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Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, 2006 STS is it French? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Jersey, i and the owner of this site have no problems with people having a negative opinion of Cadillac(i own ...
  1. #46
    Brett's Avatar
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    Re: Is this an open forum or a front for dealers?

    Jersey, i and the owner of this site have no problems with people having a negative opinion of Cadillac(i own a lexus). But constantly starting threads, specifically this one, where the original post is so utterly ridiculous makes it seem as if you are only here to troll/bash. I would recommend you just hang out, state your opinion where you see fit and hold off from starting any new threads for a while


    And if people have attacked you personally, I havent seen it. And it wont be tolerated either.

  2. #47
    rueben44 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    You are looking for every way possible to hate the STS. Under your name it says "Cadillac Fan", though you don't act like one. You say "The STS is smaller than XXXX car" then some posts actual dimensions that shows it longer, taller, and wider, and you make no comment, only to simply CONTINUE to go on saying it's smaller. You post pictures of an S500 with the seats all the way foward and then pictures of a DTS and STS with seats all the way back, and claim "look, the S500 is roomier".

    You post pricing of the STS based on the top of the line models. The V6 starts just over $40k and the V8 starts at a little over $47k. The $55K+ cars are the ones with ALL the bells like adaptive cruise, nav, 5.1 surround sound. Your comparisons are off, you claim its smaller when it's not, and you compare it to a CTS when it's very different (other than the steering wheel center design, they look completely different inside!).

    But I digress, judging by previous posts, you'll simply find some other reason to rag on the STS and other Cadillacs...


    Right on the money he trashes the cars and says a lot of silly stuff and it is not even factual. Just a lot of ranting and raving. Even after we showed that the STS was bigger than the imports inside. Still he tries to make up stuff.

  3. #48
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    Re: Ford 500

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    The R&D Comment was true. There is a book at barnes and noble called "the top 20 of everything 2004" that lists companies with the highest R&D budgets and by vertical. I think ford is like 5.5 Bill Annually and GM is like $4.2 Bill annually..
    The Ford numbers are skewed. Ford owns Mazda, and Land Rover, of which both companies are undergoing a ton of makeovers (The mazda line is almost completely changind, and the new LR3 was VERY expensive for land rover), plus couple that with the fact that Ford has just recently went into the restyle of their own vehicles (they have some of the oldest chassis and models in the market), it would be expected that they would have the budget. Having the budget does NOT mean they are actually making the cars that will reflect that budget...
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  4. #49
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    Re: Ford 500

    I don't think that the Ford numbers are 'skewed' per se. GM's numbers include many small splinter automakers too (HUMMER, Saab, Opel, Holden, etc.). Also remember that Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Buick are undergoing massive redesigns of practically their entire car lineups. I don't know if it made the Barnes&Noble report, but GM invested 4 billion in Cadillac alone (how much of Ford's percentage was Lincoln, hmm?). 3 billion will be thrown at Buick in hopes of turning it into an 'american Lexus' in the next few years too.

    Of course, Ford can throw as much money at R&D as it wants, but if it doesn't show in production it will all be for naught. R&D budget is a poor way to gauge a company. Some may get more 'bang for the buck'. Look to the end results.

  5. #50
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    Re: Ford 500

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
    I don't think that the Ford numbers are 'skewed' per se. GM's numbers include many small splinter automakers too (HUMMER, Saab, Opel, Holden, etc.). Also remember that Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Buick are undergoing massive redesigns of practically their entire car lineups. I don't know if it made the Barnes&Noble report, but GM invested 4 billion in Cadillac alone (how much of Ford's percentage was Lincoln, hmm?). 3 billion will be thrown at Buick in hopes of turning it into an 'american Lexus' in the next few years too.

