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Cadillac SRX First Generation Forum - 2004 - 2009 Discussion, Oil Consumption in Cadillac SRX Forums; Originally Posted by rlh6805 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break-i...anical_run-in) http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_should...#39;_a_new_car did you read those pages? Consequences The following are consequences of a bad engine ...
  1. #106
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    did you read those pages?

    Consequences

    The following are consequences of a bad engine break-in:[1]
    1. Oil will be allowed to gather in the cylinder wall, and a vehicle will use much more of it than necessary.
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    rlh6805, you are not alone buddy. We can start throwing excuses and theories everywhere but at the end of the day, these LY7 engines do burn oil. My 06 was a one owner, clean carfax with 72k miles loaded with every single option for the V6 (NAV, RES, pano, MRC, third row, awd, 18" wheels, xenon etc.) purchased last June. The car was actually owned and driven by the dealership owner's wife and it was well maintained. Besides having a PS pump and Cat converter replaced under warranty since i've owned it, the car has been problem free. Still, I found myself topping up approx. half a qt every 2500 or so miles. At first, it bothered me quite a bit since i've owned plenty of vehicles in the past and have never found myself burning this much oil. I've driven (all purchased pre owned) within the last 12 years: a 98 civic ex, 97 honda prelude, 98 honda prelude, 92 honda civic hatch, 2005 civic hybrid, 2004 acura tsx, 94 lexus sc300, 95 lexus sc300, 97 lexus es300, 2001 bmw 330i, 2000 audi s4 Most with higher mileage except for a few and none came even close to burning oil like the SRX. The only car that even came remotely close to burning at this rate was my 97 honda prelude but that was probably due to beating the crap out of that one. I drove most of my cars besides the SRX hard. The most impressed was my 330i at 155k till i sold it. Not a drop of oil between changes. The s4 boosted up to 17psi maybe burned a trivial amount but also never needed a top up between changes and were talking about a dyno'd 390ft lbs torque awd with 80kish miles.

    The SRX is my first GM or domestic ownership as a matter of fact, and will probably be my last. The loaners I've been given (2013 malibu eco (nav) and 2012 malibu (4cyl) has tempted me although. Very nice rides! I am in no way bashing GM at all because I love this car to death. The bigger pet peeves for me has to do with design more than anything. After replacing some light bulbs on this car, it has to be the biggest joke I've ever seen.

  3. #108
    rlh6805 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by azblksrx View Post
    rlh6805, you are not alone buddy. We can start throwing excuses and theories everywhere but at the end of the day, these LY7 engines do burn oil. My 06 was a one owner, clean carfax with 72k miles loaded with every single option for the V6 (NAV, RES, pano, MRC, third row, awd, 18" wheels, xenon etc.) purchased last June. The car was actually owned and driven by the dealership owner's wife and it was well maintained. Besides having a PS pump and Cat converter replaced under warranty since i've owned it, the car has been problem free. Still, I found myself topping up approx. half a qt every 2500 or so miles. At first, it bothered me quite a bit since i've owned plenty of vehicles in the past and have never found myself burning this much oil. I've driven (all purchased pre owned) within the last 12 years: a 98 civic ex, 97 honda prelude, 98 honda prelude, 92 honda civic hatch, 2005 civic hybrid, 2004 acura tsx, 94 lexus sc300, 95 lexus sc300, 97 lexus es300, 2001 bmw 330i, 2000 audi s4 Most with higher mileage except for a few and none came even close to burning oil like the SRX. The only car that even came remotely close to burning at this rate was my 97 honda prelude but that was probably due to beating the crap out of that one. I drove most of my cars besides the SRX hard. The most impressed was my 330i at 155k till i sold it. Not a drop of oil between changes. The s4 boosted up to 17psi maybe burned a trivial amount but also never needed a top up between changes and were talking about a dyno'd 390ft lbs torque awd with 80kish miles.

    The SRX is my first GM or domestic ownership as a matter of fact, and will probably be my last. The loaners I've been given (2013 malibu eco (nav) and 2012 malibu (4cyl) has tempted me although. Very nice rides! I am in no way bashing GM at all because I love this car to death. The bigger pet peeves for me has to do with design more than anything. After replacing some light bulbs on this car, it has to be the biggest joke I've ever seen.
    Thanks for that. I am truly discussed with myself for not doing my homework on this problem vehicle. My goal is to get GM to repair the engine so it does not burn oil (like it should be). If I can get this done, I may keep it for awhile. In general I like the car, but the oil usage really puts a damper on the whole experience for me.

