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Cadillac SRX First Generation Forum - 2004 - 2009 Discussion, Oil Consumption in Cadillac SRX Forums; Trust me they won't remove the post or fix the problem too small of a percentage for them to worry/care. ...
  1. #76
    repnatl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Trust me they won't remove the post or fix the problem too small of a percentage for them to worry/care. Im working on alot of these engines and so far all of them have oil consumption issues. At $8 a qt at auto stores (fyi $6.80 at walmart for Mobil one) imagine what that adds up to over the life or lack thereof the 3.6 engine? Most ppl don't think of it like that. But it all adds up in the end.

  2. #77
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    I would second what C66 Racing wrote. There is no design problem with the 3.6L V6, but there are other factors which will cause engine issues:
    1- proper maintenance by current owner
    2- proper maintenance by previous owner(s) which is often unknown to us
    3- use of proper grade, type and quality oil

    In addition, many people do not understand that this was designed as a high performance engine, which is looser than most. This means it will allow more oil loss to allow high performance.

  3. #78
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by 08SRX View Post
    I would second what C66 Racing wrote. There is no design problem with the 3.6L V6, but there are other factors which will cause engine issues:
    1- proper maintenance by current owner
    2- proper maintenance by previous owner(s) which is often unknown to us
    3- use of proper grade, type and quality oil

    In addition, many people do not understand that this was designed as a high performance engine, which is looser than most. This means it will allow more oil loss to allow high performance.
    The motor is not built with looser tolerances, in fact vey exact tight tolerances thus the 0-20w oil. The oil consumption is due to sevral things (I build these motors constantly and see every issue).

    #1 is most drive the car in the first 500 miles as instructed in the owners manual and the rings only have that small window to seat properly. Engines of old came prefilled with a breakin oil that aided the seating process, not they come with premium oil fill and the first 100 miles 80-90% of the ring seating window has passed. By 500 miles the hard glaze has formed on the cylinderwalls so odds are of not seated properly by then they wont ever.

    Then you have the design of the PCV systems that allow excess oil vapor ingestion into the intake air charge. A properly functioning catchcan is the only solution for that, and most dont work worth a dang letting as much or more through than they catch.

    This oil ingestion does several things, all of them negative. First, any oil in the fuel/air mixture contaminates it so it cant burn clean so less energy is produced per explosive event (try and light a table spoon of oil on fire...it wont burn unless very hot and under pressure, and then very incomplete). This causes poor power & fuel economy from the burn and the detonation that the ECU/PCM detects so it pulls timing thus not allowing the engine to run as efficiently as designed.

    Then, since these are direct injection, no fuel travels past the intake valves so the coke up or become fouled with deposits further degrading the volumetric efficiency of the port, valve, and combustion chamber/piston design.

    Below is the intake port and intake valves of a port fuel injection LY7 3.6L and you can see how running top tier fuel with additives kept the valves very clean (over 100k miles on this example).



    Now here is the LLT 3.6 direct injection engines intake port and intake valves with only 8k miles on:


    This is from the GM service bulliten on the issue:



    Below is a typical piston with the oil/gunk residue on the rinlands preventing them from moving freely and thus allowing more oil ingestion. Also note the vertical scouring on the skirts....the carbon deposits are very hard and abrasive and when they break loose and are forced between the piston and cylinder wall damage occurs:



    So, you have consumption from several sources and reasons....and unless you the owner (and it is not just GM, but all modern cars and light truck engines today) take steps to prevent this or correct the issues...GM is not going to and this is rampant.

    Ask more questions and I will answer them.
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  4. #79
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    SC, aren't you confusing the later V-6, a DI engine, with the original SRX V-6 which is port injected? What year did they change over, '09, '10?
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  5. #80
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    0W20 oil??
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  6. #81
    rlh6805 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by glake89 View Post
    SC, aren't you confusing the later V-6, a DI engine, with the original SRX V-6 which is port injected? What year did they change over, '09, '10?
    Yes, he must be. ALL 04-09 old style SRX's have the non-direct injected 3.6L.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 08SRX View Post
    I would second what C66 Racing wrote. There is no design problem with the 3.6L V6, but there are other factors which will cause engine issues:
    1- proper maintenance by current owner
    2- proper maintenance by previous owner(s) which is often unknown to us
    3- use of proper grade, type and quality oil

    In addition, many people do not understand that this was designed as a high performance engine, which is looser than most. This means it will allow more oil loss to allow high performance.
    LOL!!!
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  7. #82
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Yes your correct as far as the intake valve gunking, but all else still applies to all of these LY7 and up to the current LFX.

