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Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; The Acura may be more expensisive but is much less desireable in my view. It feels smaller, rides rougher, is ...
  1. #16
    EChas3's Avatar
    EChas3 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    The Acura may be more expensisive but is much less desireable in my view. It feels smaller, rides rougher, is less comfortable and frankly looks too much like the Accord for my taste. Obviously, the market disagrees with me, but isn't that the point of owning a car one feels is an outstanding value?

  2. #17
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    Exactly. Here's that blue book crap again. Let me choose between a used sts and Acura rlx with like miles and features and I won't ask you what their current value is because that's not what determines whether I like the car or not. The Acura is ugly (subjective, yes but you can only argue so much for the Acura until you hit the ugly fwd proportions wall) and is front wheel drive which affects the look and drivability, even though you can get it in awd. Compare Acura to Buick.

  3. #18
    carter's_sts is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Agreed. They seem "cheap" to me. People love the foreign cars so the price stays up. And people love reliability (which I get), but no thanks for me.

    Boy this thread went off track.
    Guy.Seminerio likes this.

  4. #19
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    Quote Originally Posted by EChas3 View Post
    The Acura may be more expensisive but is much less desireable in my view. It feels smaller, rides rougher, is less comfortable and frankly looks too much like the Accord for my taste. Obviously, the market disagrees with me, but isn't that the point of owning a car one feels is an outstanding value?
    LOL...we are not talking ones personal taste

    We are talking what the market will bear....

    usually when people use the word value they mean $$$

    if you are talking pure value...and you know this as well

    I will use the RL vs the STS

    The Acura was less to buy new than the STS( V8 AWD).....4 years ( or more) later...the Acura is worth more

    So...from a value standpoint..the Acura actually will cost you far less than the STS

    One could get into reliability...but I will just use the car prices to keep it simple

    On a more than 4 years old basis the STS will absolutely cost you less to buy than the Acura...unfortunately that bad resale phenomenon of Cadillac of the past haunts the STS. This also does not help the longevity of the cars as they still cost the same amount to fix as their counterparts
    Low resale and high repair costs make a car get to the "buy here pay here" lots and junkyard quickly
    Jaguar is another good example of that

    As i noted the other day...STSs with near $70K stickers( in 2006) are now going for $13K at dealers in good shape and with average miles for the model year
    Now I know the stickers of these cars not worth the paper they are printed as no retail buyer paid anywhere near the sticker price
    But lets say transaction price was $55K...and for the dealer to be selling the car for an asking price of $12,900 means wholesale( or trade in) is about $10K....which puts private sale at about $11,000
    Thats a very steep fall

    BTW...based on what I paid 4 years ago...$19K for a 4 year old 1SG AWD
    I am not really happy with the fact that the values continued to drop like they did..as I thought these cars were at the bottom of their depreciation scale. I was hoping my car was worth $12K worst case. My balloon has had some air removed from it as I have done some research on pricing
    but..it is what is it

    as for the RL riding rougher than a STS V8 AWD...really?..its been about 4 years since I drove one but I dont remember that aspect of its ride as well
    I actually liked the fact the Nav and VR worked well as well as the unit I drove had the run flat tires with the automatic emergency breaking feature
    I do recall liking the Infiniti M better though...for the simple reason that it rode more "german" than anything but the germans themselves
    Both cars were between $6-8K more than the STS...a substantial amount in buying a car of this price range and also due to the fact that I was trying to be as close to a cash transaction as possible

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Exactly. Here's that blue book crap again. Let me choose between a used sts and Acura rlx with like miles and features and I won't ask you what their current value is because that's not what determines whether I like the car or not. The Acura is ugly (subjective, yes but you can only argue so much for the Acura until you hit the ugly fwd proportions wall) and is front wheel drive which affects the look and drivability, even though you can get it in awd. Compare Acura to Buick.
    it really doesnt matter

    Its like selling a house in the "right vs wrong" neighborhood

    You can pay what you want...though I really find it hard to believe you would pay above market

    When its time to sell though you will receive the market price

    BTW...an Acura RL....2005-2012 is an AWD ONLY vehicle

  5. #20
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    An awd vehicle based on a fwd platform giving it hideous, very un-luxury car like fwd proportions. Ill pass on the "luxury" car who's front wheels are UNDER me as opposed to pushed out towards the front of the car. If someone truly desires something they will be willing to buy for over market value. This is why for example a 1970 chevelle 454 in good condition sells for so much. But if it was up to Kelly and her blue book that car would go for 800 bucks.

