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Cadillac SRX First Generation Forum - 2004 - 2009 Discussion, Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide... in Cadillac SRX Forums; Ohhhhh My!... Cadillac did not fare very well at all, in the 2012 Buying guide. Cadillac did NOT make the ...
  1. #1
    Professor Wizard's Avatar
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    Post Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Ohhhhh My!...

    Cadillac did not fare very well at all, in the 2012 Buying guide.

    Cadillac did NOT make the Best List in any price range anywhere for any year.

    Cadillac DID make the WORST list several times

    The Caddies that made the general worst list by year are:

    CTS (V6) 08-09
    CTS (V6 RWD) 03
    DeVille 01-04
    DTS 06, 09
    Escalade 07-08
    Seville 01
    SRX (V6) 05-07
    SRX (V6 AWD) 04-08
    STS (V6) 07-08
    STS 05-06

    Consumer Reports had a separate "Best of the Best, and Worst of the Worst" list.

    The American Cars that made the Best of the Best list were the Ford Fusion, the Ford Mustang, the Lincoln MKZ, Zephyr, the Mercury Milan, and the Pontiac Vibe. (Look - One GM product made it on the list - too bad Pontiac doesn't exist anymore!) The Best list was comprised of 75 cars.

    A Cadillac made the Worst of the Worst list... It was the SRX. (We really needed that!)

    The Worst of the Worst list was comprised of 30 cars.... GM products were 17 of the list, just over 1/2 of the worst of the worst cars were made by GM. That should make them proud.

    That might explain why Cadillac Customer Service doesn't seem to want to help us "bad-Cadillac" owners... there are too many of us!

    Anyway - - I though you guys might find that interesting.

    If you want to see for yourself:
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...-used-cars.htm

    I am thinking GM has a LONG LONG way to go, if they are going to overcome this reputation.

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    Bobanna is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Prof:
    Thanks for your interesting post, though it made my heart sink. Ordinarily, I would point-out that I believe CR frequently displays a bias against American manufacturers, but the adulation for Ford products would defeat this opinion. Taken as a group, I think the SRX' in question tend to get favorable reviews in consumer surveys and used-vehicle reports. What stands out is the woefully inadequate support of product by Cadillac. People buying vehicles in this price range are quite capable of having their stories heard by many. This bad blood leads to poor referrals, Caddy tightens-up some more, the horror continues, etc., etc. A near-classic death spiral (maintained by improper (control) management until impact). Seems to me that dealerships and corporate need to do a better job addressing the ongoing integrity of this luxury brand so that consumers can confidently purchase and use.

  4. #3
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Consumer Reports should be ashamed of the bias they have, as it misdirects consumers into veering away from what might be good vehicles while promoting others that are not. Even brand new totally unproven Japanese vehicles get a thumbs up, while vehicles from the BIG THREE are always rated below their actual worth. When it comes to reliability, Consumer Reports are completely unreliable and should not be used to compare vehicle quality.

    On the flip side, two GM brands that have consistently been in the top 5 best brands are Buick and Cadillac. If you want to take a look at real consumer reports (not CR), have a look at carcomplaints and you will see that complaints about Ford Explorer, Honda Accord and Honda Civic are absolutely rampant.

    My take is that quality does not vary a great deal for most manufacturers (there are exceptions), but almost always takes a nose-dive when they cannot keep up with the demand.

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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Have a look at http://www.carcomplaints.com and you will get a very different perspective! Almost no Cadillac issues...

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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    I completely DISAGREE with CR's rationalization of what throws their reports on vehicles. Consumer Reports is very heavily biased toward mostly Japanese brands and I suspect this has something to do with financial benefits. There is simply no other way to explain it.

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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    i'm not sure what you're saying there... did you read any of the link i posted?
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    i'm not sure what you're saying there... did you read any of the link i posted?
    Yes, but the article states a number of reasons why CR's statistical methods are flawed. I believe it is much worse than that and that CR threw any research and statistics (if they had any) right out the window. Skewed and erroneous surveys cannot account for what we're seeing in CR reports.

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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    i think it does

    ...

    first, their surveys are self-selecting ... people choose to respond

    that's the biggest issue right there

    and it just continues ...

    here's a few quotes that come to mind

    "...misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent." ~Goethe
    Heinlein's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."
    don't forget Occam's Razor either
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Keep it calm guys! (or girls).