  4. #109
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by azblksrx View Post
    Still, I found myself topping up approx. half a qt every 2500 or so miles.
    consumption this small could go unnoticed by almost anyone
    but in no way is it excessive ... your oil life monitor would read 0% before any other signs of low oil level became evident (timing chain chatter, VVT noise, etc)

    Also, just because someone associated with a dealership owned a car doesn't mean it was well maintained ... you would be surprised at how many people associated with dealerships don't maintain their vehicles properly
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    This issue is with nearly all domestic and imports....and the causes and solutions are all detailed in several threads, but I agree with Chris. That low of consumption is minor to so many. This is in the LY7, LLT, LFX, LS based, Fords, Chryslers, etc.

    It is also one of the most common reasons for a visit to the dealer service center for warranty work so it is not uncommon....just overlooked by so many owners. Chris is also dead on on how a car is maintained.....but this is not a matter of neglect, it is the break in process (most drive to easy so the rings never seat properly in the first 500 miles. After that the cylinders form a hard glaze and that short window has passed. Car MOST be driven mildly aggressively during the first 500 miles.....owners manual should be ignored on this aspect). Then the consumption through the intake charge gums up the rings with deposits so they cannot move freely and seal properly compounding the issue.
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    i often wonder why the engine building facility doesn't break in the rings themselves ... is it because 500 miles of engine use would take too long for them to run all the engines that they make?
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Cost. All they would have to do would be to spin the assembled engine with break-in oil for a set amount of time w/out spark plugs installed varying the loads and RPM's and they would be seated properly in 99% plus of the time.....been talked about for years, but always shot down by budget. In the 60's and 70's, cars came with break-in oil from the factory and it was drained and changed at 500-1000 miles (break in oil was a thiner blend that allowed the rings to wear in quickly while still offering enough short term protection for the bearings.....problems we saw back then was the occasional buyer would NOT bring it back in for that critical first change and then have bearings out after a few thousand miles....or smoking/oil consumption. We only warrantied for 6-12,000 miles then though. Now, the factory fill is either a good syn blend or full syn so it is so superior in its protective abilities that if babied to much you may or may not get the reings seated properly in that crucial short window.

    Just like in 74 when unlead fuel was madated (cat's weren't until 75) and we saw the early engines burning valves right and left as they had no hardened valve seats. Lots of unexpected consequenses when changes are made that dont show up unitil far into production.
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    Cool. Good info
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  9. #114
    PJ1520 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Sorry for my absence since last week on this discussion. Life intervened.

    After many Cadillac Forums threads on this topic and a zillion posts over the past nine years, I think we are finally getting somewhere with an understanding of what happens, when, and why, based on expert opinion and practical observation. Glake......that is why I have spent time on this. We need to arrive at some conclusions and actionable measures for folks in this situation moving forward. Complaining, even when warranted, doesn't get it done.

    I also disagree strongly with you, RLH, when you say you didn't do your homework pre-purchase. Short of tearing down the engine before you bought......which of course none of us do. A motor oil consumption test documented on the prior dealership service records of the previous owner would be the only telltale way you could have known something was amiss, short of one's private mechanic picking up on something subtle pre-purchase. So you are a victim of (prior) circumstance over which you had no control.

    You are rightfully concerned moving forward. Is this oil consumtion test going to meet the oil consumption threshhold and merit GM intervention ON YOUR BEHALF? If not, is there any practical cause for concern should you intend to drive the SRX well beyond the century mileage mark?

    Does the oil consumption in these situations remain relatively static (unchanged or slow progression arithmetically) throughout the balance of the engine's useful life? Or does the consumption increase disproportionately (geometrically faster) as the miles climb? In other words, does RLH and others have a serious long-term practical concern if he is left to his own devices?

    As I (over) stated in an earlier post, the additional motor oil usage is of little consequence and inconvenience if the consumption and engine performance does not radically change from hereon in.

