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Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, STS buying advice in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Guy I know 08 got the di for the cts. But in 08 and 09 there was such a thing ...
  1. #46
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Guy I know 08 got the di for the cts. But in 08 and 09 there was such a thing as a 3.6 WITHOUT DI. that's a fact. What I was saying about 2010 is that they dropped the 3.6 non DI as an option for the CTS. That's not debatable it's fact. What is debatable here is whether the changes gm made to the 3.6DI for the CTS in 2010 in order to cure timing chain issues was also applied to 3.6DI in the STS. I think you misunderstood me.

  2. #47
    curtc's Avatar
    curtc is online now OCD - Obsessive Cadillac Disorder
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    The DI 3.6 in the 08+ STS/CTS is still known to use oil and develop timing chain slack...The head tech at my local GM dealer said they do multiple chain replacements per week, on DI and non-DI 3.6's, and that he would NEVER own one.
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  3. #48
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Guys look I'm not saying the di or non di 3.6 are different in whether they have issues or not. I don't know how much clearer I can be. In 2010 the timing chain issue was corrected on the cadillac CTS's 3.6L DI engine. What is in question here is whether those changes went into the 3.6 DI engines that went into STSs.

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    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums.../t-232007.html
    That link is to cts gen 2 model year changes. If you scroll down to 2010 and look at change #9 you'll see the 3.6l di engine was redesigned to address the timing chain issue. Was that change applied to the STS as well? That's what I'm asking.
    Also if you look at #7 you'll see what I meant about 2010 being the first year that the 3.6 NON DI engine was no longer an option on the CTS. until that point you could actually get a 3.6 SFI or a 3.6 SIDI. Obviously the SIDI is the one in the STS as well.

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    If the change was applied to the STS, then a v6 sts would be safe for 2010 and 2011.

  4. #49
    VivienM is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by curtc View Post
    The DI 3.6 in the 08+ STS/CTS is still known to use oil and develop timing chain slack...The head tech at my local GM dealer said they do multiple chain replacements per week, on DI and non-DI 3.6's, and that he would NEVER own one.
    So basically, in an attempt to compete with the Germans, GM created a motor that uses oil like an Audi motor?

  5. #50
    1BadCadSTS's Avatar
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    Shoulda bought a V8

  6. #51
    VivienM is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    If the change was applied to the STS, then a v6 sts would be safe for 2010 and 2011.
    Assuming the change actually worked and didn't have any unintentional side effects...

  7. #52
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: STS buying advice

    True. The change is that they went from 2 accessory drive belts to 1 which apparently solves the issue and improves fuel economy. Seeing as how cadillac knew the sts was on its way out and neglected updating certain aspects of it that were updated on other models, I wouldn't be surprised if they just left the sts alone. Ill do some research.

  8. #53
    KRSTS is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by curtc View Post
    2005-2006 3.6's received no extended coverage for their timing chains.
    BUT the 08 did! I have one

  9. #54
    EChas3's Avatar
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    Re: STS buying advice

    There was that TSB somewhere on the STS that really changed the OLM change interval. Did the CTS get that?

    I wonder if Cadillac changed that back in 2010...

  10. #55
    curtc's Avatar
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by EChas3 View Post
    There was that TSB somewhere on the STS that really changed the OLM change interval. Did the CTS get that?

