Price High Styling Laacking 2005 STS/ E 500

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by megeebee

You did it again, miscreant! That pic is the best profile shot of STS I've seen so far. I wonder how jerseyvette would feel if he/she could see the C, E, and S all lined up in profile? How could one tell them apart?

May I ask, these dimensions you've listed. Is this compared to the E 500?

I think we all agree that the new STS is a styling disappointment from almost every category. Would the car be a real player badged as the "2005 Aurora" or "New Euro-Fighter Buick"? Definately! But as the Caddy that we were expecting to set direction for the company of GM on a world scale (in the presitge segment)??? Sorry but it falls way short of what I was expecting.I was just in Vegas as a club called the Sterling Club where many hitters and wanna-bees were driving up to the valet. The absolute "real hitters" had 4 door Bentley's and cars of that level. As the crowd tapered down more into the middle man/younger exec space you saw MB E Class and BMW 745 level cars (even a few older models pulled in).

What's the point here? The point is that the "club type" of buyer is looking for the same type of style cars that I like. This style is a heavy looking (yet well handling), stodgy (yet aerodynamic) and roomy (yet sleek) style of car. This is why I am so fond of the Chrysler 300C. It has a Chrently (Chrysler/Bentley combined:-) type of styling which I REALLY admire.

I then ask myself "why" is GM taking the approach of the 2005 STS Design? All I can guess is that they(GM Decision Makers) see it as a safe (globally confused IMO) bet that will attract smaller people that may otherwise buy a smaller sized Infinity, Lexus or Jaguar (notice I pointed out the smaller models). What GM fails to understand is that taking a lead role (in marketing they call this the pioneer role) that includes certain risks. Now why could Caddillac not come out with a car (in addition to the existing models) that has the type of appeal that I have been discussing? I'm talking about a car that you would buy for $48K that would have a 385HP V8 and be intended to show up a silver Mercedes S55 when parked next to it at the valet? Why is it that the foreign car buyer (Audi A8, S 500 etc) has to have bigger and more impressive car in 2004 than anything made here in America?

Anyone else agree with my thoughts? I welcome feedback.

Mr. Jersey vette

[Devil_concours]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

I think we all agree that the new STS is a styling disappointment from almost every category. Would the car be a real player badged as the "2005 Aurora" or "New Euro-Fighter Buick"? Definately! But as the Caddy that we were expecting to set direction for the company of GM on a world scale (in the presitge segment)??? Sorry but it falls way short of what I was expecting.I was just in Vegas as a club called the Sterling Club where many hitters and wanna-bees were driving up to the valet. The absolute "real hitters" had 4 door Bentley's and cars of that level. As the crowd tapered down more into the middle man/younger exec space you saw MB E Class and BMW 745 level cars (even a few older models pulled in).

What's the point here? The point is that the "club type" of buyer is looking for the same type of style cars that I like. This style is a heavy looking (yet well handling), stodgy (yet aerodynamic) and roomy (yet sleek) style of car. This is why I am so fond of the Chrysler 300C. It has a Chrently (Chrysler/Bentley combined:-) type of styling which I REALLY admire.

I then ask myself "why" is GM taking the approach of the 2005 STS Design? All I can guess is that they(GM Decision Makers) see it as a safe (globally confused IMO) bet that will attract smaller people that may otherwise buy a smaller sized Infinity, Lexus or Jaguar (notice I pointed out the smaller models). What GM fails to understand is that taking a lead role (in marketing they call this the pioneer role) that includes certain risks. Now why could Caddillac not come out with a car (in addition to the existing models) that has the type of appeal that I have been discussing? I'm talking about a car that you would buy for $48K that would have a 385HP V8 and be intended to show up a silver Mercedes S55 when parked next to it at the valet? Why is it that the foreign car buyer (Audi A8, S 500 etc) has to have bigger and more impressive car in 2004 than anything made here in America?

Anyone else agree with my thoughts? I welcome feedback.

Mr. Jersey vette

because
1. Deville is meant to fight against a8, s etc not STS.
2. STS is adequate enough for most people even few taller people like me (6'2"). I fit in my cts fine.
3. S55 will run you 100k+
4. Not everyone wants a huge car. Times are changing and everyone wants something reasonable.

5. STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE and i think it looks pretty good.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Devil_concours

because
1. Deville is meant to fight against a8, s etc not STS.
2. STS is adequate enough for most people even few taller people like me (6'2"). I fit in my cts fine.
3. S55 will run you 100k+
4. Not everyone wants a huge car. Times are changing and everyone wants something reasonable.

5. STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE and i think it looks pretty good.

I saw the car in person parked last weekend and it is really plain and small (very compact interior). Deville to me is a plainly styled car as well. Where is the Cadillac 16 with a 400HP Z06 motor or a HO Northstar when you need it....

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Devil_concours

because
1. Deville is meant to fight against a8, s etc not STS.
2. STS is adequate enough for most people even few taller people like me (6'2"). I fit in my cts fine.
3. S55 will run you 100k+
4. Not everyone wants a huge car. Times are changing and everyone wants something reasonable.

5. STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE and i think it looks pretty good.

Let's see??? Who would win this contest in prestige, size, features and performance???? Anyone want to volunteer an answer???

[jerseyvette]

Anyone else agree? Fancied up economy sized car:

[CAR Motorsports]

From what I have read, most stories lead me to conclude that the 300C is largely (NOT completely though) an E class mercedes with a hemi and chrysler badging. The 300C has borrowed heavily from the E class. If true, I would find it tough to justify $60K plus for a car when the 300C (or E300 clone if you like) is out there for $35K.

Just my opinions. Now where's my Hemi?

Alan

[CaddyFan2004]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

Anyone else agree? Fancied up economy sized car:

I don't agree.

