Navigation system malfunction?

[MattO]

Here's a question for those that are interested. I was driving my new '04 SRX (sweet) from Philly to Princeton on I-95. The factory-installed navigation system lost contact with the GPS satellite signal just outside of Philly, and it stayed lost for an hour and a half to Princeton, by which time it had accumulated significant error in my position. My dealership could find nothing wrong. A person at Cadillac tech support said (I'm not making this up) "sometimes the government turns off the GPS system for security purposes." I find this statement non-credible, considering the life-saving uses to which GPS is put by millions of users. So before I start working my way up the complaint ladder at the dealer and at Cadillac, I thought I would ask forum members for their opinions and suggestions. My thanks to anyone who replies.

[Terpnut]

It is always possible that you had extremely bad luck, i.e. satellite went out of service, only two others available, extremely bad weather, etc. simultaneously. For GPS updates, see
http://www.schriever.af.mil/GpsSuppo...advisories.htm. Note one satellite was out yesterday. Usually though, I can pickup at least 7-9 so that should not be a problem since you only need 3-4 minimum. The vast majority of the time, I can access 8 or more. Thus it is VERY unlikely that the availability or access to the GPS satellites is your problem.

I agree that the dealer is full of $h*t. I know that DOD can make the satellites' transponder accuracy better for military versus commercial purposes, but I am not aware of a way to turn it "off". More likely, your external antenna's connection simply came loose or a malfunction with the Nav system itself.

BTW, if you take it into the dealer, could you please inquire as to whether there is a new DVD or system firmware update for this Nav System? Specifically, I have problems with incorrect/bad routing, no GPS screen, no system options (such as undoing the safety override), and other issues. Thank you!

[MattO]

Thanks. I haven't had the problems you have, but if I go back for this, I will ask. My plan right now is to take my Garmin portable unit from another car I have, and test the two systems side by side. We'll see what happens.

[Terpnut]

Unless you have a different Nav system or I have a defective one, I think we all must have the SAME issues that I have. Perhaps you don't care as much, but these issues still exist. Just to be more specific:

1. Bad/Incorrect routing-On several test routes, the Nav system has improperly or inefficiently routed. For example, it has sent me through tunnels when it should not have, directed me in a circuitous route, etc.

2. No GPS screen-Where is the GPS lock type (3-D vs. 2-D), elevation, GPS satellite information, signal strength information, satellite directional map, time, etc.?

3. System Options--How do I turn off the safety "feature"? How do you tell what version of the software/mapping data we are using?

I am already using a Garmin StreetPilot III for side-by-side comparison on display quality, performance, GPS data, autorouting, mapping, features, etc.

[sgilbert]

Anyone know if these are WAAS enabled? (Mine's on order, and I know better than to ask the dealer!)

[Terpnut]

Originally Posted by sgilbert

Anyone know if these are WAAS enabled? (Mine's on order, and I know better than to ask the dealer!)

Beats me. It seems when you buy an OEM Nav unit, you get no system documentation, no technical specifications, and no user-customizable or user-accessible system features/functions! Obviously Cadillac assumes all SRX owners are all basic/beginner users, or are too stupid to want to know this information or use advanced features! This is exactly why I've been complaining so much about the Nav system.

[sgilbert]

I hear ya! As a boater with a chart plotter, it's quite important to know whether I'm within 50 feet or 5 feet!

Are you saying there's NO documentation as to system? UNBELIEVABLE!!

[riff]

There IS documentation, although fairly basic and skimpy on the details as already observed. I've passed some of Terpnuts concerns on to my dealer and hopefully if enough owners raise this issue we'll see them addressed in upcoming firmware updates. It's good to be optimistic, no?

I've been very happy with the NAV but there is certainly room for improvement.

Originally Posted by sgilbert

I hear ya! As a boater with a chart plotter, it's quite important to know whether I'm within 50 feet or 5 feet!

Are you saying there's NO documentation as to system? UNBELIEVABLE!!

[MattO]

I care! I care!

Clearly, GM has assumed we only deserve a dumbed-down unit, with minimal documentation. I can't find any reference to the original manufacturer of the unit. Can we get GM to give us more info? Or, is there a group anywhere that has begun hacking the nav system?

When it comes to the electronics, my dealer knows how to do one thing and one thing only - run a diagnostic. Conversations at that level are very frustrating.

[Terpnut]

Originally Posted by sgilbert

I hear ya! As a boater with a chart plotter, it's quite important to know whether I'm within 50 feet or 5 feet!

Are you saying there's NO documentation as to system? UNBELIEVABLE!!

As riff pointed out, there is the basic user guide documentation for the Nav system. You can download from http://www.mygmlink.com.

What I meant is system documentation with more details including specifications, etc.

[Terpnut]

Originally Posted by MattO

I care! I care!

