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12K views 107 replies 26 participants last post by  gothicaleigh 
#1 ·
STS People,

Here are two pictures. The STS with options tops out in the mid 60K range (WAY OVER PRICED IMO). And also attached is the 2005 E500 Mercedes. Anyone else think that the STS looks a lot cheaper than the Mercedes? I was hoping for a broader more classic styling theme for the 2005 STS. Remember the bigon days when having a Seville meant you were doing better then the average guy on the block? Remeber the feel of sitting in the back of a car and actually fitting into it.

Here is where Benz is kicking Caddy's ass right now (regarding the 2005 STS)
1) The E 500 stayed with a classic/prestige grill theme (caddy did not)
2) The E 500 appears to be a bigger car and looks good when parked (The STS is sigma'd out and looks like a CTS XL which is what it is)
3) I'd bet an E500 Engine would have a lot more off the line kick than a 320 horse Northstar.

Again, I have owned Caddy's forever and most likely will not switch to MB but you have to see the points I am raising...
 

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#52 ·
Reason Why European Cars are more expensive

gothicaleigh said:
Exactly.

It's a Cadillac.
Not everyone should be able to afford one.
The price isn't out of line with it's competition.
In fact, it undercuts the price of cars it shares demographics with.

Expect a fully loaded STS to hover around $60k. This is very reasonable.
Other than that: "If you have to worry about the cost, you can't afford it."
Cadillac doesn't (and shouldn't) cater to everyone, especially people wanting new car luxury on a used car budget.
Let's all get along here and let's get this straight:

The reason why European cars are more expensive in the US retail market is for several reasons.
1)There are several other import costs and taxes.
2) Overall costs are typically higher to sell in foreign countries(admin expenses, legal etc)
3) General import mark-ups (additional features only sold here that add to the price)
4) Euro Mystique has a certain value in and of itself.

Here is where Cadillac is out of line:
1)OPTION PRICES: Take a CTS for example, it comes with crappy wheels and interior trimmings unless you upgrade for the big bucks packages. What ever happened to a standard car looking great and having wood accents? Doesn't BMW do this?

2) When did a car built here earn a spot to be priced to a point where there is no value in the product? If you are the only one in the state driving a certain type of car that is exclusive this is a whole different story. The STS is a mass production (and CTS parts sharing) car? Why the super price hike? I would spend the $$ on a new car but why do so if you feel "taken for a ride on oprtions?"

3) Would you rather have a 545i? or a STS for the same price? WHich car would have more appeal 3 years later? This is why STS shoud be a car that tops out at $50K
 
#53 ·
Three Word answer for you

Caddy Man said:
i have a quick questions: WHY IS EVERYONE GETTIN THEIR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER THE PRICE?!?! :rolleyes2 Go the cadillac.com, the 2005 sts starts at 40,995. A 2004 SLS stared at 46,770 for the bottom package. Loaded the SLS came out to about 55,000, and mind you thats SLS; STS was discontinued for 2004, so we are forgettin a few options like the 17 inch wheels and xenon lights that would send that price upwards to around 58,000. A fully loaded DTS with every option goes for 60,000, SO WHAT IF A FULLY LOADED 2005 STS GOES FOR 60,000 ALSO. People complain about the price, yet they bitch at cost cutting when it shows in the car. This is a premium luxury sedan, the price will be around there. The 2005 STS picks up price wise, right where a fully loaded CTS leaves off. People act like cadillac has never done this, well they have been doing it for a few years now on the STS and DTS. For those that feel the price is too high, we have the CTS, so all the bases get covered.
CTS
=
SIGMA
=
2005 STS
 
#54 ·
Wanting to stay American

Devil_concours said:
every single thread you made so far has been nothing but whining about cadillac's size when in fact mulitple members over 6' has commented that the cars are big enough for them. What is your real problem with cadillac? If you like the 300c go ahead and get one.
Because I want to stay with a car that is made by American people and is American managed.
 
