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#1 ·
STS People,

Here are two pictures. The STS with options tops out in the mid 60K range (WAY OVER PRICED IMO). And also attached is the 2005 E500 Mercedes. Anyone else think that the STS looks a lot cheaper than the Mercedes? I was hoping for a broader more classic styling theme for the 2005 STS. Remember the bigon days when having a Seville meant you were doing better then the average guy on the block? Remeber the feel of sitting in the back of a car and actually fitting into it.

Here is where Benz is kicking Caddy's ass right now (regarding the 2005 STS)
1) The E 500 stayed with a classic/prestige grill theme (caddy did not)
2) The E 500 appears to be a bigger car and looks good when parked (The STS is sigma'd out and looks like a CTS XL which is what it is)
3) I'd bet an E500 Engine would have a lot more off the line kick than a 320 horse Northstar.

Again, I have owned Caddy's forever and most likely will not switch to MB but you have to see the points I am raising...
 

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#3 ·
jerseyvette said:
STS People,

Here are two pictures. The STS with options tops out in the mid 60K range (WAY OVER PRICED IMO). Remember the bigon days when having a Seville meant you were doing better then the average guy on the block? Remeber the feel of sitting in the back of a car and actually fitting into it.
I think the average guy will still have trouble owning a brand-new STS. I agree with you on the size of cars nowadays - but the STS isn't Cadillac's BIG car.. That's the DeVille - which isn't very big anyway. I hope they increase the size of whatever replaced the DeVille..

At any cost - the looks of the STS vs E500 are just a matter of taste. I think many people will go either way in regards to the looks. I forget what the inside of the E500 looks like - but as far as the outside goes, I don't think the STS looks bad. BMW seems to do just fine and the 3, 5 and 7 series have looked similar except for size for quite awhile...
 
#4 ·
the price is not good imo. lexus made their mark by undercutting everyone else. i know cadillac isnt a startup like lexus, but in some ways they are in worse shape because they are not coming from no reputation, they are coming from a negative reputation.

i see no possible reason to trade my ls430 for a new sts. my car matches it in features and beats it in resale and reliability. and my LS was cheaper as well.
 
#5 ·
jerseyvette said:
The STS with options tops out in the mid 60K range (WAY OVER PRICED IMO)
...With ALL available options, tops out mid 60K. This is a versatile priced car, starting in the low 40s and ending in the mid 60s...

Remeber the feel of sitting in the back of a car and actually fitting into it.
The STS in many pictures looks small, and that's because it's TALL. It's taller than a current deville.

2) The E 500 appears to be a bigger car and looks good when parked (The STS is sigma'd out and looks like a CTS XL which is what it is)
The STS: 4" longer wheel base, 7" longer overall, 1.3" wider, and .5" taller.
 

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#6 ·
Brett said:
...and my LS was cheaper as well.
??:hmm: ?? I believe the 04 LS 430 starts at ~$56K before any packages or options. A FULLY loaded 1SG rear wheel drive STS is right at $60K, and that's only the price of a LS 430 with the PT Modern Luxury package. A 1SG STS is more comparable to something between the Custom and Ultra Luxury LS 430 ($65-$68K), and that's 04 pricing. Supposedly there's a $1800 price increase on the LS 430 for 2005.
 
#7 · (Edited)
jerseyvette said:
Another Pic to show what I am referring to.


The STS is not suppodsed to look like a mid line Infinity!!!!
It's probably more accurate to say the a mid-line Infiniti looks like a Cadillac, rather than the other way 'round. Nissan/Infiniti has done a very good job of copying the themes of the Evoq concept car since its introduction in 1999.
 
#8 ·
miscreant said:
...With ALL available options, tops out mid 60K. This is a versatile priced car, starting in the low 40s and ending in the mid 60s...

The STS in many pictures looks small, and that's because it's TALL. It's taller than a current deville.

The STS: 4" longer wheel base, 7" longer overall, 1.3" wider, and .5" taller.
You did it again, miscreant! That pic is the best profile shot of STS I've seen so far. I wonder how jerseyvette would feel if he/she could see the C, E, and S all lined up in profile? How could one tell them apart?

May I ask, these dimensions you've listed. Is this compared to the E 500?
 
#9 ·
miscreant said:
??:hmm: ?? I believe the 04 LS 430 starts at ~$56K before any packages or options. A FULLY loaded 1SG rear wheel drive STS is right at $60K, and that's only the price of a LS 430 with the PT Modern Luxury package. A 1SG STS is more comparable to something between the Custom and Ultra Luxury LS 430 ($65-$68K), and that's 04 pricing. Supposedly there's a $1800 price increase on the LS 430 for 2005.

