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Dipstick - - V6 vs V8

26K views 62 replies 17 participants last post by  nascarnation 
#1 ·
OK...

My 09' SRX puked oil all over the driveway...

This caused me to check the oil...

Which made me curious on exactly where on the stick the line was supposed to be.. so I opened the book..

Well... According to the book :: I have a V8 Dipstick on my V6.

Here is a photo of my dipstick on my V6:



And here is the page in my book that makes me think I have the wrong dipstick in my car?




I mentioned this to the Service Writer at ELCO, and he stated that sometimes the book is wrong, and acted like it is no big deal.

So I ask :: Does it matter? Are the measure points between the two sticks the same? Or will I get a totally wrong measurement from a V8 Stick on my V6 Engine. Is the book wrong?

(This sounds like a good one for Rippy! :) )
 
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#2 ·
Excellent question!!! I have a 3.6 with the 4.6L -style dipstick as well. Quite frankly, I am not able to determine my oil level from it on most occasions. Whether the engine is warm or cold, I get a thin layer of oil covering the entire hatched area and so I cannot conclude from it how much oil I actually have.
 
#3 ·
Prof Wizard, yes it does make a difference. The oil level shown on the dipstick in your picture - at least in my 2008 3.6 - would be at least 1 quart low. I, too, was surprised when I found I had the incorrect dipstick and am still concerned with how to accurately determine how many quarts are in the crankcase. Do I need to say "especially with this engine's reputation"?

How am I sure that it is a quart low? I drained the crankcase and measured it. When is it 2 quarts low, or more, who knows?

BTW - of all the words written about the timing chain problem and particularly after seeing the pictures of the one to be replaced (stretched) compared to a new one, a friend stated simply, "They put in the wrong chain." Has anyone else mentioned this possibility? The engine assembly plant not receiving the correct parts. Hard to believe, time after time, but possible?
 
#6 ·
If this helps I measured the length of the dipstick on my 07 3.6l. From the base to the tip is approx. 19 3/4". From the base to the full mark ( the top hole shown) is 17 1/4". The distance between the top hole (full) and bottom hole (1 qt low) is 3/4".

The base I used is where the dipstick bottoms out when inserted in the tube.

I've got a similar dipstick on my Envoy to the V8 and it's difficult to read.
 
#7 ·
n7don_srx: That is certainly helpful information, which allows us to compare dipstick measurements. Is there any evidence to suggest that Cadillac changed the dipstick style in 2007? Can any Cadillac Customer Support Reps shed any light on this?
 
#11 · (Edited)
I looked in one source and it shows p/n 12595327 with no indication of a difference for 07 MY 3.6l engine. Maybe Chris (Rippy) could confirm. That same source shows a p/n of 12611594 starting in MY 08 so it appears there was a change starting in 08. What those with the "V8 style" dipstick should do is compare it's dimensions with the regular style dipstick. GM may have changed vendors but kept the dimensions uniform.
 
#9 ·
I noticed the same issue with my '08 V6 soon after my purchase. I went to a local Cadillac dealer and consulted a technician about it. We checked two other SRX V6's and found that they too had what the book describes as a V8 dip stick. I guess this is one more indication of how things are done when you have a company run by a bunch of old foggies.
My solution was (and is) to check the level after the engine cools down after being driven after the oil and filter is changed and use that as a measure of "full"
 
#10 ·
Thanks Phoenix,

That shows me that the wire style dipstick is about 4" longer than the rigid one. Therefore, the rigid one would probably be way too short to measure any oil. However, it still doesn't explain that some V6's have one style, but some of the wire type which according to the manual is supposed to be for the V8.
 
#12 ·
Hi everyone! Professor Wizard, I double checked my resources and verified that the page you screenshot from your manual (page 5-17) should indeed be the recommended dipsticks for the V6 (top) and V8 (bottom pic). I sadly cannot provide a concrete diagnosis without seeing it in person, but from the photo you provided it certainly seems like you were given the V8 engine dipstick with the rounded end! I would be happy to research this in more depth for you and ask our Technical Assistance Center for details, so please feel free to send me a quick PM with your full name and VIN anytime.