  6. #21
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    An awd vehicle based on a fwd platform giving it hideous, very un-luxury car like fwd proportions. Ill pass on the "luxury" car who's front wheels are UNDER me as opposed to pushed out towards the front of the car. If someone truly desires something they will be willing to buy for over market value. This is why for example a 1970 chevelle 454 in good condition sells for so much. But if it was up to Kelly and her blue book that car would go for 800 bucks.
    then you truly must have hated the previous generation STS and the last few DTS's , Devilles of the previous 30 years

    Your classic car scenario is not a comparable.....look at at old Mercedes Gull wing that goes for more than 100K...and thats one in "so-so" condition

    I am not trying to debate subjective points...those are what they are

    I am just using dollars and cents that are easily verifiable


    Warren

  7. #22
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    The old gullwing's value is based on the demand for it. It's worth what people are willing to pay. That's th true value of something. That's why I've been able to sell my previous cars for above kbb. People saw the car and loved it. They were willing to pay a certain amount.

  8. #23
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    The old gullwing's value is based on the demand for it. It's worth what people are willing to pay. That's th true value of something. That's why I've been able to sell my previous cars for above kbb. People saw the car and loved it. They were willing to pay a certain amount.
    completely agree and another reason why a classic car is not at all a comparable

    and to bring then thread back to cadillacs...The market is why the STS is worth what it is

    Interesting that you say about KBB...I have NEVER paid book...

    I dont place a cars worth on that...I do a market survey and see what I can find being advertised

    Those three cars I found the other day at the Cadillac dealer...I think the price reflects market price...not KBB

    That being said...the cost of a used STS is still the same ratio vs the competition..no matter what source you use

    KBB has my car at $15,213.00 private party value for an 05 v8 1SG AWD with Acc/HUD white diamond 71000 miles...private party value
    There is no way in he*& my car is worth that much...several deals out there at a dealership for less money than that

    Just another reason I dont use KBB as any type of litmus test


    Warren

  9. #24
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    When you say there's no way your car is worth the 15,xxx are you saying it's more or less because I have no idea where you're going with that one.

  10. #25
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    When you say there's no way your car is worth the 15,xxx are you saying it's more or less because I have no idea where you're going with that one.
    I wish it was worth that

    but I tend to be very realistic and assume everyone does their due diligence on large purchases like homes and cars


    Warren

  11. #26
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    I sold my 2007 sts v8, no HUD, had the 18 inch wheels, black, nav for 17,500. This is in April of this year. I was in no rush to sell and ended up selling in about a month and a half. Got a few bites so I didn't lower the price from what I knew to be above KBB. I realize this may not be typical but someone saw it, fell in love with it, and was willing to put down the money I was asking for it just so they didn't lose out on it. This person was passionate about the car. Loved the look, drove it, loved how it drove. His desire for the car is what determined the value of it. A gullwing Benz, a 58 eldorado brougham with the stainless steel roof, a freakin 79 coupe Deville, a 2007 sts. I get the first two are "classics" but where is the line drawn. The statement I made which was that the value is determined by what people are willing to pay applies to the "classics" just as well as it applied to my sts that I sold. One car may be valued because its rare, or because Elvis owned one, another is valued because the guy who saw it fell in love with it and was willing to pay a certain amount.
    Listen this is going nowhere because we're arguing completely different things. I get it market value is market value and I agree the best way to determine that is to see what others are being sold for in the same area, etc.

    ----------

    Ill tell you what though, if you were to sell your car right now, I'd put it up for 17. You'd get plenty of bites and you'd eventually hook one. If someone tells you the kbb is 15,xxx you tell them this isn't the car for you.

