Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; ...
  1. #1
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    151

    Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    WSJ had an article today that I pasted below. Seems that in Germany they may have a way to put the smack down on unions that get out of line. Does anyone think that GM can smack the unions down to lower the end product cost? I'd be cuious what some of the informed members have to say:



    DaimlerChrysler, Workers Reach
    Cost-Saving Deal, Union Says

    Associated Press
    July 23, 2004 5:20 a.m.

    STUTTGART, Germany -- DaimlerChrysler AG reached a cost-cutting deal with its German workers Friday in return for job security guarantees after contentious talks marked by a week of protests and brief work stoppages.

    The deal involves €500 million ($612 million) in annual labor-cost savings in return for securing the jobs of more than 6,000 German workers through 2012, DaimlerChrysler Chief Executive Juergen Schrempp and chief worker representative Erich Klemm told reporters. "After tough and constructive negotiations, we have reached a good solution for DaimlerChrysler and for Germany," Mr. Schrempp said.

    As part of the deal, DaimlerChrysler's management board, the top executives running the company day to day, agreed to accept a 10% cut in compensation, and other senior managers will also make unspecified pay concessions, the company said.

    The deal, reached in talks that dragged into early Friday morning, removed DaimlerChrysler's threat to move production of its Mercedes C-Class cars away from its main factory in Sindelfingen, near Stuttgart, to cheaper plants unless workers agreed to labor-cost cuts.

    Savings from the agreement are due to take effect by 2007, when the next C-Class generation is due to go into production, the company said. The deal will also have some white-collar workers work longer hours and includes a 20% wage cut for new staff in service jobs, such as security and cafeteria workers.

    With further labor strife averted at one of Germany's industrial flagships, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder welcomed the deal as "a victory of common sense." The accord will help Germany's fragile economic recovery and proves that the country's tradition of cooperation between labor and management is "superior and successful," Mr. Schroeder said in a statement.

    After the announcement, DaimlerChrysler shares were trading 0.4% higher in midday trading at €36.37 apiece on the Frankfurt exchange.

    A main sticking point had been employee demands that the company guarantee jobs for longer than four or five years.

    The company says the Sindelfingen workers have perks such as five minutes of paid break time accumulated per hour and higher premiums for late shifts than workers at German plants elsewhere. It threatened to move the C-Class work to plants in Bremen, Germany, and East London, South Africa, where costs are lower -- a move that would wipe out 6,000 jobs at Sindelfingen.

    The paid breaks remain for now under Friday's deal.

    Tens of thousands of DaimlerChrysler workers across the country have staged protests, which they had said would escalate if no agreement could be reached.

    DaimlerChrysler has been pressing for cost cuts at its luxury Mercedes division, an earnings mainstay for the past several years, as it comes under increasing sales pressure from a slew of new models from German competitor BMW.

    "The result, in sum, is pleasing," DaimlerChrysler board member Juergen Hubbert said. "I am grateful for the willingness to reach a compromise."

    Other big German industrial firms have been pressing for similar concessions. Engineering giant Siemens AG achieved what is widely viewed as a groundbreaking deal by getting workers at phone-repair facilities in northern Germany to work 40 hours rather than 35 for no added pay. The 35-hour week was won through a 1984 strike by the industrial union IG Metall, and union leaders have been highly critical of proposals to give it up.

    Copyright (c) 2004 The Associated Press

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    miscreant's Avatar
    miscreant is offline GM Connection
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Norman, OK
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,286

    Re: Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    ...The 05 STS, option for option, is cheaper than the 03 STS...!

    2003 STS 1SE, with 300hp engine and FWD (and dated chassis) = $54,440
    2005 STS 1SE (actually more equipment), with 320hp engine and RWD (and new, world class chassis) = $50,340.

    Best of all, you can actually get an STS for $40,995...
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
    2004 Pontiac GTO: http://www.myyellowgto.com

  4. #3
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    151

    Where is your dealership?

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    ...The 05 STS, option for option, is cheaper than the 03 STS...!

    2003 STS 1SE, with 300hp engine and FWD (and dated chassis) = $54,440
    2005 STS 1SE (actually more equipment), with 320hp engine and RWD (and new, world class chassis) = $50,340.

    Best of all, you can actually get an STS for $40,995...
    Where is your dealer and in what state. The V6 is an insult in any STS. Why even discuss it...