#55 ·
Caddy Man said:
i have a quick questions: WHY IS EVERYONE GETTIN THEIR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER THE PRICE?!?! :rolleyes2 Go the cadillac.com, the 2005 sts starts at 40,995. A 2004 SLS stared at 46,770 for the bottom package. Loaded the SLS came out to about 55,000, and mind you thats SLS; STS was discontinued for 2004, so we are forgettin a few options like the 17 inch wheels and xenon lights that would send that price upwards to around 58,000. A fully loaded DTS with every option goes for 60,000, SO WHAT IF A FULLY LOADED 2005 STS GOES FOR 60,000 ALSO. People complain about the price, yet they bitch at cost cutting when it shows in the car. This is a premium luxury sedan, the price will be around there. The 2005 STS picks up price wise, right where a fully loaded CTS leaves off. People act like cadillac has never done this, well they have been doing it for a few years now on the STS and DTS. For those that feel the price is too high, we have the CTS, so all the bases get covered.
To address your price issue: We all know that GM is insane on every option mark-up. Take a Navigation system on a CTS, isn't it like $3000 extra on the car's price.(the car is a opel cousin for god's sakes). You think this option costs them anywhere near this price (no way). They should consider what Saturn does: Make a product in a segment for a price and you get what you think you will be getting. Don't bait everyone at $29,000 for a CTS or $40,000 for a V6 STS when people really walk into a show room and get a V8 equipped car in 4WD for $50K.
 
#58 ·
Re: Three Word answer for you

jerseyvette said:
CTS
=
SIGMA
=
2005 STS
You keep coming back to both of them being Sigma vehicles and I think this is where you are confused. Being of the same architecture does not mean they are the same cars.

They share similar frame construction and suspension. That is about as far as the similarities go. The vehicle dimensions are different and the wheelbase is different.

You could make just about anything on a Sigma platform. It's a very adaptable architecture.
 
#60 ·
jerseyvette said:
.(the car is a opel cousin for god's sakes).
Opel shares architecture with Holden, the GTO, and the Catera.
The CTS no longer has anything to do with anything that associated the Catera to Opel. The 3.2L is the last remnant of that affiliation and will be dropped in 2005.

jerseyvette said:
Don't bait everyone at $29,000 for a CTS or $40,000 for a V6 STS when people really walk into a show room and get a V8 equipped car in 4WD for $50K.
Don't bait everyone at $28,100 for a BMW 325i or $39,800 for a V6 BMW 525i when people really walk into a show room and get a V8 equipped car for $55,000 (545i base MSRP).
;)
 
#62 ·
Ok people put the pipes down!!! Instead of making these assumptions that are incorrect why don't you look at the measurement of the STS wheel base and that of the Benz. Also look at the interior dimensions and tell me which one is bigger. If some had a clue they would realize that the STS is a bigger car than any other model in its class. It competes with the 5 series and E class and it is closer in size to their bigger models. I will bet those that are commenting on the STS being this or that have not even seen it in person.
 
#63 ·
Ok so the Benz starts at $49000 and the STS starts at 41,000! And some of you think the STS is over priced. That is for the V6 benz at that. The V8 Cadillac starts at $48000 and that is cheaper than a base Benz with a V6. Like I said put the pipes down. Now look at these number and tell me how is it the STS is so small inside when it is bigger than the Benz.

BMW 5-series
Leg Room(front)....................41.5
Leg Room (rear).....................36.0
Head Room(front)..................37.7
Head Room(rear)...................37.9
Shoulder Room(front).............57.3
Shoulder Room(rear)...............57.2

Cadillac STS
Leg Room(front)...................42.6
Leg Room (rear)...................38.3
Head Room(front).................38.7
Head Room(rear)..................37.9
Shoulder Room(front)............58.6
Shoulder Room(rear)..............57.4

Mercedes 320 Sedan

Exterior Dimensions

Wheelbase 112.4 in/2,854 mm

Overall length 189.7 in/4,815 mm

Overall height 57.2 in/1,452 mm

Overall width 71.3 in/ 1,810 mm

Front track 61.4 in/ 1,559 mm

Rear track 61.1 in/1,552 mm

Coefficient of drag 0.27

Curb weight 3,691 lb/1,675 kg

Interior Dimensions1

Front headroom 37.4 in/951 mm

Rear headroom 37.7 in/957 mm

Front legroom 41.9 in/1,065 mm

Rear legroom 35.6 in/ 903 mm

Front shoulder Room 56.4 in/1,432 mm

Rear shoulder Room 56.1 in/1,424 mm

Cabin capacity 97.2 cu ft/2752.0 liters

Cargo capacity 15.9 cu ft/450.0 liters
 
#64 · (Edited)
Again:

