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Cadillac STS Forum - 2005 through 2012 Discussion, Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500 in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by Msilva954 Maybe $58,000 canadian dollars.....but here Ive never seen one cadillac ever sell for that price.....a neighbor ...
  1. #31
    Caddy Man's Avatar
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    Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Msilva954
    Maybe $58,000 canadian dollars.....but here Ive never seen one cadillac ever sell for that price.....a neighbor of my grandfather got a brand new DTS when the 03' came out and he ended up paying $45,000 fully loaded with every option.....including the cloth top and vogues..........maybe we just get better deals in Florida but the only cadillac down here that sells for that price is the Escalade.
    you may have to check those details out about that sale...unless he had some special connection i have no idea how he got that car for that cheap. go to any website, even cadillac.com, i just went and built my DTS...just a base DTS costs 51,000 and with all the options fully loaded it comes out to 60,000, thats 9,000 dollars in options. same goes for the sts. go to any dealership and find a fully laoded sts or dts, they are all gonna be around 58-60,000

  2. #32
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    Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    There are to many insults on the 2005STS for me to qoute, in this thread! Gosh guys, most of you are just there sitting at your computers judging a vehicle youve barely seen in person if at all. As for the STS on its interior being small hey you gota sit in the thing first and the smaller it is means there is a greater attention to somewhere else in the car likely like quality materials or making it lighter. The pricing is fine, it probably costs a lot of money to build a car as quality as it prob is. Also do you think GM just came up with the price out of their butt with no thought, NO! They put a lot of money into this car and a lot of thought, unlike most of you they are trained in the matters of pricing vehicles to compete(trust them). Someone said, "it wont sell" or something like that, well its GONA OKAY cause its a quality well engineered car and its unique not just another Lexus or BMW it's a Cadillac and its better. Have some faith and hope. As for the first to pictures the STS is paid no justice in that pic and the E 500 looks great. The STS is clasy in a different way it has modern style, think of it in front of a modern art gallery with rich folks smoozin away. :drinker

    2005 STS is a true Cadillac all the way down to the brake fluid!

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    frank78 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Cool Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    i hope some body makes a after-market grill for the sts. just like the cts plastic grill lol...........

  4. #34
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    Re: Putting it on the table

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    I'm sorry that was a Freudian Slip, I meant to say STS (the one letter difference is worth 30K in price yeah right!)
    only accurate if you are comparing base price of one and fully loaded price of another.


    On another note. To all the 300C lovers. If you think luxury car owners want to drive a car that bases around 25k and they see EVERYWHERE, then your crazy. And if you link me to some article about people trading in their Benz's and lexus's for Chryslers, ill show you a bunch of pissed of people in a few months when they realize chrysler is selling like 25k of these a month.

    Exclusivity matters. Why do you think the AMG's and M's are popular? Power? not likely.

  5. #35
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    Re: Putting it on the table

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    My version of the facts:
    1) The Chrysler seems like a lot tougher of a car (based on pedigree and mechanical components) Than a CTS , I'm sorry that was a Freudian Slip, I meant to say STS (the one letter difference is worth 30K in price yeah right!)
    2) The STS is a major disappointment and a safe bet that will all go to hell for GM when people "avoid" the car.
    3)We're all pretty pissed that the German-owned and manager Diamler Chrysler is hitting home with car lovers in America more than GM is with the 300C.
    4) Deville's UNI-BODY platform is a cousin of a 1985 Cadillac Seville and we are sick of living in the past and getting charged out the butt for it.
    5)Cadillac has abandoned people like me who need to fit in cars and want value and exclusivity in a brand.
    6) Germans (although stodgy in general style) still have the edge in making cars that "we wish we had".
    7) GM's cadillac engineers continue to disappoint on everything but the Escalade in 2004.

    Did I say the cars were too small? Oh yes I did..sorry for repeating myself...

    Please chime in here where you agree. Every pro-2005 STS poster either works for GM or is a dealer. I want true customers like me who would step upa nd buy a new Cadillac....(nothing against dealers but we all know that your compensation plan dictates your behavior and you will have a bias in your posts).

    Mr. Jersey Vette
    The STS doesnt really appeal to me, just got a CTS-V, but the STS is still a hell of a value. As for everything comeing out of Cadillac is a disappointment, I think that there coming out with the best quality and valued vehicles in the market. The only benz that really appeals to me is the E55, which is nothing that I would trade my V for. You think prices are expensive, look at it as "keeping the brand exclusive".

