300C Daimler News WSJ will STS reflect the same $$

[jerseyvette]

For as "Boxy an Crude" as some are pointing the new Chrysler's to be it is paying off for Chrysler., What I would echo to GM engineering and design is that this shows that people are looking for modern yet traditionally shaped cars. Magnum, Merceses S and 300C all have somewhat of an intimidating and brawny apprearance which is really turning the check writers on. Also I heard another fact that the 300C is the first or second place car with the "shortest time on the dealer lots" as a new car. The true litmus test will be in numbers and profit. I'd like to have one of this forums experts do a numbers breakdown of exactly how many 2005 STS's are sold 6 months after intro (like with the 300C). This will give us all proof of what people really think of the cars's design. Let's congratulate Chrysler for a job well done with 300C .

DaimlerChrysler's Profit Surges;
Cordes Is Named Mercedes Head

A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP
July 29, 2004 10:04 a.m.

STUTTGART, Germany -- DaimlerChrysler AG Thursday reported a fivefold jump in second-quarter net income, propelled by a sharp turnaround at its Chrysler division in the U.S. and big gains by its commercial-vehicles unit.

DaimlerChrysler said its net income for the second quarter rose to €554 million ($668.1 million), or 55 European cents a share, from €109 million, or 11 cents a share, for the year-earlier quarter. Revenue increased 9%.

The auto maker also said it named Eckhard Cordes as the new head of its key Mercedes Car Group, replacing Juergen Hubbert, who is set to retire in April 2005. But it said operating profit at Mercedes fell 18% to €703 million in the latest quarter.

Revenue rose to €37.1 billion, primarily as a result of higher unit sales at Chrysler and the commercial-vehicles divisions, the company said. It said revenue was hurt by the appreciation of the euro against the U.S. dollar. Adjusted for currency-translation effects, revenue increased 13%.

Chrysler bounced back from last year's terrible second quarter when it posted an operating loss of €948 million. This year it reported a second-quarter operating profit of €516 million as new versions of its Dodge Magnum and Durango, 300C car and new minivans boosted unit sales by 3% to 759,800 vehicles.

DaimlerChrysler said overall unit sales rose 10% to 1.3 million vehicles.

DaimlerChrysler said the gains at Chrysler and commercial vehicles offset the impact of Mitsubishi Motors Corp.'s net loss.

Mr. Cordes, the current head of DaimlerChrysler's commercial vehicles division, will take over as head of the luxury car maker from Oct. 1.

At that time, Mr. Hubbert will move to chair DaimlerChrysler's executive automotive committee, which coordinates product and brand issues across the company.

The Mercedes Car Group manages the Mercedes-Benz, Smart and Maybach brands and is DaimlerChrysler's main breadwinner. In 2003, it accounted for more than 60% of DaimlerChrysler's operating profit.

Mr. Cordes's appointment was widely expected and clears up the uncertainty over Mercedes's future. Wolfgang Bernhard was originally expected to take charge at Mercedes but was abruptly pulled off the job after falling out with union officials.

DaimlerChrysler said Mr. Bernhard is leaving the company immediately. The company said Mr. Bernhard's departure was "by mutual consent." Mr. Bernhard has been in talks with other auto companies, including Volkswagen AG, about taking on an executive position.

Andreas Renschler, who currently manages the Smart brand, will replace Mr. Cordes as head of commercial vehicles. As part of the move, Mr. Renschler was made a member of DaimlerChrysler's management board for a three-year term.

Ulrich Walker, a former executive at DaimlerChrysler's Japanese partner Mitsubishi Motors Corp., will replace Mr. Renschler as the new head of Smart.

Mr. Cordes's appointment comes amid slipping earnings at Mercedes, which is preparing to roll out new models. Second-quarter operating profit, which is due to be reported later Thursday, is seen falling 8% to €791 million.