Cadillac CTS
Leg Room (front)...................42.4
Leg Room (rear)....................36.2
Head Room (front).................38.9
Head Room (rear)..................36.9
Shoulder Room (front)............56.6
Shoulder Room (rear)..............56.2

BMW 5-series
Leg Room(front)....................41.5
Leg Room (rear).....................36.0
Head Room(front)..................37.7
Head Room(rear)...................37.9
Shoulder Room(front).............57.3
Shoulder Room(rear)...............57.2

2004 SeVille
Leg room(front).....................42.5
Leg Room(front).....................38.2
Head Room(front)...................38.2
Head Room(rear)....................38.0
Shoulder Room(front)..............59.1
Shoulder Room(rear)...............58.0

2005 STS
Leg Room(front)...................42.6
Leg Room (rear)...................38.3
Head Room(front).................38.7
Head Room(rear)..................37.9
Shoulder Room(front)............58.6
Shoulder Room(rear)..............57.4

BMW 7 series
Leg Room(front)...................41.9
Leg Room (rear)...................38.4
Head Room(front).................39.2
Head Room(rear)..................38.5
Shoulder Room(front)............59.3
Shoulder Room(rear)..............58.7

The STS looks to have very close to the interior dimensions of the largest Bimmer...
 
#65 ·
jerseyvette said:
To address your price issue: We all know that GM is insane on every option mark-up. Take a Navigation system on a CTS, isn't it like $3000 extra on the car's price.(
.

No...it's an 1800 option, but also includes the XM satellite radio and Bose upgrades. Try buying something similiar after market at your local electronics supermarket, and you'll be close to the same price..and it won't be nearly as well integrated into the car.
 
#69 ·
ya know whats gonna be frickin awsome about the STS is the sound system! straight from the caddy site:

The STS is the first vehicle to offer the Bose Studio Surround System


• Delivers true discrete 5.1 surround sound, a sound experience previously reserved only for cinemas and home theaters
• 15 advanced Bose speakers, the most of any prestige luxury sedan
• Plays the widest variety of disc formats available on the market today
• Delivers a 360° sound experience for each passenger
• Integrated with infotainment system to deliver exceptional audio from DVDs. When the vehicle is in park, passengers can also enjoy DVD video on an 8-inch diagonal display, one of the largest high-resolution displays available


360 degree surround sound for EVERY passenger?! how do they do it! i wanna hear!
 
#70 ·
megeebee said:
It's probably more accurate to say the a mid-line Infiniti looks like a Cadillac, rather than the other way 'round. Nissan/Infiniti has done a very good job of copying the themes of the Evoq concept car since its introduction in 1999.
Bzzzt!

Youre referring to the slow-selling M45 (but still outsold the Lexus GS430), which is an old design that came out in Japan as a Nissan in the late 90s. It was imported to the US as a stopgap until the new M45 comes out, which has MB/Jaguar lights and a G35 rear end. Every other Infiniti looks too round to look like a Cadillac (Q45, I35, FX, G35)

-Jesda
 
#71 ·
M STaR 013 said:
ya know whats gonna be frickin awsome about the STS is the sound system! straight from the caddy site:

The STS is the first vehicle to offer the Bose Studio Surround System


• Delivers true discrete 5.1 surround sound, a sound experience previously reserved only for cinemas and home theaters
• 15 advanced Bose speakers, the most of any prestige luxury sedan
• Plays the widest variety of disc formats available on the market today
• Delivers a 360° sound experience for each passenger
• Integrated with infotainment system to deliver exceptional audio from DVDs. When the vehicle is in park, passengers can also enjoy DVD video on an 8-inch diagonal display, one of the largest high-resolution displays available


360 degree surround sound for EVERY passenger?! how do they do it! i wanna hear!
8-track!
 
#76 ·
Caddy Man said:
i still dont see what you did :confused: did u widen the center console and dash just a little bit?
look at the right side of the nav screen above the wooden trim with sts.
 
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