    Of course, Ford can throw as much money at R&D as it wants, but if it doesn't show in production it will all be for naught. R&D budget is a poor way to gauge a company. Some may get more 'bang for the buck'. Look to the end results.
    ...True words! Sometimes I wonder why Ford is bothering to sink money they barely have in to "saving" both Mercury and Lincoln. The Town Cars' underpinnings date to the 1977 model year (Ford "LTD II). The redecorating that this and the LS went through for 2003 has had only the effect of cutting sales. A very large percentage of both these sedans go directly to rental fleets. (Cadillac does sell base Devilles to such companies but in much lower numbers). The Aviator took off only with $3000 rebates. The Navigator is all that's keeping the franchise afloat. Now, I read that Ford may be considering building the next Town Car off the front wheel/ all wheel drive Ford Five Hundred platform. There will be (still more) concept cars at Detroit in January to showcase (another) direction for Lincoln.
    And on that subject, does anyone know what happened to all those Lincoln concept cars from the past 6 years? Every January of this decade you could bet there would be a concept Lincoln at the Detroit show, but the only thing they seemed to have influenced is the grille on the current Town Car.

  6. #51
    1toycad is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    This is an interestign thread.

    I think that JerseyVette is correct in many aspects. Caddies have been getting smaller over the years. I was at the dealer the other day and there was a mint 1984 Fleetwood, with only 20K miles on the clock. Next to it, my 1999 Seville looked like a Mini Cooper.

    Whether that is a good or a bad thing, remains to be seen. I don't think that making the cars smaller is necessarily a bad thing. Personally, I prefer the proportions of my Seville over the proportions of that 1984 Fleetwood. It is just a matter of preference.

    Germany is making smaller sedans. My own S series 420SEL was replaced by the HUGE next generation S series. That model (the W140 body) did not sell well, however. The new (current) generation S series is smaller than the last generation and it is doing quite well. In today's market, size does matter....

    I think that American cars should make better use of interior space. My Seville is a large sedan on the outside and it is FWD to boot. Yet, the interior space in the backseat is very cramped. I think that the engineers at GM could have found a way to make the current generation Seville bigger in the inside, while retaining the same outside proportions.

    One final thought, if you guys don't like what JerseyVette posts, why do you answer him then? If you don't answer him, the thread dies by its own lack of interest. Just a thought.

  7. #52
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Guys & girls, this guy is just some chimp looking to argue... Everytime you respond to one of his post with reason, logic and hard facts all you're doing is giving the little monkey another banana to cr@p back out at you.... Best thing to do is ignore his post if they are the ususual nonsense psycho-babble... Oh, before I forget, if you (Jerseyvette) actually believe that the citroen and the caddilac look anything alike with the exception of both having the basic car elements (i.e. 4 wheels, lights, doors etc.), you are definately dumber than a bag of hammers.... Well, thats my two cents.... And, the new STS rules!

  8. #53
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Caddies have been getting smaller over the years.
    True words. My '80 Eldorado is HUGE compared to everything else on the road.

    I think that the resizing(sp?) of Cadillac over the years is good and bad. Its good because Cadillac can compete more with the Euro and Jap cars since nowadays people aren't looking for gas guzzlers.

    On the other hand, i think that with the down-sizing of Caddys, Cadillac has lost their image of what they used to be. Instead of being a Cadillac, they're just another luxary car. I might as well get a Lexus LS 430 or a Lincoln Town Car. But i think that the image problem is more of a American car maker thing. Pretty much all of the American cars went UGLY in the 80s including Cadillac (compared to their previous models) and its just now that the American car makers have caught up to the Japs in terms of quality and the Euros in terms of design.

    Examples of this are:

    1) Ford Mustang; Who doesn't want a Shelby Mustang??? Then they got UGLY, real UGLY. Just compare a '68 Mustang to an '88 Mustang. There is no comparison. But with the new '05 Mustang, Ford is finally getting back to where they were. Granted, its still a Found On Road Dead. But its good for American cars.

    2) Chevy Corvette; Who doesn't want a Stingray Corvette??? And just like the Mustangs, they got real ugly too. Maybe this new Corvette will be good. But then again, it doesn't have the fold-down head lights. Could be bad....

    3) Heres a Cadillac for us....how bout the DeVille??? To make this one easy, i will just post pictures (hopefully the links will work)





    If anyone thinks that the 87 deville looks better than the '57, then they must be crazy.

    But just like the Ford Mustang and the Chevy Corvette, the Deville is looking nice. The '06 DeVille looks great expecially with the design cues from the 16.

    I think that GM & Ford just got lazy and then they had to pay the price for it. But now they've caught up and i might actually buy another American made car one of these days if they keep going like they're doing now....