Mr. Cordes's main job will be to improve profitability at Mercedes-Benz, which has consistently lagged behind its chief rival Bayerische Motoren Werke AG. Seen as a competent manager and experienced turnaround specialist, Mr. Cordes will also need to improve quality at Mercedes, which has fallen sharply in major studies, analysts said.

Write to the Online Journal's editors at newseditors@wsj.com

[megeebee]

What use is a comparison of the sales volumes between cars in different market segments? The 300 ranges from about 25K to 36K. The STS starts at 41K and rises to the lower 60K range.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

I'd like to have one of this forums experts do a numbers breakdown of exactly how many 2005 STS's are sold 6 months after intro (like with the 300C). This will give us all proof of what people really think of the cars's design. Let's congratulate Chrysler for a job well done with 300C .

your gonna compare sales from a 25k base model to sales of a 41k base model? and somehow use those results to prove that one looks better than the other?

Re-think taking my advice.....STOP starting threads

[gothicaleigh]

I will tell you right now that the 300C will sell more than the STS. They aren't positioned at the same market. This is good. We don't want Cadillac to compete with Chrysler, as that would be taking a step backwards. What Cadillac is targeting is it's sister company, Mercedes. The true gauge of sales will be how well Cadillac sells compared to Mercedes.

Also remember, cars like the 300C would not have existed had Cadillac decided not to go forward with it's Art&Science design philosophy. It is the company that proved hard edges can still work on modern car designs. When Cadillac unveiled the Evoq concept in 1999, many companies saw what the future looked like. When the sales of the CTS turned Cadillac around from a struggling manufacturer into a world player, the other manufacturers took notice and followed suit.

What Chrysler has done with the 300C is amazing and just what America needed. A desirable high-powered RWD sedan. Don't get me wrong, for the price it is an excellent car in 345hp Hemi mode. It is the modern interpretation of cars like the '96 Impala SS. It is what the Mercury Marauder dreams it could be.

But it isn't a true Luxury Sport Sedan. Take a test drive and you will see what I mean.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Brett

your gonna compare sales from a 25k base model to sales of a 41k base model? and somehow use those results to prove that one looks better than the other?

Re-think taking my advice.....STOP starting threads

If you block me from making posts it will set a bad image for your site. Forums and Chat Rooms are designed to share all types of stories and for legitimate ones a way to share knowledge and research.

Why do you get offended when I post facts and opinions. Are you only interested in people that want to sell the 2005 STS? I am posting because I find what I read as very interesting. You decide what you want to do and the impression you give to the readers of your site.

Regarding your question on the 300C. First of all the 300 (without a C) is the base model which is absolutely not up to par with the STS in general categories (interior options, wheels, has a V6 etc). The 300C is the car everyone seems to be talking about with a Hemi V8, amazing luxury and ample room for 4 tall people. if you take a car that costs $80K and you sell 2 and make a profit of 40K it is srtill a better investment for a manufacturer than making 10 cars for $20K and making $1800 on each car. Dollar to dollar it would make more sense to sell the two cars for $80K.

The same holds true with STS for 2005. I want a member that has connections to reveal in 6-12 months exactly how the car's sales ramp up. What companies do usually is take mopdels that sell slow and offer incentives or just al out re-tool and replace the line (GM did this with the 2003 Aurora when they dumped the name they dumped the car).

A little fair competition is a good thing you will see in business. I hope you do the right thinga nd continue to let me post as several people out there have commented that thety agree with several of my opinions.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by gothicaleigh

I will tell you right now that the 300C will sell more than the STS. They aren't positioned at the same market. This is good. We don't want Cadillac to compete with Chrysler, as that would be taking a step backwards. What Cadillac is targeting is it's sister company, Mercedes. The true gauge of sales will be how well Cadillac sells compared to Mercedes.
...

But it isn't a true Luxury Sport Sedan. Take a test drive and you will see what I mean.

