300 HP is not what it used to be.

[STS 310]

Originally Posted by Katshot

Redline shifting is more to get you into the meat of the next gear than anything since you've easily gone well past the engine's peak power point.

True.

[Ed_Hunt]

I now have to jump in here, I am 57 and have a 97 STS. I also have a '34 Ford 3 window with a 427 Chevy, 411 gears and a 700R4. I do 0-60 in under 3 seconds (450HP in a 1900# car). I also have a blown 283 T-Bucket. What I am leading up to is I own the Caddy for the ride as well as the fact it gets me where I want to go in comfort (read room). I can cruise all day at 80-85 and be quite comfortable, I cant do that in my other cars. Just because I am "old" isn't the reason for buying the Caddy. Its because I love the styling. Ive had 2 '92 Sevilles also. I am replying mostly to the kid who thinks "old" people only want comfort.

[tkarlstad]

Originally Posted by Ed_Hunt

I now have to jump in here, I am 57 and have a 97 STS. I also have a '34 Ford 3 window with a 427 Chevy, 411 gears and a 700R4. I do 0-60 in under 3 seconds (450HP in a 1900# car). I also have a blown 283 T-Bucket. What I am leading up to is I own the Caddy for the ride as well as the fact it gets me where I want to go in comfort (read room). I can cruise all day at 80-85 and be quite comfortable, I cant do that in my other cars. Just because I am "old" isn't the reason for buying the Caddy. Its because I love the styling. Ive had 2 '92 Sevilles also. I am replying mostly to the kid who thinks "old" people only want comfort.

Well said Ed. I am only 29, but I see all the posts on here about getting more power and tuning up these cadi's and the talk about all the other cars out there today with big HP and output. But the fact is, is these "kids" (tuner monkies) are pouring in all their money and time into a perfectly high end luxury car and they will never see the return on investment that you are going to in your '34 or T-bucket.
You can tune up and modify whatever you want these days, but there will always be something newer and better. However, the old classic hot rod has the HP, the looks, and isn't just deminishing in value by the minute.
You got the caddy for the style and looks with the added comfort! I just don't see my generation buying some plastic toy race car when we are 50 and 60. Cadi holds its own, and will continue to.
Besides, alot of the comparisons in this thread of the Eldo and STS's are to cars of today.(for example, the original post, a 2006 Impala...) The Eldo is done, now XLR, and the STS is newly designed. You want to compare apples to apples compare the Cadi V-series to todays "other cars"(for example the 2006 impala) and you will see that 300HP isn't what Cadi is relying on.

[the727kid]

Im going to guess the pouring of money into the car is reffered to me. Well hey, to each his own, I want my car different and to my liking. I don't ever plan on making money off my car. What I add to it is not an investment at any mean, it is an upgrade to my liking, yes it does decrease the value of the car, but guess what? I don't care because the car is how I like it and I don't plan on selling it. I know too many people that drop 30,000 into box chevys and donks, 442s, ect. and yet the car is only worth 10,000. We "kids", well majority of us, do not put money into a car to make it back. That's what real estate is for.

[tkarlstad]

Originally Posted by the727kid

Im going to guess the pouring of money into the car is reffered to me. Well hey, to each his own, I want my car different and to my liking. I don't ever plan on making money off my car. What I add to it is not an investment at any mean, it is an upgrade to my liking, yes it does decrease the value of the car, but guess what? I don't care because the car is how I like it and I don't plan on selling it. I know too many people that drop 30,000 into box chevys and donks, 442s, ect. and yet the car is only worth 10,000. We "kids", well majority of us, do not put money into a car to make it back. That's what real estate is for.

Kid, I wasn't really referring to anyone on the pouring in of money. I blow money on things that I don't need it, but I like it.

My point was that we do alot to our cars, and in the end they still are no different to the common person. And they still go pretty good on the road, maybe a second or to here or there depending on the modifications.
Not that I do things to my car for others, but I think we can agree that driving a street rod or '64 Impala is much more eye catching and if you were to one day want to get a new "project" , you might have an easier time in trading or moving an old classic vs. a superduper charged, tuned up late 90's early '00's car of anytype.

Anyway, just debate, we could go on and on....but thats it for me.

[addison_ii]

I believe Cadillac has /or is coming to realization that resting on their laurels with just the 300hp NorthStar won't do it. It took them a while but now they are heading in the right direction with making new cars / improving engine and drivetrain packages that will reach out to the buyer who wants speed and new styling and daily drivers capable of being race ready if so desired. The V Series and the soon to commence Super-V Series will attract a lot of buyers who want more horsepower. But I must agree 300hp is not the standard it used to be but hopefully Cadillac will continue to take the steps it has already started and stay a major player in the horsepower wars and attract the power oriented buyer who also wants luxury and class wrapped in a nice package.

[the727kid]

Originally Posted by tkarlstad

Kid, I wasn't really referring to anyone on the pouring in of money. I blow money on things that I don't need it, but I like it.

My point was that we do alot to our cars, and in the end they still are no different to the common person. And they still go pretty good on the road, maybe a second or to here or there depending on the modifications.
Not that I do things to my car for others, but I think we can agree that driving a street rod or '64 Impala is much more eye catching and if you were to one day want to get a new "project" , you might have an easier time in trading or moving an old classic vs. a superduper charged, tuned up late 90's early '00's car of anytype.