    Are there any steps that can be taken moving forward to give an owner the best shot that his engine will reach a high mileage useful life, what he expected on the front end when he bought his Cadillac?

    I am a financial consultant by trade, not an automotive expert. My job is to find solutions and strategies when a client may THINK none are available or practical. So bear with me.

    Let's not quit on this one until the sponge has been wrung out. RLH and the rest with this motor oil consumption issue deserve nothing less. If this were my SRX and I were in his position, with tens of thousands already invested (mostly a sunk cost), I certainly would want to know my exposures (if any), downsides, and practical options going forward, even if that included going to the mat with the OEM. To the OEM this is stictly business. When it comes to my wallet, it is very personal.

    PJ

    PS: Re break-in of race car engines.....

    http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...n/viewall.html

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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Very well said PJ

    maybe SC will have some more to say regarding these points
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Hi PJ,

    Good link.

    I still hold a series 24 from old days of being a principal....small world!


    As for the break in proceedure, yes, some engine builders have gotten to confidant on how quickly rings can seat....but most, and us included, use this process for breakin....and we win or loose our Championsips by thousandths of a second far to often, so if we are not building our motors and breaking them in for the best possible results, we fall behind and loose our edge.

    Our standard motor running 100% Methanol:

    After final assy we fill with a good convetional oil with Zinc P addditive will add a small amount of 2 stroke oil (burns very clean) into each cylinder and turn over while doing intial valve lash. This allows intial lubrication but leaves no deposits to interfere with ring movement. Then we fire initially (we use all roller valve train so no need to go imediately to 2500-3000 rpm like with a flat tappet cam) and just a idle of around 1200 as it warms to heat cycle the first time. Of course listening for any noise that should not be there, a few minor RPM changes, then after it reaches operating temp we shut down and check valvelash. Usually some minor adjustment is needed, done at temp. Then cool down, check for leaks, loose bolts, etc. and restart and bring to temp again and vary RPM's all w/out moving the dragster/car. Then check valve lash while still warm and all should not have moved...if we do see adjustment needed we look to see what the issue is, if all is well it is out to the track. First run fter proper warm up is a 1/3 track run with a soft launch. Back to the pits and we check valve lash again (if a single rocker needs adjustment again then we know something is "going away" and tear down to chase it, if all is well we check for leaks and fluid levels again as well as a retorque of the head studs. Then back to the starting line for a hard launch 1/2 track run....repeat all above, then a full track run. Drain oil and fill w/Valvoline full syn racing oil or similar and the engine is broke in and ready for a season of abuse. At 1/2 season we replace lifters and springs (triple springs and mid-high .800 lift) to avoid failures and these go hundreds of runs a season.

    Now, to go on to how this relates to oil consumption on today street engines. Aside from the break-in not allowing the rings to seat, the oil ingestion into the intake air charge causes deposits to form in the ringlands and on the ring top & bottom. This eventually hampers the rings ability to move freely and seal properly allowing even more oil ingestion but from the crankcase being pulled past the rings (the PCV dirty side oil ingestion is what can take a motor that had a decent ring seat and gum up the ringlands and start consuming more than it may of intially). So it is caused byt several things, and if not addressed to prevent the ingestion to begin with it compounds.

    Stopping the oil ingestion into the intake aircharge is the first step, and this is done with a properly functioning catchcan. Problem is with all the rush to market due to the demand the past few years only a few are actually going to stop this as most, even the biggest names, allows nearly as much oil to pass through as they catch.....so the buyer has good intentions, reads the market hype, and assumes they are purchasing one that catches all or nearly all the oil. If you get one that does stop all the noticable oil ingestion the rings may free back up and self clean to an extent so they seal better and the consumption goes down to a managable amount (a qt every 1000 miles is NOT normal OR acceptable no matter what the dealer may claim as policy).

    So, ask more detailed questions and I'll answer the best I can, but the manufacturer will never allow the engineers free rein to implement the best solutions or designs, or these cars would cost us $250k each. There is a balance they acheive for each specific model and version of that model to fit into the competively priced target demographic slot combined with a buyer that has been conditioned to buy the car and put gas in and drive until a prompt tells them it needs service. Gone are the days (except the few that populate sites like this and are not the flock of sheep that cant think for themselves) of even opening the hood to check fluid levels or tire pressure, etc.