  6. #36
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    Post Re: Putting it on the table

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Please chime in here where you agree. Every pro-2005 STS poster either works for GM or is a dealer. I want true customers like me who would step upa nd buy a new Cadillac....(nothing against dealers but we all know that your compensation plan dictates your behavior and you will have a bias in your posts).
    Ignoring your uneducated 'versions of the facts' (most people just call that opinion), here is what has been said by people that don't work for GM or are dealers and have actually driven the car:

    "Cadillac has finally endowed one of its new generation four-doors with an interior that needs no excuses. The cabin of this STS not only looks and feels sumptuous but is also largely devoid of the visual and electronic overkill that infests many of it's competitors. As we've come to expect from the Sigma-platform cars, the STS drives beautifully with quick reflexes, excellent grip, and the kind of honest responsesthat let you drive it perfectly smoothly without brain-straining concentration. The ride could be more absorbant on rough city streets, and such a large car deserves more rear-seat and trunk space, but this STS is unquestionably the best Cadillac I've driven."
    ~Csaba Csere

  7. #37
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    Re: Putting it on the table

    "The Cadillac team is utterly upbeat about this car. If American luxury-sports-sedan buyers have been jumping ship to European cars and their peculiar sense of sensibilities for a concrete reason (and we think they have), then the people at Cadillac have seen the light. Hallelujah!
    Here's a Caddy that drives like BMW's did before that company's infatuation wit technology began injecting Novocain between driver and machine. Damn, this STS unwinds a chunk of California/'s coastline like no Caddy ever has, and that's in the cushy-riding model without the 1SG package that I drove on the Left Coast. Thanks, Cadillac.
    "
    ~Barry Winfield

  8. #38
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    Re: Putting it on the table

    "Here, finally, is something I thought I'd never see: a Cadillac that wants to get in the ring with the big cars from BMW and Mercedes.
    Those 'postmodern' Caddys of the 90s made gestures in that direction, but they always carried the burdensome trappings of the big sprawling American car: sleepy suspensions, big for bigness's sake, styling that seemed behind the times. The new car has a sport ride as hard as any BMW's, a very strong V8, a sporty manual-style shifting function, and a rock-solid feel much like an... E-class Mercedes. The STS's price undercuts that of the S-class and 7-series, but the real problem is this: Will buyers accept the idea of a $62,000 Cadillac?
    "
    ~Steve Spence

  9. #39
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    Re: Putting it on the table

    "Disable the traction control, summon some minor brake torque, and you can paint 10 feet of rubber stripes."

    "Sixty mph arrives in six seconds flat, same as what a 745i can manage.
    Course the BMW goes on to eat the quarter-mile in 14.6 seconds at 97 mph.
    Woah! Same as the STS.
    What the Cadillac does that the $69,195 BMW doesn't is achieve a top speed of 154 mph. Moreover, Cadillac has calibrated the traction control to allow you to bark the tires at step-off without imposing Big Brother's mechanical hand of moderation. Nice."

    "Fact is, the previous STS was never really a performance car. It was a luxury sedan that simply didn't embarrass itself in the hills. This new STS, in contrast, is barking at the city limits of hot-rod-dom, notably in it's edgy ride, booming acceleration, and tenacious handling."

    "For decades, Cadillac seemed content to stay a step ahead of Lincoln. Now, with the STS -and the SRX before it- you really DO get the feeling the division is serious about competing with foreign luxury brands. When our test car arrived, chief engineer Jim Frederico pointed proudly at panel gaps that have been narrowed to three millimeters from the old car's five. Then he pointed to the top of the door frames, which blend almost invisibly into the roof in a costly "Dutch hem" design. "Let's see Mercedes match THAT," he said.
    When's the last time you heard a Lincoln guy say that?
    "
    ~John Phillips, Car&Driver - August 2004

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    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    Quote Originally Posted by majax
    There are to many insults on the 2005STS for me to qoute, in this thread! Gosh guys, most of you are just there sitting at your computers judging a vehicle youve barely seen in person if at all. As for the STS on its interior being small hey you gota sit in the thing first and the smaller it is means there is a greater attention to somewhere else in the car likely like quality materials or making it lighter. The pricing is fine, it probably costs a lot of money to build a car as quality as it prob is. Also do you think GM just came up with the price out of their butt with no thought, NO! They put a lot of money into this car and a lot of thought, unlike most of you they are trained in the matters of pricing vehicles to compete(trust them). Someone said, "it wont sell" or something like that, well its GONA OKAY cause its a quality well engineered car and its unique not just another Lexus or BMW it's a Cadillac and its better. Have some faith and hope. As for the first to pictures the STS is paid no justice in that pic and the E 500 looks great. The STS is clasy in a different way it has modern style, think of it in front of a modern art gallery with rich folks smoozin away. :drinker