  12. #27
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    I sold my 2007 sts v8, no HUD, had the 18 inch wheels, black, nav for 17,500. This is in April of this year. I was in no rush to sell and ended up selling in about a month and a half. Got a few bites so I didn't lower the price from what I knew to be above KBB. I realize this may not be typical but someone saw it, fell in love with it, and was willing to put down the money I was asking for it just so they didn't lose out on it. This person was passionate about the car. Loved the look, drove it, loved how it drove. His desire for the car is what determined the value of it. A gullwing Benz, a 58 eldorado brougham with the stainless steel roof, a freakin 79 coupe Deville, a 2007 sts. I get the first two are "classics" but where is the line drawn. The statement I made which was that the value is determined by what people are willing to pay applies to the "classics" just as well as it applied to my sts that I sold. One car may be valued because its rare, or because Elvis owned one, another is valued because the guy who saw it fell in love with it and was willing to pay a certain amount.
    Listen this is going nowhere because we're arguing completely different things. I get it market value is market value and I agree the best way to determine that is to see what others are being sold for in the same area, etc.

    ----------

    Ill tell you what though, if you were to sell your car right now, I'd put it up for 17. You'd get plenty of bites and you'd eventually hook one. If someone tells you the kbb is 15,xxx you tell them this isn't the car for you.
    You are talking about a rare/atypical situation and I am talking market value

    two very different things

    Any vehicle on the road can be sold for above or below book...and likely has
    Average market price still remains the same for the vehicle


    Classics are a different animal...there is a lot more going into that valuation and far higher spread in selling pricing..usually depending on how original the car is and how well the restoration was done.
    Thousands and sometimes tens of thousands differentiate selling prices. You are also talking about a car that is likely not bought as a daily driver. Its neither bought as a restoration project or as a show car

    There is not nearly as many factors in valuating an STS and its not even close to the same situation

    Its like selling a house in a typical sub division in the United States compared to selling a house in a resort area where people only typically spend part of the year in the area...two very different scenarios and two very different marketing factors

    I think I would be somewhat foolish to ask $17K for my car...when there are a few others within 100 miles that are equipped the same for thousands less at a Cadillac dealer
    Using your scenario you just throw something out there and hope it gets a bite

    is that the way you buy a car as well?


    Warren

  13. #28
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    What drives the price of the house in the resort area? What people are willing to pay. What is the definition of market value? What people are generally paying for something. I don't think we're disagreeing there.

    I was looking for a black 2008+ STS-V. Never dreamed I'd find a rare 2009 less than two hours from me. I knew I wanted the car and I knew I wouldn't find one like it just about anywhere, let alone that close. So I didn't have much power at the dealer. Even though he didn't know what was in my head, if I tried to talk him down too much (and I absolutely did talk the price down) he could say no thanks. Then I'm in a bad spot because I'm trying to "nickel and dime" him knowing good and well I'm willing to take the car for asking price. AND that I'm not willing to walk away without the car and let someone else walk away with my baby. Believe me I understand this is the WORST possible scenario a car buyer could be in. And also, I FULLY understand that this story completely supports your argument. Not looking good for me here.

    Lets make it worse for me. When I was buying my 07 STS, I was looking for a 07+ V8, black, 18 inch rims. I was balancing price with distance from where I live. There were a few options. I went with the best balance of distance and price. Still making arguments against myself here.

    BUT!! If there was only one STS, 07+v black, V8, 18 inch rims, I'd have less power. I'd be willing to pay more because there were no other alternatives. The value of that particular would have been determined by how much I wanted it. But I get that doesn't have anything to do with market value.

    So, Warren, you win. Hahaha sucks to lose but it's worse being hard headed.

    ----------

    The value of that particular CAR. I left "car" out.

  14. #29
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: I bought the 06 STS 2 days ago

    I win?..ok?

    LOL...you hit the nail on the head...."what people are generally willing to pay for something"....keywords "generally willing"

    that is exactly what I am talking about...not some isolated and unique cases

    Not sure why you are going on with that tangent

    When i make statements about used car values that is what I am talking about...what the market is "generally willing to pay for something"

    As for the STS the market is "generally willing" to pay a much lower price than some of the luxury competitors on the used car market

    One can always hope to find that buyer that will pay more for exactly the item they are looking for

    As a seller..you hope to find that unique situation

    Sadly...99% of the time I dont think it happens...you are stuck with the average market buyer


    Warren

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