  9. #54
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Concours
    Guys & girls, this guy is just some chimp looking to argue... Everytime you respond to one of his post with reason, logic and hard facts all you're doing is giving the little monkey another banana to cr@p back out at you.... Best thing to do is ignore his post if they are the ususual nonsense psycho-babble... Oh, before I forget, if you (Jerseyvette) actually believe that the citroen and the caddilac look anything alike with the exception of both having the basic car elements (i.e. 4 wheels, lights, doors etc.), you are definately dumber than a bag of hammers.... Well, thats my two cents.... And, the new STS rules!
    STS does rule in a parking lot full of Acuras.

  10. #55
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Quote Originally Posted by ben72227
    True words. My '80 Eldorado is HUGE compared to everything else on the road.

    I think that the resizing(sp?) of Cadillac over the years is good and bad. Its good because Cadillac can compete more with the Euro and Jap cars since nowadays people aren't looking for gas guzzlers.

    On the other hand, i think that with the down-sizing of Caddys, Cadillac has lost their image of what they used to be. Instead of being a Cadillac, they're just another luxary car. I might as well get a Lexus LS 430 or a Lincoln Town Car. But i think that the image problem is more of a American car maker thing. Pretty much all of the American cars went UGLY in the 80s including Cadillac (compared to their previous models) and its just now that the American car makers have caught up to the Japs in terms of quality and the Euros in terms of design.

    Examples of this are:

    1) Ford Mustang; Who doesn't want a Shelby Mustang??? Then they got UGLY, real UGLY. Just compare a '68 Mustang to an '88 Mustang. There is no comparison. But with the new '05 Mustang, Ford is finally getting back to where they were. Granted, its still a Found On Road Dead. But its good for American cars.

    2) Chevy Corvette; Who doesn't want a Stingray Corvette??? And just like the Mustangs, they got real ugly too. Maybe this new Corvette will be good. But then again, it doesn't have the fold-down head lights. Could be bad....

    3) Heres a Cadillac for us....how bout the DeVille??? To make this one easy, i will just post pictures (hopefully the links will work)





    If anyone thinks that the 87 deville looks better than the '57, then they must be crazy.

    But just like the Ford Mustang and the Chevy Corvette, the Deville is looking nice. The '06 DeVille looks great expecially with the design cues from the 16.

    I think that GM & Ford just got lazy and then they had to pay the price for it. But now they've caught up and i might actually buy another American made car one of these days if they keep going like they're doing now....
    I used to drive an 85 Cupe Deville and it was quick and very comfortable for it's time. The resurgance of large prestige cars is coming back and this is what many on this site are overlooking. The Germans have had a history of having the newest type of car designs 9leading concepts) since the 80s in the large sport luxury sedan segment (my earliest memories were the 420SEL's and the Older 735i's). These cars were and are big, heavy and can hold their own at high speeds. For an example of how the Germans are leading this resurgance of the "big sedan" is the Volkswagen Phaeton. This car is RWD with a massive engine available (The W12). The engine is shared with the Bentley Continental GT See the pic below of a larger car that is still nimble, high tech and easy to park. A cool feature (no pun intended) is that each passenger gets their own climate controlled environment. Long live big brawny, stodgy high performance sedans!
    Attached Images

  11. #56
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    I used to drive an 85 Cupe Deville and it was quick and very comfortable for it's time. The resurgance of large prestige cars is coming back and this is what many on this site are overlooking. The Germans have had a history of having the newest type of car designs 9leading concepts) since the 80s in the large sport luxury sedan segment (my earliest memories were the 420SEL's and the Older 735i's). These cars were and are big, heavy and can hold their own at high speeds. For an example of how the Germans are leading this resurgance of the "big sedan" is the Volkswagen Phaeton. This car is RWD with a massive engine available (The W12). The engine is shared with the Bentley Continental GT See the pic below of a larger car that is still nimble, high tech and easy to park. A cool feature (no pun intended) is that each passenger gets their own climate controlled environment. Long live big brawny, stodgy high performance sedans!
    Yes, the Phaeton is a large, plush car. But at $70k+ nicely equipped, and approaching over $100,000+, it's not an STS competitor.