I really appreciate that you all have brought this to my attention and given such great, specific feedback on the measurements! I've documented this thread and welcome any PMs from you all if you'd like me to investigate further or need additional assistance.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service
 
#13 ·
Thanks for replying. I would love to see this question resolved, as it is important in relation to oil consumption issues as well as the ability to read oil level properly. The answer may be as simple as the oil dipstick tube was replaced at some point with a longer one, but it would interesting to find out when and why.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the offer Katie... PM has been sent.

It would be nice to know if GM decided to put cable V8 Style sticks in ALL V6 SRX's.. without updating the manual, or telling anyone.

There seem to be too many in here with V8 Style cable sticks, for it to be a simple mistake in the dealers shop!

This could potentially be a problem. For example: If they are indeed the same stick as the V8, then we probably have an issue of not enough oil, as they would read full sooner (being longer). So when the stick reads FULL, you are actually a quart and a half low.

If GM manufactured cable sticks to replace the flat wire sticks, specifically for the V6, then they should have sticker-ed the manual. or labeled the stick itself to avoid confusion.

Hopefully, between what Katie finds out.. and if Rippy jumps in - - we can find out the truth.

Also: I should get my SRX back from the shop tonight... I'll pull the stick and see what the part number is.
 
#15 ·
As far as I can tell 2004-2007 SRX V6 models take the same dipstick (there were two previous part numbers so one or both of those might be like the style shown in the manual)

what would be best is for us to find a 2004 SRX owner (like nascarnation) who can let us know how long their original style is and then you can compare that to the style you guys with 2007s seem to have

i would guess that the actual V8 dipstick is quite different in length

i would think that when you do an oil change and check the oil level with the dipstick right after if it is showing on the cross-hatched area then it's the right length
 
#17 ·
"i would think that when you do an oil change and check the oil level with the dipstick right after if it is showing on the cross-hatched area then it's the right length"

If it were that simple it would be great - but right after I change the oil I know it has the right amount (because I just put six quarts in).

I would like to know the accuracy of readings when it is 1, 2 or 3 quarts low - and that is the problem I have now with the V8 dipstick in my 3.6

Bill
 
#20 ·
A GM tech told me that any oil level in the cross hatch area is considered full. Below that is 1 qt. low. So, if you were 2 qt. low, no oil would show on dipstick (V-8 style) but would on the longer 6 style. :hmm:
 
#21 ·
Hi Rippy,

I think I can explain, because I have the same problem with mine. When checking oil (warm or cold), it is almost impossible to get an accurate reading. I usually see the entire cross-hatched area covered in a light coating of oil after wiping the dipstick and reseating it. Quite frankly, I don't believe that is indicative of the level it actually has, because I can check it a few hours later and get a more defined level of oil. In essence, for me to get at least some idea how much oil is in the vehicle I have to make about three readings on different occasions (e.g. cold, after driving and after driving and letting it resettle). My vehicle is a V6 and does not have any oil loss issues, though when readings are this difficult to get - who knows?
 
#24 ·
I have the cable V8 version in my V8, my 04 V8 also had the same cable style.

Maybe I am just really awesome but I never have issue checking it, mind you it gets checked in the garage cold.

I will try checking it hot after a trip on the weekend, I need to change it as well so lots of checking for me.


But my point was a crappy dipstick and an incorrect dipstick are not the same.
 
#27 ·
As far as I'm aware, there isn't any issues with the timing chain on the Northstar engine nor do most
consume excessive oil when driven above 3000 rpm's.
This 3.6 V6 is the first GM engine I have ever owned where heavy oil consumption and stretched timing chain or chains
is considered not to be a problem by the manufacturer.
My regret is that I was only forty miles away from a '08 SRX AWD V8 for sale with similar mileage and only a few thousand dollars more than I paid for my present vehicle.
Had I been aware of the issues with this "award winning" engine which replaced the venerable 3.8liter V6, I would have driven the forty miles.
 
#25 ·
I have the V8 style in my V6
The difficulty in reading could be my fault. Below is an excerpt from the manual on how to do it properly: not cold, not hot, but warm and wait for oil to settle several minutes.

Checking Engine Oil
It is a good idea to check the engine oil every time you
get fuel. In order to get an accurate reading, the oil
must be warm and the vehicle must be on level ground.
The engine oil dipstick handle is a yellow loop. See
Engine Compartment Overview on page 5-12 for
the location of the engine oil dipstick.
1. Turn off the engine and give the oil several minutes
to drain back into the oil pan. If you do not do this,
the oil dipstick might not show the actual level.
2. Pull out the dipstick and clean it with a paper towel
or cloth, then push it back in all the way. Remove it
again, keeping the tip down, and check the level.