We agree and disagree:

Here is where we I agree with you:
The 300C is a breath of fresh air for anyone that appreciates a great looking and functional car (so is the CTS, Escalade and XLR). That said I agree that the car has overall many outside of the box design qualities.

Here is where we disagree:
1) The 300C is surely a luxury car. I have driven it and teh support from the seats and the general appointments are very expensive looking, There are a few inexpensive things that make it less posh (such as the green LCD looking lights on the speedu and the imitation wood steering wheel).

Regarding who Cadillac is going after to compete with. it is certainly true that the CTS kicks the butt out of a 3 series including the V-M series match up. Overall it is a superior car. The E Class/ STS competition needs time to see how it pans out, STS does have some advantages because any 8 cylinder German car is super-expensive which works against them. The only place I think Cadillac needs an additional product is in the premium luxury space. This means a large (high speed designed) touring car. When you read owner reviews on S 500's for example people brag of huge amounts of interior space and a great feel over long trips. I think if the Sigma platform can be made for a wider and more elongated car (this may be the next sigma deville?) there will again be a car competing in the large luxury car space from Cadillac. Heck I'll wait around but for now I see S Class and 745Li standing along without any rear contenders in that space.

Let's hope for Cadillac 16!

[gothicaleigh]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

We agree and disagree:

Here is where we I agree with you:
The 300C is a breath of fresh air for anyone that appreciates a great looking and functional car (so is the CTS, Escalade and XLR). That said I agree that the car has overall many outside of the box design qualities.

Here is where we disagree:
1) The 300C is surely a luxury car. I have driven it and teh support from the seats and the general appointments are very expensive looking, There are a few inexpensive things that make it less posh (such as the green LCD looking lights on the speedu and the imitation wood steering wheel).

Regarding who Cadillac is going after to compete with. it is certainly true that the CTS kicks the butt out of a 3 series including the V-M series match up. Overall it is a superior car. The E Class/ STS competition needs time to see how it pans out, STS does have some advantages because any 8 cylinder German car is super-expensive which works against them. The only place I think Cadillac needs an additional product is in the premium luxury space. This means a large (high speed designed) touring car. When you read owner reviews on S 500's for example people brag of huge amounts of interior space and a great feel over long trips. I think if the Sigma platform can be made for a wider and more elongated car (this may be the next sigma deville?) there will again be a car competing in the large luxury car space from Cadillac. Heck I'll wait around but for now I see S Class and 745Li standing along without any rear contenders in that space.

Let's hope for Cadillac 16!

<applauds>

Now you're making sense.
I do see the 300 as a lesser car than you do. When I drove it I was impressed that it came out from Chrysler and is leagues ahead of many of GM's offerings recently. However, the total package didn't seem to come together enough in terms of handling, quality, and feel to me to compete with the BMWs, mercedes, and new Cadillacs of the world. It falls just short in comparison, maybe after a few years of tweaking or the release of an upscale version and it will be there. Just not as it is right now.

The STS is not the car you are awaiting. The car you want is the Sigma version of the DeVille that will be released in 2008. Yeah, I know that is a long way off, but I would rather see Cadillac slow down just a bit and fine tune what they have rather than rush the new DeVille to market and make a mess of things when they are so close to becoming the Standard Of The World again...

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by gothicaleigh

<applauds>

Now you're making sense.
I do see the 300 as a lesser car than you do. When I drove it I was impressed that it came out from Chrysler and is leagues ahead of many of GM's offerings recently. However, the total package didn't seem to come together enough in terms of handling, quality, and feel to me to compete with the BMWs, mercedes, and new Cadillacs of the world. It falls just short in comparison, maybe after a few years of tweaking or the release of an upscale version and it will be there. Just not as it is right now.

The STS is not the car you are awaiting. The car you want is the Sigma version of the DeVille that will be released in 2008. Yeah, I know that is a long way off, but I would rather see Cadillac slow down just a bit and fine tune what they have rather than rush the new DeVille to market and make a mess of things when they are so close to becoming the Standard Of The World again...

