he have when buying a new large sedan. And he's not an SUV guy. As a matter of fact he has always loved Cadillacs as a kid and as soon as they drop the large RWD sedan it'll be his.

    Bottom line is when you're around supercars, Aston martins, maseratis, you lose BMWs and benzes fast. Funny thing is that even porches get lost in the mix.

    Oh and believe me I've read plenty on the new s class. I subscribe to all the magazines. It's very impressive what went into that car and it is kind of scary to think about how it will be fixed years from now.

    What do you mean automatic closing doors? You hit a button and they close?? See the 1957 and 58 eldorado brougham. There are so many things that GM created that they never capitalized on and it pisses me off. Actually, they were the first with LED tail lights.

    Nevertheless I do agree that these days it's mb that's doing the innovating. Infiniti as well. I believe they pioneered a lot of the driver awareness stuff like SBZA and LDWS. Hopefully cadillac surprises us but when I'm reading these articles about the new s class I can't help but think this is way out of cadillac's league.
    I still disagree with you on what turns heads and fills valet spots....I see a lot of valet spots filled with 3 pointed stars and twin kidney grills in the bigger cities

    Also...there is that one thing you keep forgetting....what the market is actually buying in numbers...I frankly see a lot more CTS type V than STS-type V

    Not sure what market the STS-V was for..it didnt have the suspension to go after the germans performance cars...so it was fast cruiser

    With the CTS-type V...I have to say GM got serious and from what I understand( I have never driven one) came up with a car that can dance with the better sport sedans out there
    Mercedes had that Maybach division with cars upwards of $300K...and shut it down

    My 1992 S class doors and trunk closed when it touched a contact...it kept you from having to try to slam what was a VERY heavy door on an 1990's era S class
    I havent driven the latest S class...2007 to 2013...though I am sure what they use now is far more sophisticated than my 1992...as I assume that technology has come a long ways in 21 years

    I disagree with your point on a second look..or should I say its relative
    If a 100K car doesn't get a second look from you...its likely that you are so wealthy that only your maid would drive one...and surely means that you wouldn't be caught in anything cheaper

    Growing up in Dallas...as I did, it was said that the wealthiest people( old oil money) bought their "help" a Cadillac to run errands, go to the grocery etc...while the husband and wife had matching S classes. While that was a bit of an exaggeration..there is some truth to that story at the time in that market

    As for luxury that is reasonable and not so full of "where can I find a rocket scientist to fix this"..I am big fan of both the Hyundai genesis and Equus

    That new s class is definitely a technological marvel....the list of innovations and firsts is a couple of pages long
    but again...I ask the question....what happens in 10 years ?
    If you look at the 2000-2006 s class....they havent faired well in resale.
    Many say the market didnt like the "cost cutter" S class..as some called it, and perhaps that has something to do with the fact that they can be bought..relatively cheaply
    The 2007( and newer car) seems to be doing a little better in value retention.....still not as good as the full size Lexus LS though


    Warren

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    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Certain 100k cars don't get a second look from me because 1. Their designs are not eye catching (subjective) or 2. They are as common as Honda civics in certain higher end areas and happen to be frequently used as taxis (objective).

    Nothing to do with me being so rich that I'm wiping my ass with $100 bills and I gag at the mere thought of a short wheelbase 7 series.

    Now a 7 series m series car or a s class amg? That'll catch my eye. Also, if I happen to catch a 760 or s600 badge, ill double back. Ill wonder who's driving it. But that's just for people "in the know" because someone not like you and I who doesn't know the difference won't notice the subtle changes of a 600 vs a 550 and won't realize a v12 lurks underneath the hood.

    Anyway we're not going to agree here. Moving on.

    So your 92 had the soft close doors. Didn't realize cars had it that long ago. Cool. My 79 coupe Deville has the soft close trunk and that technology goes back to at least the 50s at GM. Not certain about the doors though.

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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    1. Their designs are not eye catching
    Agreed, there are few $100K plus cars that are visually appealing on their exterior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    2. They are as common as Honda civics in certain higher end areas and happen to be frequently used as taxis
    Agreed again, there are a lot of taxi / chauffeur / rentals for some of these $100K rides. (Seen many at High School Prom in my area over the years).
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Now a 7 series m series car or a s class amg? That'll catch my eye. Also, if I happen to catch a 760 or s600 badge, ill double back.
    V12 :grin: 7 series must always be a long wheelbase in my mind. (Same with the STS it SHOULD have been long wheelbase like the SLS)
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    So your 92 had the soft close doors. Didn't realize cars had it that long ago. Cool.
    That is a nice feature that Cadillac has failed to incorporate into their cars.
    I feel that this is due to people breaking the mechanisms (or service fearing this and doing a lot of costly warranty work).
    Just like the trunk on the Caddys that have the pulldown mechanism, how many do you know that have been broken due to trunklid slamming?
    Guy.Seminerio likes this.

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    mckellyb is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac may change logo, remove wreath....

    Man!

    Now I want to surf CL for W140 600SEL's!

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