Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

[majax]

HAHAHA

well those cars all look good and no one played it safe really nor did they go out of this world.

[Slick V]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

4) This next cadillac needs to have a completely new underframe apart from Sigma and have absolutely nothing in common witha CTS, SRX or Deville. The only feature to carry over (which was from Corvette anyway is the magnetic ride control)

GM STOP PLAYING IT SAFE AS YOU DID WITH 2005 STS.

FYI the first vehicle to have magnetic ride control was the 2002 STS, later introduced to the Corvette in 2003. As for you thinking Cadillac being a follower, I think that BMW is following Cadillac in a way. All of Cadillacs new models are dareing and fresh, BMW has kindof followed that route in there new models. There new models like the Z4, 5 series, and 7 series all have the loved it or hate it look, a look Cadillac opened the door for.

[majax]

If you didnt know a lot of BMWs use hydra-matic transmissions which have been used by cadillac for years. GM owns Hydra-Matic

[gothicaleigh]

Can we do something about the frickin' H-scroll on this page?!

Try to keep your pics aligned vertically, as it's very annoying to have to scroll over to read every line...
I have to reduce this page to 50% in Opera to even get it to fit on the screen...
.................................................. ................

On size:
As for the correct comparison, GM itself has purposely set it's cars in between the two 'common' classes. Both the CTS and the STS compete with the 5 series for example... you just get to pick if you want your 'american 5' to be a little larger or smaller. This way they cover a larger demographic with each car. The STS also compares to the 7, and does a fine job in terms of performance and price.

When the DTS comes out, I gaurantee it will be sized a bit larger than the 7, but be in line with the 7's price and performance. At least that is how Cadillac has placed each of it's redesigns thus far.

For example:
CTS -> 325i, 330i, 525i, 530i (and in V form: 545i)
STS -> 530i, 545i, 7 series
DTS -> 7 series and larger

On price:
A fully loaded $50,000 Cadillac is a fantasy. You can not compare the new designs to the old ones, they're competing in a completely different league.
Lincoln is no longer Cadillac's main competitor, BMW is.
You can only expect what you pay for. You're not going to see world class automobiles if you force GM to cut corners by keeping the prices low. If the car is good, people will buy it regardless of the price.

On styling:
Cadillac has set record sales numbers for itself since the Art&Science design was put in place. I think this alone proves that the designs are appealing.
The STS isn't as polarizing as the CTS, and I agree that I would have liked to see the knife-sharp angles continue. But it's still angular and daring enough to stand out in it's class (a place that is over-crowded with 'me too' designs).
The small details will be worked out during mid-year production based on customer opinion and feedback (just like what was done with the CTS). How many other companies can you say that about?

[Caddy Man]

i have a quick questions: WHY IS EVERYONE GETTIN THEIR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER THE PRICE?!?! :rolleyes2 Go the cadillac.com, the 2005 sts starts at 40,995. A 2004 SLS stared at 46,770 for the bottom package. Loaded the SLS came out to about 55,000, and mind you thats SLS; STS was discontinued for 2004, so we are forgettin a few options like the 17 inch wheels and xenon lights that would send that price upwards to around 58,000. A fully loaded DTS with every option goes for 60,000, SO WHAT IF A FULLY LOADED 2005 STS GOES FOR 60,000 ALSO. People complain about the price, yet they bitch at cost cutting when it shows in the car. This is a premium luxury sedan, the price will be around there. The 2005 STS picks up price wise, right where a fully loaded CTS leaves off. People act like cadillac has never done this, well they have been doing it for a few years now on the STS and DTS. For those that feel the price is too high, we have the CTS, so all the bases get covered.

[gothicaleigh]

Exactly.

It's a Cadillac.
Not everyone should be able to afford one.
The price isn't out of line with it's competition.
In fact, it undercuts the price of cars it shares demographics with.

Expect a fully loaded STS to hover around $60k. This is very reasonable.
Other than that: "If you have to worry about the cost, you can't afford it."
Cadillac doesn't (and shouldn't) cater to everyone, especially people wanting new car luxury on a used car budget.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by gothicaleigh

Exactly.

It's a Cadillac.
Not everyone should be able to afford one.
The price isn't out of line with it's competition.
In fact, it undercuts the price of cars it shares demographics with.

Expect a fully loaded STS to hover around $60k. This is very reasonable.
Other than that: "If you have to worry about the cost, you can't afford it."
Cadillac doesn't (and shouldn't) cater to everyone, especially people wanting new car luxury on a used car budget.

Let's all get along here and let's get this straight:

The reason why European cars are more expensive in the US retail market is for several reasons.
1)There are several other import costs and taxes.
2) Overall costs are typically higher to sell in foreign countries(admin expenses, legal etc)
3) General import mark-ups (additional features only sold here that add to the price)
4) Euro Mystique has a certain value in and of itself.