We agree! Now you see us NJ folks are not always a pain in the Butt :-)

Regarding rushing to market: This is what (IMO) BMW and Mercedes have been doing as their cars have major quality rpoblems (a guy at my work had a 2002 C320 and said it was an absolute nightmare). The STS/SLS's we have here were continually better in quality and I am proud to say that. It's not even a question that Cadillac's quality leads the world right now!

AMEN WE AGREE!

[miscreant]

First, I'd like to point out to YOU, jerseyvette, before you comment again about you don't want to hear dealers countering your statements.

First, let me say I'm not a saleperson. Two, I've helped several people here buy from their dealer, while have yet to sell a car to anyone myself. Three, I'm not just a Cadillac dealer. I'm a complete autogroup. I'm JUST a Cadillac fan, period.

Lastly, while the 300 is a craze right now, I simply bring a car to the table, and place it face up - PT Cruiser...A Craze when it first came out, and now dead in the water. Our Chrysler store can't give them away, and haven't been able to for over a year. I'll also point out that the availablility of the 300, specifically the 300C is so low now, that demand is higher than supply. I guarantee that the 300 will have major rebates in 1 year.

And again, I think comparing the 300 to the STS is another poor comparison. More people can afford the 300 and 300C, so they are bound to sell more to begin with.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by miscreant

First, I'd like to point out to YOU, jerseyvette, before you comment again about you don't want to hear dealers countering your statements.

First, let me say I'm not a saleperson. Two, I've helped several people here buy from their dealer, while have yet to sell a car to anyone myself. Three, I'm not just a Cadillac dealer. I'm a complete autogroup. I'm JUST a Cadillac fan, period.

Lastly, while the 300 is a craze right now, I simply bring a car to the table, and place it face up - PT Cruiser...A Craze when it first came out, and now dead in the water. Our Chrysler store can't give them away, and haven't been able to for over a year. I'll also point out that the availablility of the 300, specifically the 300C is so low now, that demand is higher than supply. I guarantee that the 300 will have major rebates in 1 year.

And again, I think comparing the 300 to the STS is another poor comparison. More people can afford the 300 and 300C, so they are bound to sell more to begin with.

Regarding my dealer comments, there is nothing wrong with dealers and I respect most of them as professionals. Where I was coming from was that certain members were very "rapt" in enthiuasm around pushing the STS to be a one shoe fits all car for everyone. I am in my 30s and personally prefer the type of car that foremost "looks like something impressive" at a valet or parked outside my club. It also is equally as important to me that it is roomy inside. Here is my dilemma: I want to always drive proudly an American engineered and made luxury car..period. If Cadillac continues to make cars smaller and smaller it hurts people like me because I really like driving Cadillacs and if I do not fit I really get left out of all the fun.

The reason I am such a "Troll" as people like Bret like to say is because I really liek Cadillacs more thananyone else and when GM "designs my type out" of the new cars it actually invokes feelings of resentment toward a brand I grew to appreciate my whole life. This I assure you is a real crappy feeling. My other cars have been Corvettes and when I looked at teh 2003-2004 model year GM did the same thing (from an engineering perspective) and made the rear window hinge bigger with a cover that cut out just about 1/2-3/4" out of the head room. Problem was it was just above where my head sits and I could not fit..I was PISSED OFF at that point as well.

Would I change my height to be 5'7" to 5'10" tall like Cadillac is designing to? No Way! Where is Cadillac's ear for those who no longer fit well into new models (that are loyal clients)? Small cars (and I mean very small) that handle well can be made with considerably roomy interiors (Kia does this for example). Can GM just simply be making design mistakes when they size down the cars? Is it a process or engineering oversight?

With all that aside I just wish I were one of the more "average sized" people that fit in the "new gen" of Cadillac Sedans...