94 STS Head gasket repair

[King3244]

Okay ring me up for the head gasket repair.

I am going to do the job myself and was looking in the FSM and it says to take the engine out from the top. When I did a search for head gasket repair on the forum everyone seems to be talking about taking it out the bottom.

I checked that option out as well.........BUT........it seems to me that I will have the extra expense of having to recharge the A/C on top of the head gasket parts.

What I would like an answer for is this..........Has anyone had an engine out from the top? It seems to me to be pretty staight forward and less hassle than coming out the bottom.

Also regarding the timecerts or helicoils.........the FSM shows doing the drill out and tapping of head bolts by hand without the aid of a guide.........Any thoughts on that?

The dealer wants $4200.00 for this repair and it is in the flat rate book at 15.5 hours. Now I imagine the parts retail are probably in the $1200 dollar range so that leaves him 3000 bucks for labor...........shop rates are pretty much a 100 an hour.........so how does he come up with 30 hours labor??........Pure greed or am I missing something here?

Thanks for any help, King

[Ranger]

A few people have removed it from the top, but most say bottom is easier and most have said they would not go through the top again or recommend it. I have seen pics of the A/C compressor dismounted and resting on the frame without discharging it.

Helicoils
Timsert kit comes with a drill guide.

I'll leave rates and labor to someone with more knowledge on the subject.

[King3244]

Ranger.........why the wagging finger on helicoils?

King

[dp102288]

^^ Helicoils aren't designed to work well with the Northstar from my readings. They used to work with the 4.9L engines I think. Timeserts are supposed to be recommended for usage in the Northstar.

A search will yeild more (and better) info on timeserts.

[Ranger]

We where advised by our former Guru that Helicoils will likely fail. Timesert is the factory authorized method. A look at a Helicoil and a Timesert http://www.timesert.com will tell the tale.

[King3244]

Ranger thanks for the info!

[zonie77]

I don't know what FSM you have but mine says the engine comes out the bottom!

People who have pulled them out the top reported that it was much harder than expected because some of the bolts are very hard to access. People who dropped the cradle reported it was easier than expected because that's the way it was designed.

If you drop the cradle you don't have to seperate the engine/trans so that saves a lot of work. The cradle acts as an engine stand.

Look at these links and check the timesert link off it. Helicoils have not worked well in the N* and are not recommended. Timeserts are the only Caddy approved repair. There are tons of posts about all this so I won't rehash it.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...+gasket+repair (N* Head Gasket repair part I/ Remove engine)

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...highlight=5052 (N* Head Gasket repair)

They have some different info.

[zonie77]

Originally Posted by King3244

The dealer wants $4200.00 for this repair and it is in the flat rate book at 15.5 hours. Now I imagine the parts retail are probably in the $1200 dollar range so that leaves him 3000 bucks for labor...........shop rates are pretty much a 100 an hour.........so how does he come up with 30 hours labor??........Pure greed or am I missing something here?

Thanks for any help, King

Hey, the dealers gotta make a living...just happens to be a real nice living!

[zonie77]

Regarding the AC... I do my own AC so it wasn't an issue. You could consider getting an AC pump and gauges and resell them when done. I saw a light duty electric set on ebay for about $130. Is that R134 or R12?

Where are you located?

[King3244]

Zonie,

I have a 94 FSM and it has both ways in it to get the engine out. On a head gasket repair it uses the engine out the top.It just seems to me that dropping that cradle is a lot of work.

I guess part of the problem is that I am a grey hair (well bald actually) and I am more familiar with stuff coming out the top. I have yanked lots of engines from the top and none from the bottom..........so I guess it is a familiarity thing.

I am in Western Canada btw.

As to your comments about the dealership making money ..........I guess you are right on that. I don't mind paying people what they are worth I just hate being gouged!

King

[zonie77]

Originally Posted by King3244

Zonie,

I have a 94 FSM and it has both ways in it to get the engine out. On a head gasket repair it uses the engine out the top.It just seems to me that dropping that cradle is a lot of work.

Either way is a lot of work. Out the bottom seems easier after doing it and hearing the stories of guys pulling them out the top. It took awhile for me to decide to drop it. My brother's was the first cradle I dropped. I had always avoided it before.

I guess part of the problem is that I am a grey hair (well bald actually) and I am more familiar with stuff coming out the top. I have yanked lots of engines from the top and none from the bottom..........so I guess it is a familiarity thing.

Well I'm not gonna get in any kind of contest but I'm retired almost 4 years now. I won't make any bets on who has less hair either. Maybe it's time to drop one out the bottom for a change.

I am in Western Canada btw.

As to your comments about the dealership making money ..........I guess you are right on that. I don't mind paying people what they are worth I just hate being gouged!

King

Canada! What do you need AC for?

If you ask the dealer he will tell you he is losing money every day!

[King3244]

LOL!..........good to see that there are some old gear heads out there.

yeah your right maybe as Shrek would say......"change is good Donkey!"

I will go over the manual step by step and then make a decision I guess. I will go over your step by step as well and maybe fire some more questions at you. Hey if I can get you a cheap air fare maybe you would come up and give me a hand.........we could drink beer (or rum) smoke cigars (or not) and chase young girls in our spare time.....LOL!

No rush now anyway........we are heading for Arizona in a week for 2 months and nothing is going to happen until after we get back...........thats what we need the AC for.

Merry Christmas everyone..........King

[zonie77]

Where are you staying in AZ?

[Ranger]

Rum, cigars & girls? Save me a spot Zonie.

[zonie77]

Plenty of room!