    Let's compare V8 Models Option to Option....

    Is Magnetic Ride, a few other whistles and GPS worth $15K? I'm trying to be objective here. The other comments I have read in this forum show feedback that 2005 STS can be easily mistaken for CTS.

  5. #4
    miscreant's Avatar
    miscreant is offline GM Connection
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Norman, OK
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,286

    Re: Where is your dealership?

    Again, you didn't address the point that the 05 STS, option for option (and plus a couple) is $4000 less than the 2003 (2 years) STS...

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Where is your dealer and in what state.
    Oklahoma, Why? I'm a Cadillac enthusiast and an owner. Is there a problem?

    The V6 is an insult in any STS. Why even discuss it...
    You want this STS to compete with likes of the imports, and they all have V6 and V8 models! The E class, the 5 Series...

    Let's compare V8 Models Option to Option....
    We have on several threads. It's VERY even, with many times the STS coming in a little lower.

    Is Magnetic Ride, a few other whistles and GPS worth $15K? I'm trying to be objective here. .
    1SF PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP includes ALL 1SE equipment plus
    (DD8) Mirror, Inside
    Rearview, Electrochromic (Light-Sensitive Auto Dimming), (KB6) Seats,
    Heated/Ventilated, Front, (YQ4) Sound System, ETR AM/FM Studio
    Surround Sound Bose 5.1 With In-Dash 6 Disc DVD Changer, DVD-
    Based Advanced Navigation, (N31) Steering Wheel, Leather-Wrapped
    With Wood Accents, Heated, Wood, (CF5) Sunroof, Power, Tilt-Sliding,
    Electric, (UJ6) Tire Pressure Monitor System, (B20) Wood Trim Package,
    (TQ5) Headlamps, Intellibeam, Automatic Low/High Beam Control, (TT6)
    Headlamps, Xenon, High-Intensity Discharge, Windshield Wiper
    Activated, (CE4) Headlamp Washer System, (T43) Spoiler, Decklid,
    (Q13) Wheels, 2 - 17" x 7.5" (43.2 cm x 19.1 cm) Front, 2 - 17" x 8" (43.2
    cm x 20.3 cm) Rear, Cast Aluminum, Polished, 7-Spoke, (CE1) Wipers,
    Rainsense, (JE5) Brakes, 17", Performance, (V09) Cooling Package,
    Mechanical/Electrical Cooling System, (G80) Limited Slip Differential,
    (FE3) Suspension, 4-wheel Independent With Magnetic Ride Control

    $11,065.00

    1SG PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP includes ALL 1SF equipment plus
    (DD8) Mirror, Inside
    Rearview, Electrochromic (Light-Sensitive Auto Dimming), (KB6) Seats,
    Heated/Ventilated, Front, (YQ4) Sound System, ETR AM/FM Studio
    Surround Sound Bose 5.1 With In-Dash 6 Disc DVD Changer, DVD-
    Based Advanced Navigation, (N31) Steering Wheel, Leather-Wrapped
    With Wood Accents, Heated, Wood, (CF5) Sunroof, Power, Tilt-Sliding,
    Electric, (UJ6) Tire Pressure Monitor System, (B20) Wood Trim Package,
    (TQ5) Headlamps, Intellibeam, Automatic Low/High Beam Control, (TT6)
    Headlamps, Xenon, High-Intensity Discharge, Windshield Wiper
    Activated, (CE4) Headlamp Washer System, (T43) Spoiler, Decklid,
    (N87) Wheels, 4 - 18" x 8" (45.6 cm x 20.3 cm) Cast Aluminum Polished,
    9-Spoke Faceted, (CE1) Wipers, Rainsense, (JE5) Brakes, 17",
    Performance, (G80) Limited Slip Differential, (V03) Performance Cooling
    Package, (NV7) Premium Steering Gear, ZF, (FE3) Suspension, 4-wheel
    Independent With Magnetic Ride Control

    $13,115

    These numbers are to be added to $47,495 base V8 price, not on top of each other.

    So the $13K gives you all the options of all the packages, and magnetic ride control, Zf Steering, Performanc Cooling, Spolier, Navigation, Bose 5.1 Surround sound with 15 speakers, Performance brakes, etc...