    The disscussion is the oil consumption and the causes. That all applies.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    0W20 oil??
    0w20, 5w20, 5w30 depending on the climate.

    Canada/Alaska 0w20 M1 is common in the winter months, I would not run heavier than 10w30 in these even our heavily modded. It gives protection and no excess windage/shear from being to thick.
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  8. #83
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
    The motor is not built with looser tolerances, in fact vey exact tight tolerances thus the 0-20w oil.
    "thus the 0-20w oil" - you're saying it like 0w20 is the factory recommended oil ...

    i understand that colder climates will want an oil that flows at low temps but i still don't get why you brought it up and where the 'thus the...' comes from

    are you referencing a previous discussion or something?
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  9. #84
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    The post where it was stated "these motors are built loose as high performance engines".

    They are not built loose but to very exacting tight tolerances......if they were a heavier weight oil would be needed. In race motors we go 1/2 thou looser with the mains & rods as they are pushing over 1000 hp and are built to last 1 season before we freshen them. This allows them to be run at 7-8k rpm (its that or idle) as there is no cruising on the dragstrip. This also requires we run a bit heavier oil for the "cushion".

    Hope that clear it up. Not sure what page that was on in this thread, but a poster said that was why the 3.6 used excess oil.
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  10. #85
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    There is no design flaw in the LY7. If broken in properly, and serviced properly, it will last hundreds of thousands of miles without major issues and no abnormal oil consumption.

    However, customer satisfaction issues have arisen because owners and dealers think they can substitute their own judgement for the factory's.

    First, if you don't follow the manufacturer's recommendation to vary speeds as the engine is broken in, you will have oil consumption.

    Second, if you don't properly service the air filter, it will allow dirt into the engine and prematurely wear the oil control rings.

    Third, if you don't service your engine with the right kind of oil, you will sludge your engine and have oil consumption problems due to oil ring control and PCV issues.

    Fourth, if you use WOT often (which is fun to do on these engines), the crankshaft reluctor wheel will throw your crappy oil up into the intake manifold.

    If you have purchased one of these vehicles used, you have little right to complain without disassembling your engine and ensuring that the engine was properly serviced. I remember a day when those who had problems with used cars took responsibility for gambling on the previous service history.

    In March of this year GM issued a service bulletin that addresses all of these issues. If followed, it will restore your LY7 to its as-designed performance before careless prior owners, ham handed grease monkeys, and greedy snake oil salesmen got a hold of it.

  11. #86
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by cfishkin View Post
    I'd like the moderator to please remove this post. There is a serious problem with the 3.6 engine in the SRX. Everyone knows it. Many owners, me included, are putting in a quart every 1,000 to 1,500 miles. What is unclear to everyone on this forum is that no one actually knows the percentage of cars with the problem. It's a mystery and we will not know the actual facts. Its very difficult to continue to bring the car back to the dealer for the usage test unless you're retired. On the positive side, I don't know if the excessive usage is causing any additional problems, i.e. catalytic converter, etc. I have 125K miles on my car, still getting 22 mpg highway and the only negative is another $8 worth of Mobil 1 every 3 fill-ups.
    Remove the Post? Shoot the messanger much?
    Oil consumption problems are usually based on perception.
    "A luxury/High performance/high cost engine should be perfect in every way!" or "I really dont want to get my hands dirty between oil changes."

    It would be different if it was leaking from a seal or gasket. Obviously that should be replaced immediately or it will only get worse.
    Consumption is inherently different. It goes to the core of the engine.

    GM and all of the other manufacturers are not going to replace an engine that burns less than a quart/litre in any figure above 1000 miles.
    Theyll expect you to be checking the oil, or having someone do it every gasoline fill.
    You might skip one or two, so there is some leeway built into their criteria.
    350 miles per tank x 3 fills = you might have to put in a quart to top it off.
    An extra $60 per year for the average driver using average oil.
    Your $8 premium oil/1000 miles vs their $4500 crate engine plus installation.
    Would you make that business decision in favor of your customer?
    I would not be able to stay in business at that rate without heavy government subsidy. (oh thats right )

    As long as these complaints stay on bulletin boards, GM will not act.
    Their appropriate action not to replace your otherwise perfectly operational engine, it is to engineer better engines.
    If youve got 125K miles they shouldnt be obligated to do anything.