    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

  12. #117
    rlh6805 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ1520 View Post
    Sorry for my absence since last week on this discussion. Life intervened.

    After many Cadillac Forums threads on this topic and a zillion posts over the past nine years, I think we are finally getting somewhere with an understanding of what happens, when, and why, based on expert opinion and practical observation. Glake......that is why I have spent time on this. We need to arrive at some conclusions and actionable measures for folks in this situation moving forward. Complaining, even when warranted, doesn't get it done.

    I also disagree strongly with you, RLH, when you say you didn't do your homework pre-purchase. Short of tearing down the engine before you bought......which of course none of us do. A motor oil consumption test documented on the prior dealership service records of the previous owner would be the only telltale way you could have known something was amiss, short of one's private mechanic picking up on something subtle pre-purchase. So you are a victim of (prior) circumstance over which you had no control.

    You are rightfully concerned moving forward. Is this oil consumtion test going to meet the oil consumption threshhold and merit GM intervention ON YOUR BEHALF? If not, is there any practical cause for concern should you intend to drive the SRX well beyond the century mileage mark?

    Does the oil consumption in these situations remain relatively static (unchanged or slow progression arithmetically) throughout the balance of the engine's useful life? Or does the consumption increase disproportionately (geometrically faster) as the miles climb? In other words, does RLH and others have a serious long-term practical concern if he is left to his own devices?

    As I (over) stated in an earlier post, the additional motor oil usage is of little consequence and inconvenience if the consumption and engine performance does not radically change from hereon in.

    Are there any steps that can be taken moving forward to give an owner the best shot that his engine will reach a high mileage useful life, what he expected on the front end when he bought his Cadillac?

    I am a financial consultant by trade, not an automotive expert. My job is to find solutions and strategies when a client may THINK none are available or practical. So bear with me.

    Let's not quit on this one until the sponge has been wrung out. RLH and the rest with this motor oil consumption issue deserve nothing less. If this were my SRX and I were in his position, with tens of thousands already invested (mostly a sunk cost), I certainly would want to know my exposures (if any), downsides, and practical options going forward, even if that included going to the mat with the OEM. To the OEM this is stictly business. When it comes to my wallet, it is very personal.

    PJ

    PS: Re break-in of race car engines.....

    http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...n/viewall.html
    When I say that I am mad at myself for not doing my homework I meant that if I even knew that there was a potential issue with oil usage with these vehicles I would have passed. I have a 2010 F150 with MORE miles than the SRX and it DOES NOT burn any oil between the 5k mile changes. If you go to the F150 forums there is no mention of oil consumption being an issue (because there isn't one). I would highly recommend anyone who is thinking about a vehicle with this LY7 motor to look elsewhere.

  13. #118
    repnatl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    I've had several ppl with the cts asking how I liked it and complemented on how nice it looked and asked me if i would recommend the said NO. They complained of the oil consumption and timing chain issues with their ly7 and told them the srx isn't any better. Told them to get the northstar engine and avoid the panoramic sunroof and check for the lake Cadillac if they do buy. Point blank I will not recommend these trucks to anybody. Yes they look nice and ride smooth but those are my only positives about them.

  14. #119
    rlh6805 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by repnatl View Post
    I've had several ppl with the cts asking how I liked it and complemented on how nice it looked and asked me if i would recommend the said NO. They complained of the oil consumption and timing chain issues with their ly7 and told them the srx isn't any better. Told them to get the northstar engine and avoid the panoramic sunroof and check for the lake Cadillac if they do buy. Point blank I will not recommend these trucks to anybody. Yes they look nice and ride smooth but those are my only positives about them.
    That's about where I'm at too. I can't wait to get rid of it. That being said I do believe that GM does have their act together now. The loaner I have right now is a 2013 SRX that is loaded (it even has the CUE system). Overall quality seems high (up to Ford standards now). I am waiting on Cadillac to come out with a GMC Arcadia size SUV. I've heard 2015.

  15. #120
    PJ1520 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    RLH.........how far along are you with the oil consumption test with the dealer? If you need help getting the mileage requirement to the finish line, just loan me your SRX and I will have it taken care of pronto.

    PJ

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