    The other comments I have read in this forum show feedback that 2005 STS can be easily mistaken for CTS
    Side by side, they are quite different. The STS looks much more like an SRX when side by side, and should be since they are the same "s" class cadillacs. But the CTS is dwarfed by the STS, trust me. The reason they look so similiar is because they follow the same design scheme, but if you put them side by side, the differences come out. I posted a pic of side shots of both, right next to each other, and I remember many people saying "That's the best comparison shot I've seen, now I can really see the differences" - the problem? The CTS is in our minds, we see it all day long. The STS is new, and we don't see them, so we won't learn to recognize them until they start cropping up...
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
    2004 Pontiac GTO: http://www.myyellowgto.com

  6. #5
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    151

    Re: Where is your dealership?

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    Oklahoma, Why? I'm a Cadillac enthusiast and an owner. Is there a problem?

    1SG PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP includes ALL 1SF equipment plus
    (DD8) Mirror, Inside
    Rearview, Electrochromic (Light-Sensitive Auto Dimming), (KB6) Seats,
    Heated/Ventilated, Front, (YQ4) Sound System, ETR AM/FM Studio
    Surround Sound Bose 5.1 With In-Dash 6 Disc DVD Changer, DVD-
    Based Advanced Navigation, (N31) Steering Wheel, Leather-Wrapped
    With Wood Accents, Heated, Wood, (CF5) Sunroof, Power, Tilt-Sliding,
    Electric, (UJ6) Tire Pressure Monitor System, (B20) Wood Trim Package,
    (TQ5) Headlamps, Intellibeam, Automatic Low/High Beam Control, (TT6)
    Headlamps, Xenon, High-Intensity Discharge, Windshield Wiper
    Activated, (CE4) Headlamp Washer System, (T43) Spoiler, Decklid,
    (N87) Wheels, 4 - 18" x 8" (45.6 cm x 20.3 cm) Cast Aluminum Polished,
    9-Spoke Faceted, (CE1) Wipers, Rainsense, (JE5) Brakes, 17",
    Performance, (G80) Limited Slip Differential, (V03) Performance Cooling
    Package, (NV7) Premium Steering Gear, ZF, (FE3) Suspension, 4-wheel
    Independent With Magnetic Ride Control

    $13,115

    These numbers are to be added to $47,495 base V8 price, not on top of each other.

    So the $13K gives you all the options of all the packages, and magnetic ride control, Zf Steering, Performanc Cooling, Spolier, Navigation, Bose 5.1 Surround sound with 15 speakers, Performance brakes, etc...
    If th 1SG group came ith the Supercharged Engine it would justify the extra $13K. I don't see any fairness or sense to charge $13K more for options on a Cadillac. XLR did it right, here is the price with world class luzury take it or leave it. What Cadillac wants to do here is lure yuppies and couples into dealerships witha $40K "baiting price point."

    Then here is what happens (because I have been subject to this).

    1) As mentioned you see the billboard with a $40K price being advertised ($39,900 is more likely around here).
    2) Hubbie and Wifey walk into the dealer where a test drive is recommended by the sames rep.
    3) A Loaded model (startegically set aside for test drives) rolls out in front of teh dealship with Xenon headlamps, wood, V8, AWD, navigation (caddy logo glowing) and the best of wheels shining.
    4) Drive it and hubby and wifey like that nice Zebrano wood accents.
    5) You get back to the dealer and realize that that $40K model (that you were persuaded by to initially take the trip in) has dull 16 inch ugly wheels and oh yest that fancy Zebrano wood and Xenon package is an option that costs as much as juniors first new Pontiac.
    6) One of three things happen now: 1) GMAC suckers you into a lease that you can't afford for an ungodly $900 per month. 2) You finance the car trading in your 200 model for WAY below KBB value and then realize that you are over committed or three the people walk away.

    Here is the way it should be:

    Here is STS: As equipped as the 2003 model you are driving it is $63K.

    Here is CTS COmpetitively equipped it is $43K.

    The $29K(CTS) and $39K(V6STS) bait and switch is going to be figured out very quickly by consumers.

  7. #6
    Brett's Avatar
    Brett is offline Watching the Watchers
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Tampa
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,965

    Re: Where is your dealership?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Here is STS: As equipped as the 2003 model you are driving it is $63K.
    The '05 has HUD, Keyless Go, an extra 20 hp, adaptive headlights, a world class chassis, is built at a world class factory, has 3mm panel gaps instead of the 5mm on '03's, has AWD, a 5 speed manu-matic transmission, laminated windshield and side windows, larger NAV screen, DVD player, Bluetooth Phone recognition, probably more.