  12. #87
    cfishkin is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Yes, remove the post and shoot the messenger. Seriously, nowhere in my post did I ask GM to replace my engine. But there is obvious a problem based on the number of posters here, that you don't see on other forums. At 127K now, SRX doesn't owe me thing, and it still looks brand new, inside and out, even after 7 years of hockey bags, baseball bags and beach bags.

  13. #88
    PJ1520 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    CFISHKIN and ALL......a problem? Yes. But how big of a problem? How big is big? 1%, 5%, or 10% of production?

    The scope of the V6s oil consumption and/or timing chains will never be answered/revealed by the folks who track statistics in the ivory towers of General Motors.

    Did you ever get to wondering why GM continued LY7 production for nine (9) production years if the motor was THAT problematic out of the box (2004) and continuing, if the warranty repair $ that staggering, if the extended warranty $ that staggering, or if the negative publicity that damaging? Surely GM had another comparable V6 they could have swapped in during the later production years, but they didn't. Why not?

    GM did extend the timing chain warranty on some V6 production and reimbursed others retroactively for those who got their repairs done out of pocket post warranty expiration. GM dealers also conducted oil consumption tests and, if my take from posters on this forum is accurate, GM by and large seems to have repaired those under warranty that flunked around the 1,500-2,000 mile per quart threshhold. SC250 has written extensively how the excessive oil consumption issue begins with inadequate break in, and he provided pictures to show us what was happening in the dark recesses of the (LY7) engine.

    Automotive Forums like this one attract those with problems, far fewer those who don't have the problems, while the vast majority of SRX owners remain silent. I would venture to say the oil consumption problems and the timing chain problems are nowhere nearly as common as what we might be led to believe by the posters here.

    While I am very sensitive to and sympathetic towards the folks here (like yourself) who have these problems, I firmly believe that these folks neither represent the mainstream SRX V6 owners nor voice an accurate assessment of the issues' severity or GM's culpability here..

    When stuff like these issues happens to me, I too take it quite personally. I want relief. I want what I thought I was getting in a Cadillac. I want the manufacturer to stand behind the product in a reasonable and fair manner.

    Should the discussed severe oil consumption and/or timing chain issues (commonly or too frequently, statistically speaking) occur in a luxury vehicle that new cost North of, say, $48,000? And occur under 50,000 miles? Or 100,000 miles? In a word, no, if the car was broken in properly and maintained by the book. But WE DON'T KNOW HOW FREQUENT IS FREQUENT! AND WE WILL NEVER KNOW. On my car, once is enough for me to get cranked up. No one wants to write checks.

    I am a financial consultant by profession and as such i need to see data before I am convinced of the actual gravity or magnitude of an issue. While we don't have access to GM/Cadillac OEM warranty repair statistics, warranty extension repair statistics, off-warranty repair statistics, and customer complaint statistics......we can get a better feel if we do some legwork. We don't have stats from those who had to fix these engines on their own dime/private mechanic either, but they are represented by posters here.

    Read the following link/thread (first page) and do the math (I did) in order to back into the FirstGen SRX numbers for the SRX V6 LY7 production. Thanks to allroadusa for crunching some numbers for the V8Northstar production and total SRX production 2004 through 2009. I used them to back into the LY7 V6 production numbers.

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...arity-key.html

    Of the roughly 125,000 FirstGen SRXs produced from 2004 through the 2009 production years, roughly 78% or 98,000 V6 LY7 SRXs were produced. There are a lot of V6s out there. I just bumped a "How Many Miles On Your SRX" thread that you might find interesting as it pertains to high mileage V6s.

    The V6 production number might not make you feel any better, but it might make you start to think that you were part of an unfortunate, smaller minority than you had originally thought. That by and large the V6 is not the horrendously problem-plagued engine we may think it is.

    After reading this forum before I chose to buy a pre-owned SRX with a Northstar, I still would have bought one with a V6 when I was looking if I could not find what I wanted in options and color with a V8. To start I wanted the horsepower and torque, pure and simple, after driving quite a few V6s. If I totalled mine tomorrow and could not lay my hands on an optioned SRX with a V8, I still would be tempted by a low mileage GenI with the V6......and a warranty extension.

    PJ
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  14. #89
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    thx PJ... i did not have it in me this morning to be as thorough in my response as you just were
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  15. #90
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    Re: Oil Consumption

    Rippy.......waiting now for the incoming missiles. I stand by what I wrote. I'd buy a V6.

    PJ
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