My LS with modern lux package(mark levinson, nav, bluetooth, backup camera, climate seats, parking assist front and rear), smartkey and sport package was 62159, i got 3k off of that. Id say those features are very comparable to the STS 1sg. I think the STS has HUD and laser cruise control which mine doesnt. mine has a 6-speed trans, rear vanity mirrors, adaptive headlights, power rear sunshade, back up camera, FRONT and rear parking assist, i dont think the STS has any of those. Basically, pretty evenly matched cars imo. And basically the same price, which is what scares me. until cadillac builds up a resale values, you gotta admit the LS is a bit of a better value.

you know im a cadillac fan miscreant, but i just dont see how the STS stacks up against some of the PROVEN competitors. which i guess is my point. if im gonna take a chance on a luxury car, i wish it were a little cheaper than its competitors
 
#13 ·
Brett said:
you know im a cadillac fan miscreant, but i just dont see how the STS stacks up against some of the PROVEN competitors. which i guess is my point. if im gonna take a chance on a luxury car, i wish it were a little cheaper than its competitors
:rant2: I believe many import purchasers forget that Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz had to get their ideas from somewhere.....Cadillac. When BMW, MB & Lexus were starting out, who do you think those companies looked to to introduce themselves into the US market? Its a shame! Who the hell needs rear vanity mirrors? That is a BIT much, IMO! A back-up camera? Do you hear the words "distorted picture?" And if you were hurt and attempted to sue because the camera didn't display the rear appropriately, SOL. Cadillac's back-up aid is much better, none the less. Did I see the word cheap? Why should Cadillac compete in a "prestige luxury market" and be the cheapest!:rant2::want:
 
#14 ·
EgyptianQueen said:
:rant2: I believe many import purchasers forget that Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz had to get their ideas from somewhere.....Cadillac. When BMW, MB & Lexus were starting out, who do you think those companies looked to to introduce themselves into the US market? Its a shame! Who the hell needs rear vanity mirrors? That is a BIT much, IMO! A back-up camera? Do you hear the words "distorted picture?" And if you were hurt and attempted to sue because the camera didn't display the rear appropriately, SOL. Cadillac's back-up aid is much better, none the less. Did I see the word cheap? Why should Cadillac compete in a "prestige luxury market" and be the cheapest!:rant2::want:
yeah, some of those features are pretty useless, i was just trying to point out the differences, i think the cars are basically evenly matched. although i do like the back up camera, and there is also 6 sensors back there, opposed to the STS's 4 :p

like i said my point was for the same money, i dont want to take a risk on the STS. cars are one thing in life there is no gain to taking a risk on. because if it turns out to be a home run, you can always buy one then, its not like they are limiting the amount they manufacture. i just wish they would let the newcomers get a little discount. if it topped out at 59,999 i think that would be great

P.S. i forgot the mag ride on the STS, lexus doesnt have that
 
#16 ·
I am seeing the same theme here:

megeebee said:
You did it again, miscreant! That pic is the best profile shot of STS I've seen so far. I wonder how jerseyvette would feel if he/she could see the C, E, and S all lined up in profile? How could one tell them apart?

May I ask, these dimensions you've listed. Is this compared to the E 500?
I think we all agree that the new STS is a styling disappointment from almost every category. Would the car be a real player badged as the "2005 Aurora" or "New Euro-Fighter Buick"? Definately! But as the Caddy that we were expecting to set direction for the company of GM on a world scale (in the presitge segment)??? Sorry but it falls way short of what I was expecting.I was just in Vegas as a club called the Sterling Club where many hitters and wanna-bees were driving up to the valet. The absolute "real hitters" had 4 door Bentley's and cars of that level. As the crowd tapered down more into the middle man/younger exec space you saw MB E Class and BMW 745 level cars (even a few older models pulled in).

What's the point here? The point is that the "club type" of buyer is looking for the same type of style cars that I like. This style is a heavy looking (yet well handling), stodgy (yet aerodynamic) and roomy (yet sleek) style of car. This is why I am so fond of the Chrysler 300C. It has a Chrently (Chrysler/Bentley combined:) type of styling which I REALLY admire.

I then ask myself "why" is GM taking the approach of the 2005 STS Design? All I can guess is that they(GM Decision Makers) see it as a safe (globally confused IMO) bet that will attract smaller people that may otherwise buy a smaller sized Infinity, Lexus or Jaguar (notice I pointed out the smaller models). What GM fails to understand is that taking a lead role (in marketing they call this the pioneer role) that includes certain risks. Now why could Caddillac not come out with a car (in addition to the existing models) that has the type of appeal that I have been discussing? I'm talking about a car that you would buy for $48K that would have a 385HP V8 and be intended to show up a silver Mercedes S55 when parked next to it at the valet? Why is it that the foreign car buyer (Audi A8, S 500 etc) has to have bigger and more impressive car in 2004 than anything made here in America?

Anyone else agree with my thoughts? I welcome feedback.