    How the hell can you call it "as equipped as the 2003"?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Here is CTS COmpetitively equipped it is $43K.
    Competitive to what? Are you aware the 330I doesnt even come with standard leather seats?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    The $29K(CTS) and $39K(V6STS) bait and switch is going to be figured out very quickly by consumers.
    That statement is so non-sensical that i really have nothing to say to it.



    Heres a news flash Jersey, YOU dont like the new STS, get over it. Move on and try to enjoy your life

  8. #7
    miscreant's Avatar
    miscreant is offline GM Connection
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Norman, OK
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,286

    Re: Where is your dealership?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    If th 1SG group came ith the Supercharged Engine it would justify the extra $13K. I don't see any fairness or sense to charge $13K more for options on a Cadillac. XLR did it right, here is the price with world class luzury take it or leave it. What Cadillac wants to do here is lure yuppies and couples into dealerships witha $40K "baiting price point."

    Then here is what happens (because I have been subject to this).

    1) As mentioned you see the billboard with a $40K price being advertised ($39,900 is more likely around here).
    2) Hubbie and Wifey walk into the dealer where a test drive is recommended by the sames rep.
    3) A Loaded model (startegically set aside for test drives) rolls out in front of teh dealship with Xenon headlamps, wood, V8, AWD, navigation (caddy logo glowing) and the best of wheels shining.
    4) Drive it and hubby and wifey like that nice Zebrano wood accents.
    5) You get back to the dealer and realize that that $40K model (that you were persuaded by to initially take the trip in) has dull 16 inch ugly wheels and oh yest that fancy Zebrano wood and Xenon package is an option that costs as much as juniors first new Pontiac.
    6) One of three things happen now: 1) GMAC suckers you into a lease that you can't afford for an ungodly $900 per month. 2) You finance the car trading in your 200 model for WAY below KBB value and then realize that you are over committed or three the people walk away.

    Here is the way it should be:

    Here is STS: As equipped as the 2003 model you are driving it is $63K.

    Here is CTS COmpetitively equipped it is $43K.

    The $29K(CTS) and $39K(V6STS) bait and switch is going to be figured out very quickly by consumers.
    Well, first and foremost, if that kind of bait and switch is happening at your dealership, you need to find another. I can assure you that GM's pricing isn't intended to bait and switch, they simply want to cover a larger range of the buying public, get more people into owning cadillacs that couldn't previously. Sounds like a good idea to me.

    Second, I could care less if you buy a $40k STS or a $60K STS, as long as you get the car YOU want. As a dealer, I tend to create a better relationship and tend to make a better profit margin when you get what YOU want. Our sales guides ask you what YOU want and are looking for, and try to find the right car for you.

    Lastly, what you present above is not new. GM has many car lines that range from $20k to $32k in the same model, $30k - $45k in the same model, the CTS has been out since Jan 2002 priced in this fashion, the SRX is priced in this fashion, heck, even the Deville line (Deville, DHS, DTS) is priced across a broad range of packages. It's nothing new. Even the old Seville line was priced from $45K to $58K...

    So I'm now thoroughly confused, as you are originally saying that the price is getting too high, then say that they should just put everything in it and say here's your $60+K STS and be done with it???

    Don't compare the STS to the XLR, one is a full production sedan, and the other is a limited production euro-luxo super-convertible which you're not going to have options on. It's funny since the biggest complaint coming from many people is that the STS has been packaged up, rather than having everything as options and being able to build to your liking (a dealer and consumers WORST nightmare).

    There's just too much contradictory stuff in your postings, I can't follow where really want the STS to fall and where you feel it has fallen??????
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
    2004 Pontiac GTO: http://www.myyellowgto.com

  9. #8
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    151

    Good Points

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    Well, first and foremost, if that kind of bait and switch is happening at your dealership, you need to find another. I can assure you that GM's pricing isn't intended to bait and switch, they simply want to cover a larger range of the buying public, get more people into owning cadillacs that couldn't previously. Sounds like a good idea to me.