    2005 STS is a true Cadillac all the way down to the brake fluid!
    Whatever you are smoking please share it with the rest of us so that we can share the same version of "reality!"
    1) NO SIGMA car is worth 60K anywhere in the world(now or in 10 years).
    2) The New STS (Which I have inspected closely in person here in NJ) is super-small looking and the interior is essentially a changed version of what you see in the CTS. Why 60K!!???!!! I just do not see where the rationale is for charging so much for the car.
    3) The 2005 STS is a mid to smaller sized car from an interior size perspective. This was fine with the CTS because we all saw it as generally a competitor the the BMW 3 Series. It never really copeted wityh the E Class Mercedes or 5 Series BMW. These buyers were in a different segment. $40K is C CLass MB or 3 Series Beamer territoiry which CTS is really a great fit and value for. Now when you try to shove an enlarged body on a CTS SIGMA platform and slap a 545i price tag on it you HAVE TO BE NUTS.
    4) I am all around disappointed with the STS froma size and styling perspective. Even the 1992-1997 Seville was considered a bit bland at introduction by some but it is a hell of a car in style and in interior domensions.
    5) Maybe in Asia where people are smaller Caddy hopes to make a killing. But I'd see buyers over there going for a 300C type of shape over a 2005 STS Sigma shape.
    6) Since every other car that Cadillac makes is on the same platform the STS pricing sghould be more in line with a 2004 SLS for a 4 wheel drive 2005 STS.

    Please respond after you look at the car in person.

  11. #41
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    Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Whatever you are smoking please share it with the rest of us so that we can share the same version of "reality!"
    1) NO SIGMA car is worth 60K anywhere in the world(now or in 10 years).
    Why not? It is the best architecture that GM has ever put into production. It is also proving itself to be more formidable than some of the best that Germany has to offer in terms of rigidity and performance applications. Why not ask German sized prices?

    2) The New STS (Which I have inspected closely in person here in NJ) is super-small looking and the interior is essentially a changed version of what you see in the CTS. Why 60K!!???!!! I just do not see where the rationale is for charging so much for the car.
    I see them all the time here in Michigan (one of my neighbors has been driving one) and I drive a CTS. I can assure you that the interior looks very little like the one in the CTS. Other than the steering wheel, there is actually very little in common...
    There is another thread on this forum somewhere that compares it to it's competition and it looks very nice when placed side by side. Go take a look.

    3) The 2005 STS is a mid to smaller sized car from an interior size perspective. This was fine with the CTS because we all saw it as generally a competitor the the BMW 3 Series. It never really copeted wityh the E Class Mercedes or 5 Series BMW. These buyers were in a different segment. $40K is C CLass MB or 3 Series Beamer territoiry which CTS is really a great fit and value for. Now when you try to shove an enlarged body on a CTS SIGMA platform and slap a 545i price tag on it you HAVE TO BE NUTS.
    The interior space of the CTS is almost identical to that of the 5 series. The STS gains a couple of inches in the rear and at the shoulders. If it is a 'smaller sized car', than so is everything else in the mid-sized luxury sport sedan class.

    BMW 5-series
    Leg Room(front)....................41.5
    Leg Room (rear).....................36.0
    Head Room(front)..................37.7
    Head Room(rear)...................37.9
    Shoulder Room(front).............57.3
    Shoulder Room(rear)...............57.2

    Cadillac CTS
    Leg Room (front)...................42.4
    Leg Room (rear)....................36.2
    Head Room (front).................38.9
    Head Room (rear)..................36.9
    Shoulder Room (front)............56.6
    Shoulder Room (rear)..............56.2

    4) I am all around disappointed with the STS from a size and styling perspective. Even the 1992-1997 Seville was considered a bit bland at introduction by some but it is a hell of a car in style and in interior domensions.
    There isn't a whole lot of difference in interior dimensions:

    2004 SeVille
    Leg room(front).....................42.5
    Leg Room(front).....................38.2
    Head Room(front)...................38.2
    Head Room(rear)....................38.0
    Shoulder Room(front)..............59.1
    Shoulder Room(rear)...............58.0

