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Cadillac SRX First Generation Forum - 2004 - 2009 Discussion, Drivetrain drone and GM service in Cadillac SRX Forums; Originally Posted by Wagoneer Yes, the noise is only apparent when cruising under light throttle. It disappears as soon as ...
  1. #16
    Terpnut is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagoneer
    Yes, the noise is only apparent when cruising under light throttle. It disappears as soon as I let up on the gas, and fades out if I start accelerating. Based on what I've read, it seems likely to be the same differential problem that some CTS owners have.
    Is this "drone" the same thing as the "pitch point whine" that has been discussed in another thread? I experience a noise under the exact same scenario, but it is much more a "whine" than a "drone".

  2. #17
    miscreant's Avatar
    miscreant is offline GM Connection
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by sgilbert
    miscreant (Ron Sonedecker),

    I quote page 5-109 in the owners manual:

    Engine Oil with Filter

    3.6 HFV6: 5.6 quarts (OK, I was wrong here!)

    4.6 V8: 7.5 quarts AWD; 8 quarts RWD

    We both stand corrected.
    And I was quoting the GM Service Manual.
    2004 Cadillac CTS (**SOLD** ): http://www.ctsowners.com
    2004 Pontiac GTO: http://www.myyellowgto.com

  3. #18
    Wagoneer is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpnut
    Is this "drone" the same thing as the "pitch point whine" that has been discussed in another thread? I experience a noise under the exact same scenario, but it is much more a "whine" than a "drone".
    I'm not certain. Apparently, neither is the dealer. The car has now been driven by three different techs and has been turned over to the shop foreman. So far, they all claim they can hear the noise and that it's abnormal, but they can't decide what is causing it. The service manager told me the next step is to start taking measurements of everything in the likely trouble areas. I have the feeling my car could be in the shop for a good long time.

  4. #19
    Terpnut is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    I just dropped off my SRX again to fix/replace my cruise control. This is my THIRD visit to this dealership in less than a week. If it takes three separate visits and several test drives to figure out how to fix a cruise control problem, how long do you think it might take them to fix a drivetrain-related problem?

  5. #20
    CaddyFan2004 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Wagoneer,

    You have rear differential whine. Your symptoms are typical of this issue.

  6. #21
    b4z
    b4z is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Wagoneer,

    Tell them you want a new gearset installed.
    Provided of course they know how to do it, and can set the lash properly.
    If that doesn't work, then they should install a complete new rearend.

    Find the point where it starts to do it and where it stops and concentrate on that. Like I said befroe, mine starts at 29 mph and stops at 70 mph.
    Betweeen 30 and 35 it is loudest.
    Almost a howling noise. Clearly apparent to anybody in the car.
    They really need to fix this for you and stop wasting your time.

    Call GM customer assistance and they will call your Service Manager while you wait on the phone.

    Also want to clarify my comment about going a year on a oil change.
    I was just repeating a paragraph in the manual that in certain conditions the interval may be up to a year.

    As long as a synthetic meets GM standards it can be used. It doesn't have to be Mobil 1

    3.6L in Lacrosse has a lower redline and 15 less hp and does not require synthetic. So a VVT engine does not necessarily have to use synthetic.

  7. #22
    BeelzeBob's Avatar
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by b4z

    As long as a synthetic meets GM standards it can be used. It doesn't have to be synthetic.

    3.6L in Lacrosse has a lower redline and 15 less hp and does not require synthetic. So a VVT engine does not necessarily have to use synthetic.

    HUH..????.....to both of these comments.....LOL


    Did you mean that as long as a synthetic oil meets GM standards it doesn't have to be Mobil1...????

    If that is what you meant then you must not have read the part about where I said the Mobil1 is the ONLY sythetic motor oil that meets GM specs for synthetic motor oil....

    So why does a VVT engine NOT need synthetic, again..??? Actually, it does need synthetic, as specified, to work correctly, as explained. You may not like it and may disagree with having to use synthetic oil in the RWD Northstar but it is necessary for the correct operation of the VVT system that is in the Northstar. The 3.6 engine uses a different type of cam phaser anyway so it is not a good comparison. Stick to what the OEM recommendations are and stop trying to second guess the engineers that designed the system.

  8. #23
    Terpnut is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Whenever you mention that synthetic oil is required, you specifically reference the Northstar, but what about the V-6? Is it required for it too?

  9. #24
    b4z
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    bbob,

    I really need to read my posts before I "submit reply".

    What you said.
    It doesn't have to be Mobil 1 is what I meant.
    In my manual it says it has to meet a certain standard.
    if Mobil 1 is the only one that meets the standard then
    I guess then we should only use Mobil 1, but GM doesn't say to only use Mobil 1. At least in my 3.6L.
    Anyway my first oil change was with Mobil 1 and all my oil changes will be with Mobil 1.
    Don't think I am second guessing the engineers.
    My posts were in response to several here who said synthetics were unecessary.

    Terpnut,

    V6 requires synthetic also.

  10. #25
    Wagoneer is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Hey, stop trying to hijack my perfectly good whining and complaining thread with this talk of engine oil!

    The service advisor called and left a message that the shop foreman wants to "realign and relubricate areas of the drivetrain." *shrug* I'll let them try it. I know the lemon laws, and if they want to use one of their attempts to fix the issue by tinkering with the existing parts then that's their call.

    Regarding the oil---I can't resist---while I am not an automotive engineer, I work in research and development. I've witnessed plenty of times where engineers, under time pressure, have determined that something works and therefore made it a requirement to be safe. They didn't have the time or inclination to verify that nothing else would work ... so while GM may require Mobil1, I would be skeptical that they have much proof that nothing else can get the job done. Obviously I'm just speculating ...