    Second, I could care less if you buy a $40k STS or a $60K STS, as long as you get the car YOU want. As a dealer, I tend to create a better relationship and tend to make a better profit margin when you get what YOU want. Our sales guides ask you what YOU want and are looking for, and try to find the right car for you.

    Lastly, what you present above is not new. GM has many car lines that range from $20k to $32k in the same model, $30k - $45k in the same model, the CTS has been out since Jan 2002 priced in this fashion, the SRX is priced in this fashion, heck, even the Deville line (Deville, DHS, DTS) is priced across a broad range of packages. It's nothing new. Even the old Seville line was priced from $45K to $58K...

    So I'm now thoroughly confused, as you are originally saying that the price is getting too high, then say that they should just put everything in it and say here's your $60+K STS and be done with it???

    Don't compare the STS to the XLR, one is a full production sedan, and the other is a limited production euro-luxo super-convertible which you're not going to have options on. It's funny since the biggest complaint coming from many people is that the STS has been packaged up, rather than having everything as options and being able to build to your liking (a dealer and consumers WORST nightmare).

    There's just too much contradictory stuff in your postings, I can't follow where really want the STS to fall and where you feel it has fallen??????
    I want to give you credit and thank you for a great post. It was very professional and civil. Where this all stems from is what Cadillac has meant in my life to me as an individual. It's kind of like the ink blot test where some people see completely different things from the same blotch of ink.

    What Caddy means in my life is a brand name that stands for a combination of every single good aspect Cadillac has been from the from the 50s on. This means a history of constant design leadership in categories and features that were appreciated from business owners, professionals and heck even mobsters since the 40s (they liked the heavy-ness and size of the cars and how they were intimidating and safe). These qualities left a certain level of initial impression that you would feel when seeing a Cadillac. Remember the how a Deville looked in the late 80s, even though it was more compact it still had a rear end that was 100% cadillac in design. It was sporty yet very traditional etc etc. a 1990 Deville Coupe for example was somewhat timeless in design. Or the Steel top on a Eldorado in the 80s..just absolutely stunning designs IMO.

    Where have these days gone? When I see a silver S55 Mercedes or a car like a 4 door Bentley (to a smaller extent a Chrysler 300C) I get a similar feeling of anticipation and excitement as did with teh Caidllacs of yesteryear. You all can relate to what I am saying. Like when you saw a 1980s Porsche Turbo (in the 80s) or how a Yellow Ferrari looks in a parking lot right now. These cars strike the hedonistic imagination of the dreamers inside of all of us. These vehicles would invoke a certain level of passion. Was part of it exclusivity, yes. Were these cars more of an elite segment? Yes. But despite these things they still had everything you needed for the type of cars that they were.

    With everything said now lets fast forward to 2004. Here are my version of the "facts on Cadillac."

    1) Since the 1998 Seville quality is at a whole higher level than ever before. Interiors wear well and appointments are generally strong. Higher miles can reliably be expected from these cars. Very great things to build a brand on.

    2) Like two inverse arrows going in different directions
    --->
    <---
    The size of these higher quality Cadillacs continues to get smaller as quality gets better. I am not comparing a 2005 car to a 1990 car but comparing sporty and roomy sedans that are being made elsewhere in the world in 2004 to these Cadillacs of 2005 model year. It's like having 10 pair of Bruno Magli shoes but they are all a half a size too small. All that is good gets taken away by 1/8 of an inch(in the shoe example because they no longer fit you). This is what has happened in my worldview of cars like the 1998 and newer STS (in rear and front leg room and rear head room). These few inches hurt big time.

    3) A Truck whether a Mack or a pickup is still a truck. Escalade has done great and is a really awesome car however since I feel crammed in the SRX it is my only option if I want a SUV Cadillac. Problem here is that I can't stand the ride of a GMC Tahoe and do not like getting bounced around (plus performance is obtuse and trucky in feel). I actually get motion sick in teh back of a tinted window bouncy truck. Another vehicle that does not fit what I need (again just a snap shot of what my experiences are and yours may be completely different).