    2005 STS
    Leg Room(front)...................42.6
    Leg Room (rear)...................38.3
    Head Room(front).................38.7
    Head Room(rear)..................37.9
    Shoulder Room(front)............58.6
    Shoulder Room(rear)..............57.4

    5) Maybe in Asia where people are smaller Caddy hopes to make a killing. But I'd see buyers over there going for a 300C type of shape over a 2005 STS Sigma shape.
    Yeah, I notice how all of their companies' (Lexus, Acura, Honda, etc.)designs look like 300's... Show me how you decided that asians prefer a '300 shape', because I see nothing like it over there...
    Asia is just in love with large cars too...

    6) Since every other car that Cadillac makes is on the same platform the STS pricing should be more in line with a 2004 SLS for a 4 wheel drive 2005 STS.
    Why when the 05 STS is better in every way than the 04 SLS? The two share nothing in common. An AWD 320hp version of the STS should cost no more than a FWD 275hp SLS?(and that's not even taking the rest of the improvements into account) Again, I question your logic...

    By your platform-reasoning, a Crossfire would cost the same as the Mercedes it shares platforms with. An EXT would cost the same as the Avalanche. An XLR would cost no more than a Corvette. Etc, etc, etc.

    Please respond after you look at the car in person.
    I suggest you do the same, because based on your comments here I am very suspicious that you ever saw one up close...

  12. #42
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    The Solution to our 2005 STS problem

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh


    I suggest you do the same, because based on your comments here I am very suspicious that you ever saw one up close...
    I saw the car last Friday night parked in front of Headquarters Plaza Hotel in Morristown NJ at 7:00 PM. Is that enough information to convince you that I saw the car? I wish I did not because it was a disappointment. I also saw the car at the NY auto show last spring.

    Here is a solution for GM:
    1) Keep the 2005 STS and lower the price to top out at 50K with options.
    2) Since the new Mercedes Benz S Class cars look good but are technically crap (according to the posts I saw tonight on mercedesforums.com) Cadillac needs to jump into this car larger AWD car now or by 2007 latest. The 2007 Cadillac needs to have more front and rear leg room along with better rear head room that a MB S500V (the 2006 model coming out as a new design).
    3) This "2007 sister of Cadillac 16" needs to have some of the "Bellagio level luxuries" dropped to make it a $65-80K Car.
    4) This next cadillac needs to have a completely new underframe apart from Sigma and have absolutely nothing in common witha CTS, SRX or Deville. The only feature to carry over (which was from Corvette anyway is the magnetic ride control)
    5) I want a really aggressive car that is better looking than the Audi future car looking styles and more in line witha producting Cadillac 16 type of car.
    6) Shave the "Rolls Phantom" level of niceties and make the car a Lincoln Town Car eater at a audi A8 price on the high end.\

    So that everyone knows I love GM and America: I absolutely have loved every caddy I have owned and driven I am in my 30s and every year of my life my family has owned different caddys on almost every platform (except the Diesel versions, Allante and Cimarron). We need to politically put pressue on GM and re-direct their marketing and engineering executives away from the "follower path". Every write up has stated that the nes STS is a great comparison to MB, Lexus and BMW...etc..etc.. Our country was not formed by doing what was safte that other people approved of (Sorry John Kerry) but rater it was based on risk taking, hard work and quality. Cadillac, I want to always own your cars and they are a part of my life and persona. PLEASE don't keep engineering me out of your cars and make something that really LEADS BMW, Mercedes and Lexus into new avant garde' areas of auto manufacturing techniques and designs.

    GM STOP PLAYING IT SAFE AS YOU DID WITH 2005 STS.

  13. #43
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: The Solution to our 2005 STS problem

    every single thread you made so far has been nothing but whining about cadillac's size when in fact mulitple members over 6' has commented that the cars are big enough for them. What is your real problem with cadillac? If you like the 300c go ahead and get one.

  14. #44
    jerseyvette is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    Let's have a poll:
    Which Car's engineers took the safe route? I think this shoudl silence anyone critical of my 2005 STS comments: USA can do better than this.
    Attached Images

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    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyvette
    Let's have a poll:
    Which Car's engineers took the safe route? I think this shoudl silence anyone critical of my 2005 STS comments: USA can do better than this.
    as i said before you're once again comparing 2 different class of cars.
    CTS - 3series/C-class
    STS - 5series/E-class
    DTS - 7series/S-class

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