So back to the dipstick issue...
 
#28 ·
Well...

I got my SRX back from the shop last night - - and the first thing I did was check the dipstick for any part number stampings... There were NONE... NADA... NOTHING anywhere on the stick.

I too find it a bit difficult to read this type of stick - - it picks up oil off of the side of the tube.

Katie is researching for us.

And Rippy found 2 different part numbers - so they did change something sometime.

The part number I found was 12611594

The description indicates this part number is used for 2008 to Current SRX's.

So - did they change the part in 2008, but never updated the book?

===========================================

I kept digging... and found another part number: 12595327

Description states it is for 2004 - 2007...


So - - perhaps THAT is the flat stick - - - and the other part number is the cable stick.

It would have been nice if GM has simply put a sticker on the page.
 
#29 ·
there is definitely a change of part numbers (and apparently styles) between 2007 and 2008

the 2004-2007 stick did go through two part number changes so possibly one of those part number changes was also a style change

i would almost bet money on the owner's manual not getting updated correctly as the root cause of this confusion

...

it's kind of like one of those things that is so simple and basic that it was either overlooked or it was decided that it wasn't really worth making the change
 
#30 ·
Rippy said
"i don't quite get what you're saying here
if it's reading right/correct when full after you just poured 6quarts of oil in then why would it not read right/correct when you are low by 1, 2, or 3 quarts?"
conedoctor said
"I never have trouble reading my dipstick, I think 2 issues are getting pushed together. If the dipstick is wrong then ok fine that is an issue but if the dipstick is hard to read that is a different issue."
glake89 said
"A GM tech told me that any oil level in the cross hatch area is considered full. Below that is 1 qt. low. So, if you were 2 qt. low, no oil would show on dipstick (V-8 style) but would on the longer 6 style."
stillrolling said
"This 3.6 V6 is the first GM engine I have ever owned where heavy oil consumption and stretched timing chain or chains
is considered not to be a problem by the manufacturer."

What I do know is, is that when I have drained the oil (for an oil change) and it was some halfway down the crosshatch area I was not able to measure 6 quarts (or even close) that were drained, it was less than 5 quarts.
Whether it is easy (or not) to view the oil on the stick (and it is higher on one side than the other) - I have never before had a car I've had to worry about using oil, and now I do and there isn't an accurate way to measure it. How about them apples?

Bill
 
#31 ·
My 07 V8 dipstick is as described in the 07 manual for the V8. It also is the same as what PROF showed with his 09 manual and dipstick. And when I have my oil changed, the crankcase takes exactly the amount of oil as required for a change (with a filter change) to show "full" on the dipstick.

BUT TIME OUT!!!!!!!! What does this all mean? Nothing.

We can't all assume that the V6 and V8 dipsticks are interchangeable. N7 and Phoenix are correct about measuring the length of the two dipsticks from the cross-hatched point to the base of the dipsticks.

Consider this, however. Regardless of measuring the two tipsticks from base to the cross-hatch to determine if the dipsticks are interchangeable, how do we know that either one or both dipsticks are the proper length in the first place in the correct vehicles for a true full reading? For all we know, we have been running low, right on the money, or overfilled, even with the correct dipstick in either vehicle, assuming the lengths and the markings were correct in the first place.

I can imagine more than a few GM service techs and engineers are rolling their eyes at this thread and our challenging these things. But I'll bet they are all making the same assumption we have all been making........that the dipsticks are functionally correct in length and markings and correctly measure a true, full oil level.

Timing chains failures in the V6? I have been thinking inadequate lubrication for some time, but I was mentally attributing the failures to a lubrication design flaw in the engine block, or a slight chain/pulley misalignment on some of the vehicles when even the newer redesigned chains weren't working out for some folks.

Someone at GM assigned way back when to investigate the GenI V6 timing chain failures must have some insight into whether there was/is a problem with the dipstick length and/or markings (and hence oil level) and not with the block, the chains, or the chain alignment.

No? This is one thread I am going to be following very closely.

PJ
 
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