    4) I was relying on STS to be my next car (literally for 2005) since I am due for an upgrade. Before it was produced only certain low res drawings were available(on line) but it looked like itwould potentially be a real world beater type of design on paper (skinny vertical lights that tapered to the rear bottom of the car with a sleek Cadillac 16-ish general shape). When the car actually showed up in NY for the show last spring I said to myself as I inspected it closely "my god what the hell has GM done with my favorite car the STS." The design was so bland that I spent only a few minutes looking at it (trust me it was not a good feeling). It was like getting disappointing news that you were stuck with. Would I ever inslut working Americans by buying a foreign car, no way! Would I settle for less of a prestige brand (like buick, pontiac or Chrysler), probably not.

    Here I was with no migration path to a car I was hoping to purchase(from my current car). I guess expecting a lot from GM should be a thing of the past.

    Regretfully,
    Jerseyvette

  10. #9
    airbalancer's Avatar
    airbalancer is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Cobourg Ontario
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,303

    Re: Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    until you get a chance to see it feel it and driving it, you can not really comment on the STS. Once you are behind the wheel and get the seat rightthen you can comment if you like it.
    I find everytime I get in a CTS I find it small, but is usually after a being my GMC SLE xcab in for a oil changeand jumping into a CTS is not the same.

  11. #10
    miscreant's Avatar
    miscreant is offline GM Connection
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Norman, OK
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,286

    Re: Good Points

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    I want to give you credit and thank you for a great post. It was very professional and civil. Where this all stems from is what Cadillac has meant in my life to me as an individual. It's kind of like the ink blot test where some people see completely different things from the same blotch of ink.

    What Caddy means in my life is a brand name that stands for a combination of every single good aspect Cadillac has been from the from the 50s on. This means a history of constant design leadership in categories and features that were appreciated from business owners, professionals and heck even mobsters since the 40s (they liked the heavy-ness and size of the cars and how they were intimidating and safe). These qualities left a certain level of initial impression that you would feel when seeing a Cadillac. Remember the how a Deville looked in the late 80s, even though it was more compact it still had a rear end that was 100% cadillac in design. It was sporty yet very traditional etc etc. a 1990 Deville Coupe for example was somewhat timeless in design. Or the Steel top on a Eldorado in the 80s..just absolutely stunning designs IMO.

    Where have these days gone? When I see a silver S55 Mercedes or a car like a 4 door Bentley (to a smaller extent a Chrysler 300C) I get a similar feeling of anticipation and excitement as did with teh Caidllacs of yesteryear. You all can relate to what I am saying. Like when you saw a 1980s Porsche Turbo (in the 80s) or how a Yellow Ferrari looks in a parking lot right now. These cars strike the hedonistic imagination of the dreamers inside of all of us. These vehicles would invoke a certain level of passion. Was part of it exclusivity, yes. Were these cars more of an elite segment? Yes. But despite these things they still had everything you needed for the type of cars that they were.

    With everything said now lets fast forward to 2004. Here are my version of the "facts on Cadillac."

    1) Since the 1998 Seville quality is at a whole higher level than ever before. Interiors wear well and appointments are generally strong. Higher miles can reliably be expected from these cars. Very great things to build a brand on.

    2) Like two inverse arrows going in different directions
    --->
    <---
    The size of these higher quality Cadillacs continues to get smaller as quality gets better. I am not comparing a 2005 car to a 1990 car but comparing sporty and roomy sedans that are being made elsewhere in the world in 2004 to these Cadillacs of 2005 model year. It's like having 10 pair of Bruno Magli shoes but they are all a half a size too small. All that is good gets taken away by 1/8 of an inch(in the shoe example because they no longer fit you). This is what has happened in my worldview of cars like the 1998 and newer STS (in rear and front leg room and rear head room). These few inches hurt big time.

    3) A Truck whether a Mack or a pickup is still a truck. Escalade has done great and is a really awesome car however since I feel crammed in the SRX it is my only option if I want a SUV Cadillac. Problem here is that I can't stand the ride of a GMC Tahoe and do not like getting bounced around (plus performance is obtuse and trucky in feel). I actually get motion sick in teh back of a tinted window bouncy truck. Another vehicle that does not fit what I need (again just a snap shot of what my experiences are and yours may be completely different).

    4) I was relying on STS to be my next car (literally for 2005) since I am due for an upgrade. Before it was produced only certain low res drawings were available(on line) but it looked like itwould potentially be a real world beater type of design on paper (skinny vertical lights that tapered to the rear bottom of the car with a sleek Cadillac 16-ish general shape). When the car actually showed up in NY for the show last spring I said to myself as I inspected it closely "my god what the hell has GM done with my favorite car the STS." The design was so bland that I spent only a few minutes looking at it (trust me it was not a good feeling). It was like getting disappointing news that you were stuck with. Would I ever inslut working Americans by buying a foreign car, no way! Would I settle for less of a prestige brand (like buick, pontiac or Chrysler), probably not.