    I meant only to start a conversation :: not a skimish.

    My thing with CR is...

    1) it says what it says... and inciates what it indicates. Irrgardless of how or why that information is there, it is still there, and people are now reading it!

    2) Like it or not: Many - and I repeat :: Many, people use CR as a strong guide for advice when they start a search for anything - especially large ticket items, such as cars. And that fact will NOT help GM to get out of their slump, as long as entities as influincial as CR continute to reccoment you NOT buy a GM product by reporting GM products as the majority of the Worst of the Worst.


    At least GM will be happy to know, that there are also quite a few (like myself) that don't always go with the reviews. I like what I like, and I will buy what I buy despite what the critics think. However, now and then (as with my own personal SRX) I learn the hard way that sometimes the critics are correct. Thank god most of the time they are wrong!


    Rippy;
    That was interesting.. thanks for shareing.


    08SRX... believe me - - there are more then plenty of bad reviews for the SRX - - I found them when I started looking to see if I were the only one with "too many" problems with my SRX. But realisticly - I suppose if one sought them out, one could find multiple bad reviews on most any car.

    CR would indicate my personaly SRX is the norm.. but 08SRX's link would indicate my SRX is an anomoly. All I know is GM gives no idication at all that they actually care either way.

  12. #11
    PJ1520 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    I give up. This thread is like one of those "Yes, but......" back and forths with folks here taking pot shots at information no matter who provides it, when they provide it, how it is gathered, who are the respondents, what the possible biases are, or the methodology used to perform the survey in the first place.

    NO ONE has come up with any better alternatives.

    In business, I peel the skin off employees who have nothing but negatives to offer, spewing opinion with little or no basis in fact, filled with supposition and assumption..........and yet these employees offer zero as a solution, or a better path, one over the other, when a decision has to be made and substantive action taken.

    PJ

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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    JD Power has some good alternatives ...

    I tend to think that that CSI ratings are a much better grasp of the industry than CR

    while their CSI rating doesn't get down to the model, it does evaluate the brand/nameplate

    Customer Service Index (CSI) Study—CSI measures the satisfaction of vehicle owners who visited the dealer service department for maintenance or repair work during the first three years of vehicle ownership. The study, now in its 25th year, provides an overall customer satisfaction index score based on six measures: service initiation, service advisor, in-dealership experience, service delivery, service quality, and user-friendly service. CSI is a nameplate study, which means that performance is reported at the nameplate level (i.e., Ford, Mitsubishi, etc.), rather than at the model level (i.e., Mustang, Eclipse, etc.).
    here's what they have to say about how they're different from CR
    Consumer Reports is published by a non-profit organization that focuses on testing and reviewing products in various categories. The company has a testing facility in New York and employs experts who review numerous consumer products on a regular basis. By contrast, JDPower.com provides ratings based on “voice of the customer” information, which is derived from independent and unbiased consumer feedback—opinions, perceptions, and expectations of consumers who actually own the products and services being rated
    JD Power does not use self selecting surveys and that's a big difference IMHO
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  14. #13
    warreneaux is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Wizard View Post
    Ohhhhh My!...

    Cadillac did not fare very well at all, in the 2012 Buying guide.

    Cadillac did NOT make the Best List in any price range anywhere for any year.

    Cadillac DID make the WORST list several times

    The Caddies that made the general worst list by year are:

    CTS (V6) 08-09
    CTS (V6 RWD) 03
    DeVille 01-04
    DTS 06, 09
    Escalade 07-08
    Seville 01
    SRX (V6) 05-07
    SRX (V6 AWD) 04-08
    STS (V6) 07-08
    STS 05-06

    Consumer Reports had a separate "Best of the Best, and Worst of the Worst" list.

    The American Cars that made the Best of the Best list were the Ford Fusion, the Ford Mustang, the Lincoln MKZ, Zephyr, the Mercury Milan, and the Pontiac Vibe. (Look - One GM product made it on the list - too bad Pontiac doesn't exist anymore!) The Best list was comprised of 75 cars.

    A Cadillac made the Worst of the Worst list... It was the SRX. (We really needed that!)

    The Worst of the Worst list was comprised of 30 cars.... GM products were 17 of the list, just over 1/2 of the worst of the worst cars were made by GM. That should make them proud.

    That might explain why Cadillac Customer Service doesn't seem to want to help us "bad-Cadillac" owners... there are too many of us!