    Manufacturers aren't moving to larger vehicles, they are adding larger vehicles to their lineup. In actuallity, many are making the current models smaller, tighter, sleeker, while then adding a new larger model to the line-up.

    I understand your points, and I don't disagree with the fact that Cadillac needs to compete in this market you point out. My major complaint about your posts simply was that you were expecting the STS to be that competitor, but the market segment that even back in 1998 and on, that bought the Seville STS was not the big boat Cadillac buyer. The Seville STS has previously been too much luxury and too much sheetmetal and not enough sport and flash to compete with the competitors it was supposed to be against. Instead, because it was too plush and not sporty, it was usually mistaken to compete with the larger guys, and failed miserably. Finally the STS can compete and stand it's ground against the true competitors it always had. The STS is not the car you are looking for. The STS was desperately needed to fill that *middle* slot. Had it been the big boat, sport machine that you want it to be, a HUGE gaping hole would be left in Cadillac's line-up, of which is a much LARGER market than the large euro-lux market is...
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  12. #57
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    Yes, the Phaeton is a large, plush car. But at $70k+ nicely equipped, and approaching over $100,000+, it's not an STS competitor.

    Manufacturers aren't moving to larger vehicles, they are adding larger vehicles to their lineup. In actuallity, many are making the current models smaller, tighter, sleeker, while then adding a new larger model to the line-up.

    I understand your points, and I don't disagree with the fact that Cadillac needs to compete in this market you point out. My major complaint about your posts simply was that you were expecting the STS to be that competitor, but the market segment that even back in 1998 and on, that bought the Seville STS was not the big boat Cadillac buyer. The Seville STS has previously been too much luxury and too much sheetmetal and not enough sport and flash to compete with the competitors it was supposed to be against. Instead, because it was too plush and not sporty, it was usually mistaken to compete with the larger guys, and failed miserably. Finally the STS can compete and stand it's ground against the true competitors it always had. The STS is not the car you are looking for. The STS was desperately needed to fill that *middle* slot. Had it been the big boat, sport machine that you want it to be, a HUGE gaping hole would be left in Cadillac's line-up, of which is a much LARGER market than the large euro-lux market is...
    exactly...jerseyvette, with all due respect, why cant you get it through your head that the STS is not the big cadillac?! Its not meant to be. It isnt meant to go up against the s class or the 7 series. Its the middle car in the linup, the sportier luxury sedan. You keep wanting big cadillacs, well look elsewhere because since the introduction of the Seville or STS, IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE THE HUGE CADILLLAC BOAT YOU WANT IT TO BE.

  13. #58
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2006 STS is it French?

    Quote Originally Posted by miscreant
    Yes, the Phaeton is a large, plush car. But at $70k+ nicely equipped, and approaching over $100,000+, it's not an STS competitor.

    Manufacturers aren't moving to larger vehicles, they are adding larger vehicles to their lineup. In actuallity, many are making the current models smaller, tighter, sleeker, while then adding a new larger model to the line-up.

    I understand your points, and I don't disagree with the fact that Cadillac needs to compete in this market you point out. My major complaint about your posts simply was that you were expecting the STS to be that competitor, but the market segment that even back in 1998 and on, that bought the Seville STS was not the big boat Cadillac buyer. The Seville STS has previously been too much luxury and too much sheetmetal and not enough sport and flash to compete with the competitors it was supposed to be against. Instead, because it was too plush and not sporty, it was usually mistaken to compete with the larger guys, and failed miserably. Finally the STS can compete and stand it's ground against the true competitors it always had. The STS is not the car you are looking for. The STS was desperately needed to fill that *middle* slot. Had it been the big boat, sport machine that you want it to be, a HUGE gaping hole would be left in Cadillac's line-up, of which is a much LARGER market than the large euro-lux market is...
    I think we agree that Cadillac 16 in 8 cylinder at $70K and a 16 Cylinder at $90K is the solution to my needs for the lineup. Why would Cadillac come out with a 16 and then make new cars that don't follow (even remotely) the design philosophy or theme? Same holds true with the 2 door Cien (I believe this was the indy car looking car?) anyway that car makes anyone drool because it is a supercar. I think we all want some of these concept cars to come alive! XLR was a good and bold start!

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