    I wonder if Cadillac changed that back in 2010...
    Copyright 2011 General Motors. All Rights Reserved.
    Program Bulletin
    Bulletin No.:
    Date:
    10287
    February 2011
    CUSTOMER SATISFACTION PROGRAM
    SUBJECT: Premature Timing Chain Wear – Reprogram Engine Control Module
    MODELS: 2009 Buick Enclave
    2007-2009 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS
    2009 Chevrolet Traverse
    2007 GMC Acadia
    2009 GMC Acadia
    2007 Saturn OUTLOOK
    2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
    Equipped with HFV6 Engine
    Due to the availability of the required calibration, this program is being administered in phases. This first phase will include the Cadillac vehicles only. You will receive a dealer message when the calibration and VINs are being released for the remainder of the vehicles.
    THIS PROGRAM IS IN EFFECT UNTIL FEBRUARY 28, 2013.
    CONDITION
    On certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia; Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave; Chevrolet Traverse; GMC Acadia; and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a HFV6 engine, under certain driving conditions, and with extended oil change intervals, the timing chain could wear prematurely and cause the illumination of the Service Engine Soon light.
    CORRECTION
    Dealers are to reprogram the engine control module, including the engine oil life monitor.
    Page 2 February 2011 Bulletin No.: 10287
    VEHICLES INVOLVED
    Involved are certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia; Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave; Chevrolet Traverse; GMC Acadia; and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a HFV6 engine
    Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the Required Field Actions section in the Global Warranty system.
    For dealers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared and will be provided to US and Canadian dealers through the GM GlobalConnect Recall Reports, or sent directly to export dealers. Dealers will not have a report available if they have no involved vehicles currently assigned.
    The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other than follow-up necessary to complete this program is a violation of law in several states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the follow-up necessary to complete this program.
    PART INFORMATION
    No parts are required for this program.
    SERVICE PROCEDURE
    Engine Control Module Programming
    Do not attempt to order the calibration number from GM Customer Care and Aftersales. The calibration numbers required for this service procedure are programmed into control modules via a Multiple Diagnostic Interface (MDI) or Tech 2« and TIS2WEB with the calibration update. When using a MDI or Tech 2« for reprogramming, ensure that it is updated with the latest software version.
    For Cadillac vehicles: Use TIS2WEB on or after 1/9/11 to obtain the calibration. If you cannot access the calibration, call the Techline Customer Support Centre and it will be provided.
    For step-by-step programming instructions, please refer to SI and the Techline Information System (TIS) terminal.
    1. Capture and record Engine Oil Life information. Write down remaining oil life as a percentage.
    2. Verify that there is a battery charge of 12 to 15 volts. The battery must be able to maintain a charge during programming. Only use an approved Midtronics« PSC 550 Battery Maintainer (SPS Programming Support Tool EL-49642) or equivalent to maintain proper battery voltage during programming.
    3. Reprogram the engine control module (ECM). Refer to SI and Service Programming System (SPS) documentation for programming instructions, if required.
    3.1 Connect the MDI or Tech 2« to the vehicle. If using MDI, connect to programming terminal with the cable (USB or LAN).
    Page 3 February 2011 Bulletin No.: 10287
    3.2 Select J2534 MDI or J2534 Tech 2« and Reprogram ECU from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Programming Process screen.
    3.3 Select ECM Engine Control Module—Programming from the Supported Controllers screen.
    3.4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
    4. Clear all DTCs using the Tech 2« or GDS.
    5. Use a scan tool to reset the Engine Oil Life Remaining back to the original percentage recorded before completing the programming event.
    Note: If a programming failure occurs, refer to Engine Control Module Recovery Steps in this bulletin.
    Engine Control Module Recovery Steps
    1. Disconnect the programming device.
    2. Power down the control modules connected to the GMLAN bus by disconnecting the positive battery cable for 2 minutes.
    3. Reconnect the positive battery cable.
    4. Determine which programming device will be used to perform the recovery steps.
    If using MDI, connect to the programming station or Notebook using a cable (LAN). Proceed to Step 5 and then Steps 6-8.
    If using a Tech 2« proceed to Steps 6-8.
    5. Reboot the programming station or Notebook. This is to make sure nothing is in memory.
    Note: Selecting Replace and Reprogram from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Process Screen is REQUIRED because some of the calibrations may be erased from the initial attempt to reprogram the module.
    6. Reprogram the engine control module. Select Replace and Reprogram from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Process Screen.
    7. Follow the on-screen instructions to complete the programming event.
    8. Clear all DTCs using the Tech 2« or GDS.
    Note: Repeat Steps 1-8 above IF another programming failure occurs. If the second attempt to reprogram in unsuccessful when following the Steps 1-8 above, then contact Techline Customer Support Centre.
    COURTESY TRANSPORTATION – For US and Canada
    The General Motors Courtesy Transportation program is intended to minimize customer inconvenience when a vehicle requires a repair that is covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranties. The availability of courtesy transportation to customers whose vehicles are within the warranty coverage period and involved in a product program is very important in maintaining customer satisfaction. Dealers are to ensure that these customers understand that shuttle service or some other form of courtesy transportation is available and will be provided at no charge. Dealers should refer to the General Motors Service Policies and Procedures Manual for Courtesy Transportation guidelines.
    Page 4 February 2011 Bulletin No.: 10287
    WARRANTY TRANSACTION INFORMATION
    Submit a transaction using the table below.
    Labour Code
    Description
    Labour Time
    V2385
    Reprogram ECM
    0.4
    CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION – For US and Canada
    General Motors will notify customers of this program on their vehicle (see copy of customer letter included with this bulletin).
    CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION – For Export
    Letters will be sent to known owners of record located within areas covered by the US National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act. For owners outside these areas, dealers should notify customers using the attached sample letter.
    DEALER PROGRAM RESPONSIBILITY
    All unsold new vehicles in dealers' possession and subject to this program must be held and inspected/repaired per the service procedure of this program bulletin before customers take possession of these vehicles.
    Dealers are to service all vehicles subject to this program at no charge to customers, regardless of mileage, age of vehicle, or ownership, through February 28, 2013.
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    In summary, whenever a vehicle subject to this program enters your vehicle inventory, or is in your facility for service through February 28, 2013, you must take the steps necessary to be sure the program correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.
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  11. #56
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: STS buying advice