Mr. Jersey vette:want:
 
#17 ·
Re: I am seeing the same theme here:

jerseyvette said:
I think we all agree that the new STS is a styling disappointment from almost every category. Would the car be a real player badged as the "2005 Aurora" or "New Euro-Fighter Buick"? Definately! But as the Caddy that we were expecting to set direction for the company of GM on a world scale (in the presitge segment)??? Sorry but it falls way short of what I was expecting.I was just in Vegas as a club called the Sterling Club where many hitters and wanna-bees were driving up to the valet. The absolute "real hitters" had 4 door Bentley's and cars of that level. As the crowd tapered down more into the middle man/younger exec space you saw MB E Class and BMW 745 level cars (even a few older models pulled in).

What's the point here? The point is that the "club type" of buyer is looking for the same type of style cars that I like. This style is a heavy looking (yet well handling), stodgy (yet aerodynamic) and roomy (yet sleek) style of car. This is why I am so fond of the Chrysler 300C. It has a Chrently (Chrysler/Bentley combined:) type of styling which I REALLY admire.

I then ask myself "why" is GM taking the approach of the 2005 STS Design? All I can guess is that they(GM Decision Makers) see it as a safe (globally confused IMO) bet that will attract smaller people that may otherwise buy a smaller sized Infinity, Lexus or Jaguar (notice I pointed out the smaller models). What GM fails to understand is that taking a lead role (in marketing they call this the pioneer role) that includes certain risks. Now why could Caddillac not come out with a car (in addition to the existing models) that has the type of appeal that I have been discussing? I'm talking about a car that you would buy for $48K that would have a 385HP V8 and be intended to show up a silver Mercedes S55 when parked next to it at the valet? Why is it that the foreign car buyer (Audi A8, S 500 etc) has to have bigger and more impressive car in 2004 than anything made here in America?

Anyone else agree with my thoughts? I welcome feedback.

Mr. Jersey vette:want:
because
1. Deville is meant to fight against a8, s etc not STS.
2. STS is adequate enough for most people even few taller people like me (6'2"). I fit in my cts fine.
3. S55 will run you 100k+
4. Not everyone wants a huge car. Times are changing and everyone wants something reasonable.

5. STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE and i think it looks pretty good.
 
#18 ·
Re: I am seeing the same theme here:

Devil_concours said:
because
1. Deville is meant to fight against a8, s etc not STS.
2. STS is adequate enough for most people even few taller people like me (6'2"). I fit in my cts fine.
3. S55 will run you 100k+
4. Not everyone wants a huge car. Times are changing and everyone wants something reasonable.

5. STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE and i think it looks pretty good.
I saw the car in person parked last weekend and it is really plain and small (very compact interior). Deville to me is a plainly styled car as well. Where is the Cadillac 16 with a 400HP Z06 motor or a HO Northstar when you need it....:crying:
 
#19 ·
Re: I am seeing the same theme here:

Devil_concours said:
because
1. Deville is meant to fight against a8, s etc not STS.
2. STS is adequate enough for most people even few taller people like me (6'2"). I fit in my cts fine.
3. S55 will run you 100k+
4. Not everyone wants a huge car. Times are changing and everyone wants something reasonable.

5. STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE and i think it looks pretty good.
Let's see??? Who would win this contest in prestige, size, features and performance???? Anyone want to volunteer an answer???
 

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#21 ·
From what I have read, most stories lead me to conclude that the 300C is largely (NOT completely though) an E class mercedes with a hemi and chrysler badging. The 300C has borrowed heavily from the E class. If true, I would find it tough to justify $60K plus for a car when the 300C (or E300 clone if you like) is out there for $35K.

Just my opinions. Now where's my Hemi?

Alan
 
#23 ·
CAR Motorsports said:
From what I have read, most stories lead me to conclude that the 300C is largely (NOT completely though) an E class mercedes with a hemi and chrysler badging. The 300C has borrowed heavily from the E class. If true, I would find it tough to justify $60K plus for a car when the 300C (or E300 clone if you like) is out there for $35K.

Just my opinions. Now where's my Hemi?

Alan
fyi, it shares platform with previous gen e class not the new ones.
 
#24 ·
Re: I am seeing the same theme here:

jerseyvette said:
Let's see??? Who would win this contest in prestige, size, features and performance???? Anyone want to volunteer an answer???
we will just have to wait and see when cadillac actually comes out with the new deville on a rwd platform.

btw, one of the comparison had a dts above s430. It also runs simlar times with a lot of base v8 sedans(not the top of the line/high performance versions)
 
#25 ·
Re: I am seeing the same theme here:

Actually it replicates the current E Classes suspension and a couple other things....but in all its only like 25-30% mercedes E class.....

I agree though with the STS being way over priced.......the European cars get away with it because they are overhyped......the STS is just plain expensive with the options...I mean how can a $46-$48k car go all the way up $14,000 in options....cmon when we bought are new house it had $20,000 in options and we have $200,000 in equity........the STS options are really overpriced....I cant picture alot of top of the line STS's around.

I like it but I dont love it.....for that money Ill have a BMW 545i in my driveway.
 
#26 ·
why is everyone complain that the sts is priced to high?? a fully loaded sts or dts has always (at least in the past few years) gone for roughly 58,000 FULLY LOADED. its been like that for a few years now.
 
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