Here is where Cadillac is out of line:
1)OPTION PRICES: Take a CTS for example, it comes with crappy wheels and interior trimmings unless you upgrade for the big bucks packages. What ever happened to a standard car looking great and having wood accents? Doesn't BMW do this?

2) When did a car built here earn a spot to be priced to a point where there is no value in the product? If you are the only one in the state driving a certain type of car that is exclusive this is a whole different story. The STS is a mass production (and CTS parts sharing) car? Why the super price hike? I would spend the $$ on a new car but why do so if you feel "taken for a ride on oprtions?"

3) Would you rather have a 545i? or a STS for the same price? WHich car would have more appeal 3 years later? This is why STS shoud be a car that tops out at $50K

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Caddy Man

i have a quick questions: WHY IS EVERYONE GETTIN THEIR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER THE PRICE?!?! :rolleyes2 Go the cadillac.com, the 2005 sts starts at 40,995. A 2004 SLS stared at 46,770 for the bottom package. Loaded the SLS came out to about 55,000, and mind you thats SLS; STS was discontinued for 2004, so we are forgettin a few options like the 17 inch wheels and xenon lights that would send that price upwards to around 58,000. A fully loaded DTS with every option goes for 60,000, SO WHAT IF A FULLY LOADED 2005 STS GOES FOR 60,000 ALSO. People complain about the price, yet they bitch at cost cutting when it shows in the car. This is a premium luxury sedan, the price will be around there. The 2005 STS picks up price wise, right where a fully loaded CTS leaves off. People act like cadillac has never done this, well they have been doing it for a few years now on the STS and DTS. For those that feel the price is too high, we have the CTS, so all the bases get covered.

CTS
=
SIGMA
=
2005 STS

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Devil_concours

every single thread you made so far has been nothing but whining about cadillac's size when in fact mulitple members over 6' has commented that the cars are big enough for them. What is your real problem with cadillac? If you like the 300c go ahead and get one.

Because I want to stay with a car that is made by American people and is American managed.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Caddy Man

i have a quick questions: WHY IS EVERYONE GETTIN THEIR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER THE PRICE?!?! :rolleyes2 Go the cadillac.com, the 2005 sts starts at 40,995. A 2004 SLS stared at 46,770 for the bottom package. Loaded the SLS came out to about 55,000, and mind you thats SLS; STS was discontinued for 2004, so we are forgettin a few options like the 17 inch wheels and xenon lights that would send that price upwards to around 58,000. A fully loaded DTS with every option goes for 60,000, SO WHAT IF A FULLY LOADED 2005 STS GOES FOR 60,000 ALSO. People complain about the price, yet they bitch at cost cutting when it shows in the car. This is a premium luxury sedan, the price will be around there. The 2005 STS picks up price wise, right where a fully loaded CTS leaves off. People act like cadillac has never done this, well they have been doing it for a few years now on the STS and DTS. For those that feel the price is too high, we have the CTS, so all the bases get covered.

To address your price issue: We all know that GM is insane on every option mark-up. Take a Navigation system on a CTS, isn't it like $3000 extra on the car's price.(the car is a opel cousin for god's sakes). You think this option costs them anywhere near this price (no way). They should consider what Saturn does: Make a product in a segment for a price and you get what you think you will be getting. Don't bait everyone at $29,000 for a CTS or $40,000 for a V6 STS when people really walk into a show room and get a V8 equipped car in 4WD for $50K.

[Slick V]

Your a moron, im done wasteing my time with you.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Slick V

Your a moron, im done wasteing my time with you.

Go Piss 60K away on a k Car and good luck.

[gothicaleigh]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

CTS
=
SIGMA
=
2005 STS

You keep coming back to both of them being Sigma vehicles and I think this is where you are confused. Being of the same architecture does not mean they are the same cars.

They share similar frame construction and suspension. That is about as far as the similarities go. The vehicle dimensions are different and the wheelbase is different.

You could make just about anything on a Sigma platform. It's a very adaptable architecture.

[gothicaleigh]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

Go Piss 60K away on a k Car and good luck.

You're not trying to compare an STS to a K car now, are you?

[gothicaleigh]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

.(the car is a opel cousin for god's sakes).

Opel shares architecture with Holden, the GTO, and the Catera.
The CTS no longer has anything to do with anything that associated the Catera to Opel. The 3.2L is the last remnant of that affiliation and will be dropped in 2005.

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

Don't bait everyone at $29,000 for a CTS or $40,000 for a V6 STS when people really walk into a show room and get a V8 equipped car in 4WD for $50K.

Don't bait everyone at $28,100 for a BMW 325i or $39,800 for a V6 BMW 525i when people really walk into a show room and get a V8 equipped car for $55,000 (545i base MSRP).