    The bulletin is published in 2011 and only covers engines up to 2009. This leads me to believe the engine design change for 2010 was done across all of GM cars that had the engine. One good way to confirm is a look at the 2010+ owners manuals compared to a 2009. There is a section in the manual that shows a drive belt diagram for all available engines. Ill take a look.

    ----------

    It's the engine drive belt routing. Looks the same.

    ----------

    Ok don't go by that the 2010 and 2009 cts manuals show the same too. Bottom line here is that someone looking for a used STS can feel confident in the reliability of the V6 as long as they go 2010+. Of course if you ask me, go v8 or go home. Honestly the fuel economy penalty is not enough to sway me to the 6. That was my logic when I originally purchased my 07 STS V8 which I've since sold.
    EChas3 and EChas3 like this.

  12. #57
    VivienM is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Of course if you ask me, go v8 or go home. Honestly the fuel economy penalty is not enough to sway me to the 6. That was my logic when I originally purchased my 07 STS V8 which I've since sold.
    The thing is, V8s can be far more scarce in some places than in others. e.g. around here, the vast majority of the used ones I see advertised are V6s without the nav/5.1 system. A few 1SGs here and there, but those were $90K new.

    I suspect a lot more V8s were sold in the U.S. market.

  13. #58
    turnne is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by EChas3 View Post
    Even if the STS purchase price has moderated, repairs & maintenance are still commensurate with original list price; less expensive than the Germans but well above the Toyotas, the other Japanese, and all those Fords & Chevys.
    not accurate...the same systems and maintenance are about the same cost on the germans...I am talking BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class

    I have never owned a Lexus or Infiniti...so I cant speak to their repair and maintenance costs

    We all the know list price of these cars vs the depreciation curve is going to take a toll on what the market is willing to invest in maintenance and repairs on an STS. That has remained consistent and has been a malady that Cadillac has had for years...though it seems the CTS has done considerably better than any Cadillac sedan in retaining resale


    Warren

  14. #59
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by VivienM View Post
    The thing is, V8s can be far more scarce in some places than in others. e.g. around here, the vast majority of the used ones I see advertised are V6s without the nav/5.1 system. A few 1SGs here and there, but those were $90K new.

    I suspect a lot more V8s were sold in the U.S. market.
    Yeah I gotcha. So if you're not going to take a long trip to pick up a v8 then 6 it is. But you'll love the 15 speaker Bose I'm telling you.

  15. #60
    EChas3's Avatar
    EChas3 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: STS buying advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Yeah I gotcha. So if you're not going to take a long trip to pick up a v8 then 6 it is. But you'll love the 15 speaker Bose I'm telling you.
    For me it was the ACC.

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