    Anyway - - I though you guys might find that interesting.

    If you want to see for yourself:
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...-used-cars.htm

    I am thinking GM has a LONG LONG way to go, if they are going to overcome this reputation.
    I do not depend upon CR to convince me of the reliability of a product.
    I've seen them miss too many time.
    If I had the time and money I would find a product that they determined "not good", locate 1,000 consumers and get their data on it.
    Just my idea of CR.
    Much prefer the owners reports here on this forum.
    Earl

  15. #14
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    Does CR even know what an SRX looks like?


  16. #15
    PJ1520 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac and Consumer Reports 2012 Buying Guide...

    No one should depend on any one single source to determine product reliability. We should use as many as we can get our hands on.

    One cannot do any reasonably credible, hands-on research on their own. That leaves the car magazines, the consumer reporting agencies, and forums. The experience of a few is the most tainted and suspect. The experience of many is more reliable.

    One person driving as many dealer demonstrators and lot cars can only drive so many and so far......but these have probably been "prepped" to some extent, and the numbers are totally irrelevant versus the total number of vehicles manufactured. One person can get word of mouth from acquaintances, but the amount of that information is minute and NOT relevant, miniscule. Even combined, these two sources are TOTALLY meaningless when it comes to vehicle reliability.

    The value of the use of automotive forums such as this one has been discussed here at length. Automotive forums tend to attract those with problems and issues, not the mainstream consumers that have no issues. The satisfied consumers are likely to remain silent on forums if they look at them at all.

    Car magazines? Their experience is limited to the one single sample of one single vehicle make/model they have tested, short term and long term. I refuse to make my decision on a single vehicle test. One out of 60,000 is irrelevant drivel. And the vehicle is new, hand-picked by the dealer, and probably super-prepped in advance of the magazine's pickup. Bias city, and their sample is no sample when it comes to reliability. I see the least amount of negativity towards test vehicles with car magazines, foreign or domestic.

    I was fortunate enough to know a Cadillac dealership employee and got some good information from him. He at least had the inside track on both the new car deliveries he saw (and the required prep misssed before the car left the factory), the customers' new car bring-backs (initial quality), all of the warranty work performed at various mileages (short-term reliability), as well as the pre-owned vehicles' they took in and moved back out. Their off-warranty work is still confined to a miniscule cross section of the buying public. Still, that sampling is miniscule and irrelevant.

    Before purchasing I checked with my private mechanic of a decade and a half. He had repaired and maintained only a small handful of SRXs that were off warranty. And his network of other private mechanics (yes, they consult with one another) were similarly not familiar enough with the SRX quantity-wise to make their 2 cents worthwhile and meaningful.

    It has been noted here that there is a Japanese bias within the consumer reporting agencies. Why do some assume there is a bias in favor of that country's automotive products? Year after year, decade after decade, their vehicles are dominant at or near the top of the stack of vehicle reliability, no matter which consumer reporting entity you want to use. That is either no accident or a is well-hidden bias amongst the cabal of consumer reporting organizations.

    Public sentiment? I will give you this......we may be seeing a long-standing dissatisfaction amongst the American buying public whose perception was and is their reality with regard to their own brand or country of origin loyalty: "The initial build quality and long term reliabilty of American iron still does not yet stack up to the foreign competition, though the gap has been closed." Perception is reality in the automotive market. A black eye is quick to tarnish a reputation and perception and is a long time in healing.

    What about vehicle depreciation values? The vehicles at the top of the reliability stack retain their value far better than those in the lower half. Automotive insurance companies believe in the reliability impact and resale values, adjust their premiums accordingly, and they make a lot of money using this information as well as repair (collision) data. I got my 3 year old CPO SRX for 45% off the initial sticker with 26K miles on the odometer. Why? The reliability rankings as pointed out by PROF. The buying public felt and feels there is more bang for the buck paying more for a vehicle whose reliability appears higher. Spend it now, make it back later off warranty or at the time of a trade/private sale.

    So IMHO we are still left to chasing and interpreting for ourselves the most expansive source of information: the consumer reporting organizations.

    Pick one, any one of the consumer reporting entities, and we will be better off than taking a shot-in-the-dark choice, based on our own irrelevant miniscule experience, those with whom we immediately have our hands on, and the information we were able to secure anecdotally.

    "My own research" is nonsense and irrelevant. MY SAMPLE SIZE WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE .0000000000%.

    PJ

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