  11. #26
    67Yv8t is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagoneer
    They didn't have the time or inclination to verify that nothing else would work ... so while GM may require Mobil1, I would be skeptical that they have much proof that nothing else can get the job done. Obviously I'm just speculating ...
    You are right, that reminds me of the instructions for installing a replacement CPU in a computer: It talked about aligning the dot on the chip, with the dot on the socket. . . it finalized the instructions with the statement "there is only one correct way to install the processor, we leave it to you to figure out the wrong ways."

    I will whole heartedly agree that engineering specs far exceed what is minimally needed to operate, but, the cost of finding the lower limit of "acceptable oil" far exceeds the cost of a few quarts of Synthetic oil.

    Certainly, you could run some other brand of synth in the engine and it would run, it might even run just fine. But as you move farther from the approved oil, you run a higher risk of failure. So what is the cost savings of. . .i.e. Castrol Synth, over Mobile1 for the life of the car? A dollar a quart? . . . for 150 qts (20 oil changes). And what is the cost to replace the VVT actuators if the oil fouls it, or any other part for that matter.

    I'll be the first to use rebuilt toner cartridges, or refill them myself, but I also realize that if it breaks, it will only cost $200 to replace the printer. I can show a break even point including the hardware replacement cost.

    I don't see that at $1 a quart for 8 quarts every 6 months, vs. $8000 replacement engine installed.

  12. #27
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagoneer
    Hey, stop trying to hijack my perfectly good whining and complaining thread with this talk of engine oil!

    The service advisor called and left a message that the shop foreman wants to "realign and relubricate areas of the drivetrain." *shrug* I'll let them try it. I know the lemon laws, and if they want to use one of their attempts to fix the issue by tinkering with the existing parts then that's their call.

    Regarding the oil---I can't resist---while I am not an automotive engineer, I work in research and development. I've witnessed plenty of times where engineers, under time pressure, have determined that something works and therefore made it a requirement to be safe. They didn't have the time or inclination to verify that nothing else would work ... so while GM may require Mobil1, I would be skeptical that they have much proof that nothing else can get the job done. Obviously I'm just speculating ...
    I like 67Yv8t's answer.....LOL

    Yes, there is always some "cushion" in the recommendations or requiements for the oil. The requirements for the oil take into account the absolute worst case situations including cold starting at -40 in Kapuskasing, Ontario, to pulling a trailer thru Death Valley in 120 ambient temps, to running at the Nurburgring racetrack in Germany for suspension and chassis developement.... Under everyday "normal" driving you could probably get away with less...but...you are the one running the tests on your nickel. It is virtually impossible for an autocompany to provide specs for different lubricants for different locations geographically and for different use schedules....so....the absolute worst case situations are tested and provided for. The lesser duty cycles enjoy some "cushion" therefore. Not a deliberate attempt to over-engineer or over-spec the situation or to just "spec for the moon" to cover all basis. The reasons for specing the Mobil1 synthetic were explained earlier and the requirements under those conditions were tested in the extreme situations.....

    As an example, the CTS-V is also spec'd for Mobil1 synthetic specifically for the oil temps seen under track usage. Under heavy duty track work the oil can approach 150 C....hot enough to require synthetic oil. Look at the CTS-V forum to see how many people take their cars to the track...lots of them. The Mobil1 is spec'd for a very good reason.


    Even under normal driving the response time and response vs. temperature is very noticable with the Mobil1 compared to conventional oil. As I said, this is because the VVT system is operating as a hydraulic system...not a lube system...so it is a bit different in terms of requirements for the oil in the system. In this case there is really no "cushion" or engineering leeway with the Mobil1 vs. conventional oil. The gain rates and response times of the VVT system are set up assuming Mobil1 will be used as specified. If not, the VVT will not operate according to the factory specs. The engine will still run....just not as good.


    I'll have to look at one but I could have sworn that the oil filler cap said Mobil1 on it.....since that is the only oil that meets GM's performance spec for synthetic oil.

  13. #28
    strindl is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    I

    I'll have to look at one but I could have sworn that the oil filler cap said Mobil1 on it.....since that is the only oil that meets GM's performance spec for synthetic oil.
    The oil must meet GM spec GM4718M, and while Mobil One is the factory fill and a great, and safe choice, there are other oil companies that make fully synthetic oils that also meet this GM spec. I know Valvoline for one does, there are a couple others. The container should state "meets GM4718M" on it somewhere..if it does..it's the right kind of oil.

  14. #29
    vfour is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Angry Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    Back to gear whine. I have the whine from about 60mph on up. It is loud enough to be heard above the radio. First stop at the dealer and they said they could not hear anything (yeah, right). Second time I took the tech for a ride. He heard it but claimed it was normal (again..yeah, right). Then I call the service manager and take her and her assistant service manager for a ride. They agree the noise is there but have no solution. I ask them to replace the center section. Dealer says they have no authority to do that so they contact the zone manager to get permission. Zone manager says replacing center section will not cure the problem????? Comes back with the offer to extend the center section warranty to 6 years. Well, that doesn't address the problem. Next visit is Tuesday. The zone manager prescribed an additive to the gear oil which they will change out. We will see.

  15. #30
    Wagoneer is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Drivetrain drone and GM service

    What are the lemon laws in your state? I'd suggest taking it to the dealer repeatedly asking them to fix the problem. Don't insist that they make any specific correction; just let them try to deal with the problem however they see fit. If, after some number of visits, they cannot or will not fix the problem and it still continues to bother you, then use the lemon laws to get rid of the car.

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