    Here I was with no migration path to a car I was hoping to purchase(from my current car). I guess expecting a lot from GM should be a thing of the past.

    Regretfully,
    Jerseyvette
    I credit you for a more calmed, expanatory post. This now reads more about your opinion and feelings rather than what we all should be forced to believe.

    I will address some questions:

    #2) Size: You do comment that it's shrinking when compared to other cars in its market segment. But the cars you have compared it to where it's smaller are not in its market segment, they're in the segment that you felt the STS was supposed to be in. Lets not make this about size, since in the STSs market segment, it's comparitively larger than most if not all. Lets focus on the real complaint that you wished the STS would have been to compete with the larger higher priced sedans.

    #3) Now I certainly can't understand the ride comparison of the Escalade to a Tahoe. The Escalade rides phenomenal and doesn't "bounce" around at all.

    And lastly, I just want to again make sure of the fact that the '05 with the same options and more (mostly small adds) is $4000 less than the 03 STS model. I know you commented above that:

    "Here's the STS equipped the same as your '03 for $63K..." which is not true at all. Equipped the same, it would be $4000 less. A good step by Cadillac. A better car, with more power, RWD, and $4000 less. Almost unheard of. I think that's the best comparison we can make is that Cadillac raised the bar for $4000 less.
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
    2004 Pontiac GTO: http://www.myyellowgto.com

  12. #11
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,684

    Re: Where is your dealership?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Where is your dealer and in what state. The V6 is an insult in any STS. Why even discuss it...
    just to let you know v6 sts got a faster time than v8 sts in most reviews

  13. #12
    krypt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    29

    Re: Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    Owning a 1991 Seville and a 1999 STS, I hated the new STS at first too. It seriously looked like an art and science styled DTS to me. I only hated it because I was expecting the horizontal lines. I started viewing it with an open mind and realized that it really is a nice car. It's much more mature looking than the CTS and hopefully the interior will have a better fit and finish than my current STS.

    I love the current interior of the '99 STS (more than the new one for sure), but there are small problems everywhere. Wood warped, loose threads, gaps, driver side leather is falling apart faster than on my old Seville (from regular sitting), etc...and I keep very good care of it.

  14. #13
    rayainsw is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    147

    Re: Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    "just to let you know v6 sts got a faster time than v8 sts in most reviews"
    - Devil

    Where? I have yet to see a review with actual (not GM) acceleration times for the V6 STS???
    - Ray
    Confused . . .

  15. #14
    gothicaleigh's Avatar
    gothicaleigh is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Current: None Past: '94 STS, '93 Eldorado, '98 ETC, '03 CTS
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    MyWorldIsEvil, ButAmericanMade
    Posts
    6,654

    Re: Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    Quote Originally Posted by rayainsw
    "just to let you know v6 sts got a faster time than v8 sts in most reviews"
    - Devil

    Where? I have yet to see a review with actual (not GM) acceleration times for the V6 STS???
    - Ray
    Confused . . .

    Yeah, that surprised me too. Could you post some links?
    While the 3.6L V6 is an impressive performer as evidenced by how well it moves the CTS, I find it hard to believe that a 255-260hp engine would post better numbers than the same car propelled by the 320hp Northstar.


    Not to say that it's performance isn't impressive. I would bet that even 255hp would move the STS along very well, just that the Northstar has a commanding lead in displacement and torque...

  16. #15
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,684

    Re: Addressing soaring prices 2005 STS

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
    Yeah, that surprised me too. Could you post some links?
    While the 3.6L V6 is an impressive performer as evidenced by how well it moves the CTS, I find it hard to believe that a 255-260hp engine would post better numbers than the same car propelled by the 320hp Northstar.


    Not to say that it's performance isn't impressive. I would bet that even 255hp would move the STS along very well, just that the Northstar has a commanding lead in displacement and torque...
    let me make it clear for you guys

    4.6l rwd sts > 3.6l rwd sts > 4.6l fwd sts
    3.6l rwd sts > 3.6l rwd CTS

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting