bled brakes... now "Traction Engaged" and Serv. Stability message... hot wheels...

[mtflight]

Ok so I thought I'd baby the car, and bleed the brake lines... purge the old fluid out and put new one in..

I ordered some self-bleeding screws with built-in check valves (they work great to bleed brakes by yourself), replaced them in all 4 corners this weekend. I then bled the brakes and they work better.

There was some dark stuff toward the bottom of the master cylinder.

I think while bleeding them, debris may have gotten caught.... because....

About 3 hrs after this, the "Service Stability System" message came on along with the brake (!) symbol.

I checked the codes and it was TCS C1226 "Right Front Wheel Speed discrepancy" I turned off the car and reset the code.

car was fine after that.

day later, as I'm coming out of a stop, I feel weird action on the accelerator pedal.... like something spinning/bumping... then it's fine.
Day later as the light turned green, I felt and hard pop / click coming off the line and the "Service Stability System" and brake light (!) were on again. I turned the car off and on and it went away. Code C1226 again.

So I took the front wheels off to bleed the brakes some more today after work (get more fluid out and hopefully debris dislodged?) and found the wheels were quite hot. yeah I was using the brakes a little hard hoping the message would pop on again... but I dont' remember my wheels getting so hot.

I then noticed both front wheel pads were stuck to the rotor. Is that normal with the car off? It doesn't feel like the car is braking when I coast. but I bet they "could" be touching lightly. I bet one of them gets stuck, and sets off the traction control message at best, and at worst the "service stability system" because one wheel speed sensor is detecting there is a difference in speed on the right wheel (it thinks there's a fault with the right front speed sensor, but I think it's registering properly.. and one caliper is sticking.. which one though).

so I bled some more fluid out.

I went for a drive and again coming out of a stoplight, I felt the weird vibrations on the accel pedal and looked down expecting to see the "service stability message, etc" and instead found "TRACTION ENGAGED" which I bet was the same message i would've seen two days earlier had I looked down.


So... what do I do?! please help. I have an extended warranty that covers calipers and brake lines... is this the big opportunity to have the brake system replaced????? Or is this a common thing, sticky calipers?

[iametarq]

I've only bed a system once using the speed bleeders that allow for the 1 person bleeding team.

when you were pumping out the old brake fluid did you do one corner at a time? Did you allow the brake fluid to empty out of the reservoir before filling it back up? Hopefully you kept topping it off before it allowed any air into the brake lines.

I'm sure others will have more insight!

[mtflight]

Thank you TarQ. I bled one corner at a time and kept topping it off. I should point out that I don't get the error/warning messages all the time.

I will put the whole car on jackstands, and will bleed one at a time again hopefully tonite, this time until the fluid comes out clear hoping to dislodge anything that may be causing a caliper to stick.

[Ranger]

Check the slide pins. If they are dried out and in need of lube, that may be causing the calipers to stick and not release. Also check the RF wheel speed sensor plug. Possibly the sensor is going bad but the timing is very suspicious.

[mtflight]

I've never done brakes. What kind of grease does that require? Would this be something I find in the Chilton book (I do have that in addition to the FSM)?

I assume this is easy to do.

Regarding the wheel position sensor, it's built in to the hub. It's a magnet that registers every time it goes around so it can't really break per say. The replacement is the whole hub (speed sensors are a warrantied components so I may be able to get new hubs under warranty--I wouldn't mind that :-) ) One deductible.

The error description says it's actually picking up a different speed than the others... so this may be the one sticking, if all the other wheels have speed sensors (rears too). If it's only the front wheels, well then either of the two calipers could be getting stuck.

[Gearheaad43]

You need white litunum Grease for the sliders. The sliders are the screws that hold the calipers on the brackets, or a part of the assembly. You have to take out the sliders and lightly apply a fresh coat of Litunum grease on each one... Would not hurt to look at the brake pads, and you'll notice areas on the pads that "SLIDE" while in the calipers.... Grease those too...

Just BE SURE you have NO air at all in the brake system!!! The rears can take a long time to bleed.

It could be possible that the one-man brake bleeders you are using are not sealing properly, thus causing air to leak back into the system.

[EcSTSatic]

I've done floating caliper sliders before. You need High Temperature grease. White Lithium is not. The parts stores keep small packets of hi-temp brake grease. Tell them you need it for the caliper pins and they should point you to it. If you buy a pin/boot kit the grease comes with it. You won't need one unless yours are rusted.

[Patrick7997]

The grease you need for the sliders is hi temp silicone grease.... not white lithium grease.

NAPA has soemthing called "Syl-Glide"... that's what you want...

Or some other store equivalent....

The wrong stuff will cause a lot of problems, though, so make sure it's right...

[iametarq]

If you buy a pin/boot kit the grease comes with it. You won't need one unless yours are rusted.

Good to know...when I did my rear brakes last fall I noticed that some parts of the pin were a bit rusty but I rubbed it off. I don't have any problems at the moment with the brakes.

[Ranger]

DO NOT use white lithium grease. I think brake grease mentioned above is a high temp silicone grease.

There are sensors on all 4 wheels and they can break. I had that happen on my '92 which lit the ABS light. 6 months later the bearing started to howl. When I replaced the hub & bearing, the ABS light went out.

If the slides are dry, you have to remove the rubber boot. Just pry it out of the groove with a small screwdriver. If the pins are rusted, you'll have to put them on a wire wheel to clean them up or replace them. After you re grease them, be sure to get the rubber boot seated in the groove so it seals out the moisture.

[mtflight]

fellas thank you for the wise words. I'll start doing this when I get off work. Car brakes so much better now so I'm hoping it's as simple as greasing the deal.

I haven't had the traction message since yesterday.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that there's a certain smell that resembles burnt oil, but not quite. Could it be burning brake pads?

[Ranger]

Yeah, could be. This sounding more and more like a caliper hanging up. If so, it will be apparent when and if you see a brake pad worn excessively.

[97STS4ME]

Dont forget that the traction control system uses the brakes to help restore traction. If you have a wheel speed sensor code, the traction control could be applying the brakes in an attempt to slow down that wheel. Check the contacts on the sensor to be sure there is no corrosion. Another possibility would be that you got brake fluid all over the sensor when you bled that caliper. (hopefully you used a hose that lead to an empty bottle or can to catch the fluid rather than just let it dump out straight into a drain pan) Brake fluid can conduct enough electricity to short a sensor, so make sure its clean.

[iametarq]

Well, this spring I will definitely remove the calipers and inspect the pins again.

[mtflight]

Could you take pictures please? I've never done brakes. I'm learning as I go and when I got home it was dark. I purchased the lube and brake cleaner, but after taking the wheels off I decided I had too little visibility.

I drove around and "bedded" the brakes by driving 30 MPH and stopping repeatedly. Hopefully the sliders adjusted the pads. I didn't have the problem yesterday or today so far. Hopefully that helped. If I get another "Service stability System" it's going to the shop and they're replacing the wheel speed sensor/hub under warranty.

Hopefully in removing it, they'll somewhat service/lube the caliper and take care of that issue too.