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Cadillac Forums: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-06, 07:16 AM
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Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

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For those who didn't see my old post regarding my fuel gauge problem... the problem is:


it's not actually a problem... but something a little bit annoying... whenever I step hard (not really hard) on the pedal and force the revolutions to go up to 4000 rpm or more, I stop at a traffic light and I put the transmission on "N", the fuel gauge drops down 1/4 or 1/3 of the tank... then in 5 minutes it goes back normal...

everytime i tell them about it, they keep on saying "we will fix it" but they don't... finally i met an honest guy there and he told me that it's an electrical problem he saw on some Cadillacs... but they need to take a unit (i dunno which unit) and send it to some GM Regional center to fix it... means my car will stay there for 2 weeks...

However, he told me not to fix it... coz it has absolutely no effect on anything... at all...


what do you think?
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Old 11-02-06, 09:18 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

I think cars need to go back to analog gauges. When was the last time someone had to take their car in for a fuel gage problem when it was connected to afloat in the tank. It seems that everything on this car controlled by “wire” has some sort of problem. The fuel gage is a giant inconvenience. I am constantly filling my car with gas, because I never know what the real level is. I can go from half to almost empty in no time flat. The dealer already installed the latest software for the 1/8th tank issue but I still have zero confidence in the actual level.

Don't get me started on the nav ansd radio/bt issues. Again all by wire. Some hard buttons would be nice. But those are problems too, IE express windows; nothing but problems. All issues the dealer can't seem to fix.

Still I love this car, I just wish they would leave well enough alone. If it aint broke don't fix it.
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Old 11-03-06, 11:57 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

with every new tech introduced, more faults appear... is it a must?... or do they just "rush" to produce things?... or is it about the quality?...

let's take any hi tech car for instance... engine, body, suspension from the car manufacturer... keyless entry from some other manuf. ... parking sensors from a third one... nav from a fourth... stereo and speakers from a fifth... AC from a sixth... etc...

can they get all of these integrated well?....


if there are lots of problems with nav/radio, i believe they should think again about "Denso"...
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Old 11-04-06, 03:07 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

Well not that there aren't many things to chat about but keep in mind that Lexus uses the same Denso base unit as well...
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Old 11-07-06, 01:04 AM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

That's right...

ok if the whole unit is from Denso, then why Cadillac's has much better graphics and Lexus' is much faster ?...

or is it a matter of same software but different hardwares?... then who made those hardware ?...
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Old 11-07-06, 06:50 AM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

First of all, your car doesn't have "one" fuel level sensor it has two.

Secondly, EPA mandates that the ECM/PCM must know how much fuel is in the tank at all times so it can run tests on the EVAP system. That means the fuel level sensors report directly to the ECM and the ECM then calculates the fuel level based on the two inputs. Then it takes that data and broadcasts it to the IPC for display.

Third in play here is the fact that due to the newer fuel senders, the fuel tanks no longer have internal baffles. Years ago they used baffles to keep the fuel from sloshing around so it wouldn't all slide away from the sender when you slammed on the brakes or when you accelrated. If you had low fuel and you did this the fuel system would starve and kill the car. With the elimination of the baffles you have a large quantity of fuel in a big open container so it's subject to the forces acting on the car. If the reading was not "buffered" by the ECM the gage would be all over the place while you were driving.

Lastly, the buffering. The PCM calculates an average reading based on the live inputs from the sensors to reflect a more smooth reading on the gage.
When you stop the car and put it in park or neutral, the buffer is eliminated, so you get a more "live" reading.
If you go slowly and slam on the brakes, get the fuel sloshing and throw it in P or N you are going to see the reading go nuts, that's normal due to the way the system is designed.
There is no "fix" and there is nothing to "send out" to get "repaired".
Not sure what your dealer is telling you, did they give you any more detail than that?

This bulletin is for Escalade but the same principals apply. It's worse on Escalade because of the shape of the tank.
Quote:
Condition/Concern:
Fuel gauge may be inaccurate or drops to empty (E) and the low fuel light comes on. Further analysis may reveal that this condition is most apparent when the gauge is at or below the quarter (1/4) tank mark.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Try to duplicate the concern by driving the vehicle a short distance in reverse and then stopping (to make fuel slosh), shifting transmission to park or neutral and then shifting to drive. The fuel gauge will have a tendency to read lower than actual. The gauge will take a few minutes to show the actual fuel level. The VCM/PCM is the buffer for the fuel gauge.

On a Automatic Transmission no buffering takes place when the transmission is in park or neutral. This is a NORMAL characteristic & NO repairs are necessary.
On a Manual Transmissions, the fuel gauge is buffered in all gears and neutral. Since the VCM/PCM has no way to know what gear it is in, there is a timer which starts to count up when the clutch is depressed. When this timer reaches its calibrated value (this value will vary), the filtering switches to the "fast" filter (no buffering). When the clutch is releases the filter then switches to the slow filter (system is Buffered). This is a NORMAL characteristic & NO repairs are necessary.
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Old 11-07-06, 12:00 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

Oh I c... Thanks for the info, that explains a lot...

also explains why the same situation doesn't happen when the tank is full...

anyways agency people don't give full details, I doubt they know details... all they said is that it's an electrical problem and some unit should be sent for a fix...


but i have a loan CTS now... it doesn't do this... does it have a different way of sensing tank fuel ??
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Old 11-07-06, 04:16 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

The CTS has an almost identical system, I think the tank is a bit smaller.
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Old 11-08-06, 01:36 AM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

Smaller than STS !!... STS is the smallest tank i've ever seen in a luxury car...


ok, i will go the agent and try the test drive STS to see if the same thing exists... and i will let you know
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Old 11-14-06, 12:51 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

I had a similar experience last weekend. I took the car drag racing in Atlanta, started out with 3/4 tank, made 3 runs down the 1/4 mile and the gauge was showing almost empty.

When i got back on the interstate headed home I flipped over to the MTE diaplay and watched as both the miles remaining and the fuel gauge both went UP!!!

I figured that the computer was feeding the needle instead of a direct ohm signal as in the past... makes sense, I like it, but it will take a while to get used to it.

Thanks for the explanation ewill3rd.
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Old 11-14-06, 06:54 PM
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Re: Update: Fuel gauge problem... Finally they told me what's wrong

The complexity of these systems make them operate strangely.
Even more so when something goes wrong.

It's more complicated than some techs even know. I started dealing with systems like this in Corvette so I am already familiar with them.

No problem on the assist.
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