According to what I've read, the interior styling, the ride and handling, and the engine power and refinement make the STS a great competitor for BMW.

[Devil_concours]

Originally Posted by CAR Motorsports

From what I have read, most stories lead me to conclude that the 300C is largely (NOT completely though) an E class mercedes with a hemi and chrysler badging. The 300C has borrowed heavily from the E class. If true, I would find it tough to justify $60K plus for a car when the 300C (or E300 clone if you like) is out there for $35K.

Just my opinions. Now where's my Hemi?

Alan

fyi, it shares platform with previous gen e class not the new ones.

[Devil_concours]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

Let's see??? Who would win this contest in prestige, size, features and performance???? Anyone want to volunteer an answer???

we will just have to wait and see when cadillac actually comes out with the new deville on a rwd platform.

btw, one of the comparison had a dts above s430. It also runs simlar times with a lot of base v8 sedans(not the top of the line/high performance versions)

[Msilva954]

Actually it replicates the current E Classes suspension and a couple other things....but in all its only like 25-30% mercedes E class.....

I agree though with the STS being way over priced.......the European cars get away with it because they are overhyped......the STS is just plain expensive with the options...I mean how can a $46-$48k car go all the way up $14,000 in options....cmon when we bought are new house it had $20,000 in options and we have $200,000 in equity........the STS options are really overpriced....I cant picture alot of top of the line STS's around.

I like it but I dont love it.....for that money Ill have a BMW 545i in my driveway.

[Caddy Man]

why is everyone complain that the sts is priced to high?? a fully loaded sts or dts has always (at least in the past few years) gone for roughly 58,000 FULLY LOADED. its been like that for a few years now.

[Msilva954]

Maybe $58,000 canadian dollars.....but here Ive never seen one cadillac ever sell for that price.....a neighbor of my grandfather got a brand new DTS when the 03' came out and he ended up paying $45,000 fully loaded with every option.....including the cloth top and vogues..........maybe we just get better deals in Florida but the only cadillac down here that sells for that price is the Escalade.

[Slick V]

Originally Posted by Msilva954

Maybe $58,000 canadian dollars.....but here Ive never seen one cadillac ever sell for that price.....a neighbor of my grandfather got a brand new DTS when the 03' came out and he ended up paying $45,000 fully loaded with every option.....including the cloth top and vogues..........maybe we just get better deals in Florida but the only cadillac down here that sells for that price is the Escalade.

You can go to cadillac.com and build a 2004 DTS, fully loaded it is just about $61,000. The last STS when fully loaded was alittle more then that if I remember correctly. I think that this new STS has alot more to offer then its predicesor(AWD, HUD, etc.), and it still didnt rise in price from the update.

Thinking about 14K in options isnt bad when you look at the MB E-class for instance starts at $48,795 and will run to about $110,000 fully loaded.

[jerseyvette]

Originally Posted by Slick V

You can go to cadillac.com and build a 2004 DTS, fully loaded it is just about $61,000. The last STS when fully loaded was alittle more then that if I remember correctly. I think that this new STS has alot more to offer then its predicesor(AWD, HUD, etc.), and it still didnt rise in price from the update.

Thinking about 14K in options isnt bad when you look at the MB E-class for instance starts at $48,795 and will run to about $110,000 fully loaded.

My version of the facts:
1) The Chrysler seems like a lot tougher of a car (based on pedigree and mechanical components) Than a CTS , I'm sorry that was a Freudian Slip, I meant to say STS (the one letter difference is worth 30K in price yeah right!)
2) The STS is a major disappointment and a safe bet that will all go to hell for GM when people "avoid" the car.
3)We're all pretty pissed that the German-owned and manager Diamler Chrysler is hitting home with car lovers in America more than GM is with the 300C.
4) Deville's UNI-BODY platform is a cousin of a 1985 Cadillac Seville and we are sick of living in the past and getting charged out the butt for it.
5)Cadillac has abandoned people like me who need to fit in cars and want value and exclusivity in a brand.
6) Germans (although stodgy in general style) still have the edge in making cars that "we wish we had".
7) GM's cadillac engineers continue to disappoint on everything but the Escalade in 2004.

Did I say the cars were too small? Oh yes I did..sorry for repeating myself...

Please chime in here where you agree. Every pro-2005 STS poster either works for GM or is a dealer. I want true customers like me who would step upa nd buy a new Cadillac....(nothing against dealers but we all know that your compensation plan dictates your behavior and you will have a bias in your posts).

Mr. Jersey Vette

[strindl]

Originally Posted by jerseyvette

My version of the facts:
Please chime in here where you agree. Every pro-2005 STS poster either works for GM or is a dealer. I want true customers like me who would step upa nd buy a new Cadillac....(nothing against dealers but we all know that your compensation plan dictates your behavior and you will have a bias in your posts).

Mr. Jersey Vette

Hmm..I think I qualify as a real customer...with no connections to cadillac or GM. My 04 CTS is my first Caddy, but I've owned lots of other GM cars before..94 and 99 Corvettes, 2000 and 2003 Silverados, a couple Astro Vans, Grand Am, grand Prix, etc.....

I'm very happy with my CTS but am seriously considering the new STS. I stopped and picked up a brochure at a dealer this afternoon..he said he has two on order right now..a fully loaded AWD model with the V8, and one V6. The AWD, is my main motivation for looking at making a change, but I do like the looks of the STS from the pictures I have seen. I've driven a mercedes E Class and found it to be a very nice car, but if you want to hear some customer horror stories...just check out some of the on line forums for the Mercedes. After reading some of those..I wouldn't touch a Mercedes right now.

I still have to see and drive an STS , but I like what I've seen of it so far. I've also found a very good Cadillac dealer with a great service dept...that makes the decision to stick with caddy easier.