Anyway, just debate, we could go on and on....but thats it for me.

I agree a modded up new school is not even on the same value level of a modded up old school. Well when I say modded up old school, I mean more of less restored with maybe a more powerful motor, not in the sense on 26" rims, candy paint, fiberglass interior, and loud system (even though I love those), those cars are worth nothing.

[1Eldo1]

Originally Posted by pos2nat

Last year I opened up my '93 STS on a BMW M3 (not a 325 with M decals) - when I zipped him at 110 and opened up to 140+, he faded pretty fast after barely staying with me from about 85 to 100. I know the M3 will beat me from a standstill but on an open hwy I consider the STS sporty. If the Northstar was not built with sport in mind, why do they perform better at 6,000rpm and shift at 6,700rpm. I redline shift my STS every hwy entrance ramp, and the motor keeps calling for more. For an everyday driver, the STS is as sporty as it gets with low maintenance. I can't imagine redlining my tach on any other daily driver without repair issues.

That must have been a dream. Think about it. The M is at 75 mph, in 2nd gear at 7500 rpm. In 3rd gear it will lose the Caddy. At 140 you will barely see it's taillights. Your car won't go that fast. The M will max (electronically limited) at 155. Was the M in reverse in you "zipped him"?

[Guy,mn.usa]

I agree with Ed Hunt and others on....The 98 STS is a fantastic car,The king of touring! Light weight wheels, aluminum hood, BIG comfort, 425watt Bose, drive train in stock form to die for....SMOOOOOOTH and power to get you in trouble! This car will cruise all day at the ton. The tranny is amazing, it knows what gear you need. The look, the style is very mordern Foose design, I love the look. Ed is a guy with a 32....now is there anything cooler looking than a 32? He must know stlye with a car like that and a fleet of Caddy's behind it. 300 hp is plenty and perfect in a STS...do you need more really? This thing flys with all stock parts and it's wisper quiet with the performance....Did I tell you I love 98 thru 04 STS's
Anyway to reply to 727kid...being in a family of agents, home sales are going south, intrest rates are going north.....and now all these hugh homes bought with arms, intrest only loans are going for forclosure. Kinda a hit or miss right now. A muscle car investment....my example I paid 3000.00 for a 68 gto that had 4000.00 in reicepts for the motor still sitting on the stand and needed to be put back into the car. I put 3000.00 more into the parts bill and 4000.00 to pay the painter(my Bass fishin buddy) to do a frame off to a numbers matching all very original gto...the car even had the proto-plate, window sticker, broadcast sheet..etc. okay 10,000.00 give say 2500.00 in redlines and other little parts to do the job right. Now I have a 68 gto all new suspension, motor, basically a new car. I had it appraised last fall see the attached...the car took a second at the GTOAA with a score of 92 out of a 100 points for a perfect restore. Did I tell ya I love this car too? CAR CRAZY MAN.
ps. the appraisel file was too big to attach...anyway it was 43,000.00...who says stickin money into a car doesn't pay off? I agree some cars it doesn't and some cars like a Caddy what for?

[the727kid]

Lol always have to have the last word huh? But thats fine, clean GTO any more pictures of it??

[Katshot]

I hope you're not trying to say that cars are a better investment than real estate. Right now baby-boomers are artificially inflating the values of a good many cars out there but this too shall pass.

[Guy,mn.usa]

ok maybe a bit strong sorry man. it's a passion

[mtflight]

Originally Posted by DGUT

I just saw an add for the new impala that has 303HP V8. That little piece of crap is now up to an ETC in HP. What is the world coming to. Is anyone scared?

You're talking about the LS4, a Generation IV chevy small block adapted for transverse mounting, with larger displacement. This is a 325 cid engine, vs the 279 cid Northstar. The LS4 is still a pushrod engine. As a larger displacement engine it produces more torqe and hp.

Due to the 32v the Northstar is still more hip if you take into account that it produces over 1 hp per ci. Fact is the LS4 is a bigger engine.

It's also available in the Grand Prix and in the Monte Carlo SS.

It has even better fuel economy due to the DOD (displacement on demand) technology.

The FWD Northstar is maxed out, that's for sure.

The FWD N* still a beauty to drive, because it was so far ahead of it's time back in 1993, but "technology marches on" and as such there are cars as you all mention that can rival this sort of performance... but how long did it take them? almost a decade and a half.

[tkarlstad]

well said.

[mtflight]

I also hate to point out that under the new SAE J1349 standard which requires independent witnesses, the likely output of the "300 hp" L37 Northstar is 292hp (218kw) @ 6300 rpm.

The new SAE standards take into account what kind of gas is used, how much oil in the crankcase, etc., so it was likely tested with regular gas. So the pre 2000 L37 using premium may have a higher output. We'll never know because noone is going to SAE certify it as it is no longer produced.

Mind you, Hyundai was overestimating their hp ratings by as much as 10 % and had to settle in a multi-million dollar lawsuit for this.

Toyota, Honday, Accura, etc lost a lot of hp too. The STS-V, as we all know, gained under the new standard and went from the estimated 440hp to 469hp.