Clearly, GM has assumed we only deserve a dumbed-down unit, with minimal documentation. I can't find any reference to the original manufacturer of the unit. Can we get GM to give us more info? Or, is there a group anywhere that has begun hacking the nav system?

When it comes to the electronics, my dealer knows how to do one thing and one thing only - run a diagnostic. Conversations at that level are very frustrating.

A GPS/Nav system-nut coworker guessed that Magellan OEM's the Cadillac Nav System. One site says it's a Denso (http://www.autonav2000.com/Compare/Compare2.htm). When I asked my sales rep, he said he did not know. But when I specifically asked whether it was a Magellan OEM unit, he said "Yeah, that's it!". As for tips, hacks and other things, as of right now, I can't find anything.

I have a few things that I am specifically focused on:

1. Determining the OEM and model of the unit (is it Magellan?). Is this specific make and model perhaps being deployed in any other Cadillac vehicles and/or by other manufacturers? If so, which ones?

2. Finding hidden access menus or tricks within the existing OEM unit. For example, I'm guessing there is some sort of press & hold "menu" for 5 seconds, hit "route" and then hold "map" for 2 seconds, and then a system menu pops up. Perhaps a friendly and knowledgable dealership technician could help us with this?

3. Since the system is heavily DVD-dependent, finding and getting the latest DVD updates that address known mapping data errors, auto-routing bugs and interface improvements. Again, I would hope we can get these from the OEM, but worst-case, we will bug the dealer.

4. The SRX is covered under a manufacturer's 4 yr/60,000 mi warranty, but not scheduled maintenance. Thus are the Nav System's DVD updates covered under warranty, or is it considered a separate upgrade/update cost? I consider this a grey area, since bug fixes and interface improvements should be covered, but updates to maps probably are not. For those new to Nav systems/mapping data updates, be forewarned, they are usually not free (my StreetPilot III's Mapsource v5.0 update just cost me $150). Since the dealerships want to make money, I am skeptical we will get them for free. Hence I would like to find third-party sources for fixes/updates to the OEM unit. Of course, then the dealership may void the warranty. :rolleyes2

Sorry for the long post. Please post here if anyone else learns anything interesting.

[riff]

Well here's something that's sure to prove useless. I don't think it's covered in the manual.

Holding down the button right above the power/volume knob, the one with the music note and a oval on it, for about 3 seconds takes you into diagnostics mode. There's a catch... it asks for a PIN # that I have been unable to guess as of right now.

Originally Posted by Terpnut

A GPS/Nav system-nut coworker guessed that Magellan OEM's the Cadillac Nav System. I checked some web sites and they seem to confirm this (http://www.autonav2000.com/Compare/Compare2.htm). Also, when I asked my sales rep, he said he did not know. But when I specifically asked whether it was a Magellan OEM unit, he said "Yeah, that's it!". As for tips, hacks and other things, as of right now, I can't find anything.

I have a few things that I am specifically focused on:

1. Determining the OEM and model of the unit (is it Magellan?). Is this specific make and model perhaps being deployed in any other Cadillac vehicles and/or by other manufacturers? If so, which ones?

2. Finding hidden access menus or tricks within the existing OEM unit. For example, I'm guessing there is some sort of press & hold "menu" for 5 seconds, hit "route" and then hold "map" for 2 seconds, and then a system menu pops up. Perhaps a friendly and knowledgable dealership technician could help us with this?

3. Since the system is heavily DVD-dependent, finding and getting the latest DVD updates that address known mapping data errors, auto-routing bugs and interface improvements. Again, I would hope we can get these from the OEM, but worst-case, we will bug the dealer.

4. The SRX is covered under a manufacturer's 4 yr/60,000 mi warranty, but not scheduled maintenance. Thus are the Nav System's DVD updates covered under warranty, or is it considered a separate upgrade/update cost? I consider this a grey area, since bug fixes and interface improvements should be covered, but updates to maps probably are not. For those new to Nav systems/mapping data updates, be forewarned, they are usually not free (my StreetPilot III's Mapsource v5.0 update just cost me $150). Since the dealerships want to make money, I am skeptical we will get them for free. Hence I would like to find third-party sources for fixes/updates to the OEM unit. Of course, then the dealership may void the warranty. :rolleyes2

Sorry for the long post. Please post here if anyone else learns anything interesting.

[Terpnut]

Hey, now we're making progress.

Now, who can hack the PIN? Or who has a friend at the dealership?

[riff]

With cell phones the PIN #'s were usually all 0's or 1's. In my experience, anyway. It seems that the PIN # for the NAV diagnostic mode can be as low as 3 digits.

I'll fiddle with it a bit today. There HAS to be a universal code that's not too difficult on the memories of those that need access to the diagnostics mode.

[JoeCaddy1]

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