Thermagasket

[rfishing]

Originally Posted by sjwoodruff

No way a Mercedes dealership could get info on your car's issues or past service history from GM. Honestly, dealerships have very little communication between each other amongst similar brands, let alone the competitors. You probably negotiated a strong deal on your new Mercedes and left them with no room to 'give' you a higher trade-in value. If they were killing you on the new car's price, they could show you a higher trade (or over-allow in industry terms) to make you happy. Make money on the new car sale, lose less on the old car trade, make money on the whole deal - that's how dealers, and any company for that matter, stays in business. I have to think that a '94 STS with a bad head gasket will hold very little worth to anyone beside the current owner or a competent shade-tree mechanic that can do the repair on the cheap. Here in C-bus, I'd be lucky to SELL my '98 STS for $6000 - I don't even want to think about a trade-in value, it would probably make me sick! Kelley Blue Book is generally useless when it comes to figuring a car's true value - private retail, dealer retail, trade-in - you name it. Terribly inaccurate!!! The only way to know true wholesale is to get your hands on the most current N.A.R. Black Book - that's what all dealers use. The numbers are real-time averages of all sanctioned auctions nationwide and take into account the car's condition, features and mileage. This is the book dealers don't let you see, but you can order it off the net if you want it. Go to www.blackbookusa.com to investigate yourself...

Good luck with the Thermagasket. I sent the other batch out to another forum member, so maybe the two of you can keep the thread going with your results - good or bad. Let me know if you have any questions about that stuff...

I never told the Benz dealer about the head gasket, wanted to see what the offer was first. Yes I did get a really good deal. Several thousand below retail price anyway.

By the way, rep at Rxauto thermagasket wanted to know if head bolts were retorqued since replacing gaskets. Answer is no, but does anyone think that is needed / required for these engines?

Thanks

[Ranger]

No. I believe I recall "Rob" once say that retorqueing will do no good and may even worsten the problem. Might pull the threads. Don't touch 'em!

[rfishing]

Ranger,

After searching this forum, I see what you mean. Some people have tried, and wound up pulling all the threads out. That sucks. Might have my ThermaGasket stuff tomorrow.

Where do you recommend sticking the garden hose to do the flushing?

[Ranger]

Well, as I have said before, I don't have much faith in repairs in a bottle but I with you luck. I guess the best place to flush is at the highest point, which would be the surge tank and let it run out the lowest point, which would be the radiator drain if you can get at it or the lower hose.

[mtflight]

Did the car overheat after being timeserted, possibly causing the relapsed bad headgasket situation (due to a radiator or waterpump or other cause)?

If the Timesert was done properly and failed for no reason... the block must have severely overheated at some point. I hope that's not the case.

[rfishing]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Well, as I have said before, I don't have much faith in repairs in a bottle but I with you luck. I guess the best place to flush is at the highest point, which would be the surge tank and let it run out the lowest point, which would be the radiator drain if you can get at it or the lower hose.

As I stated before, I am not a mechanic. So dont laugh when I ask you, should the engine be running while the water is flowing out garden hose?

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MtFlight,

car slowly started loosing coolant since beginning of summer. I should add, wife drives car 85-95 mph one hour each way to work. Temps started increasing going up mountain pass elevation 4000 feet. 220 degrees, next time 235, then the last time she drove it, temp hit 250 degrees coming up mountain. I wouldnt let her drive car after that. No coolant low level, or high temp warnings. Just loss of coolant averaging 1-2 pints. Just recently started loosing coolant out overflow hose after a few miles driving (possibly bars leak clogging something, 12 tablets were added to pressure tank). No steam out tailpipe, No coolant in oil. There is new puddle of oil on backside of engine below heads, possibly from oil being overfilled 1 quart last oil change (dealer says no it wouldnt do that, oil would go out pcv valve).

[mtflight]

Originally Posted by rfishing

As I stated before, I am not a mechanic. So dont laugh when I ask you, should the engine be running while the water is flowing?

No. With the engine cold (and OFF)... open the pressure tank.

Then proceed to opening the lower radiator drain. It is located at the bottom driver side corner, facing the engine (next to the fans).

Getting down there may be difficult... so you may want to disconnect the lower hose instead... (which is also very tight to do).

The time I did it (to replace my radiator), I had to take out the fans... which is also tight. You may scrape your knuckles.

Another alternative is to raise the car on ramps, remove the splash shield, and try to reach for the radiator drain with your hand.... this may also be messy because the coolant could splash you... so ....

You don't want to burn yourself. Make sure the coolant is ambient temperature, thus the engine "cold." Also you NEVER want to put hose water in your car if the engine is hot--or you cause immediate cooling which could damage the engine/block. Again... engine cold.

Before you refill... I would put the thermagasket in the lower hose, prior to connecting it back. I don't think the Thermagasket should go in the pressure tank, or the same situation with the "crushed coolant pellets" will repeat itself. There's no heavy flow in there.

[Ranger]

Keep in mind that with the engine cold, the thermostst will be closed so if you need to flush it of ALL coolant, you may have to run it til warm, then drain and refill more than once til it runs clear.

[mtflight]

Originally Posted by Ranger

Keep in mind that with the engine cold, the thermostst will be closed so if you need to flush it of ALL coolant, you may have to run it til warm, then drain and refill more than once til it runs clear.

Implied that he lets it cool off in between. Otherwise the cold water from the hose could damage the block.

[STS 310]

Originally Posted by Ranger

No. I believe I recall "Rob" once say that retorqueing will do no good and may even worsten the problem. Might pull the threads. Don't touch 'em!

Good stuff Ranger, "Rob", yea.

Kind of miss that dude around here...

[sjwoodruff]

Originally Posted by rfishing

As I stated before, I am not a mechanic. So dont laugh when I ask you, should the engine be running while the water is flowing out garden hose?

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MtFlight,

car slowly started loosing coolant since beginning of summer. I should add, wife drives car 85-95 mph one hour each way to work. Temps started increasing going up mountain pass elevation 4000 feet. 220 degrees, next time 235, then the last time she drove it, temp hit 250 degrees coming up mountain. I wouldnt let her drive car after that. No coolant low level, or high temp warnings. Just loss of coolant averaging 1-2 pints. Just recently started loosing coolant out overflow hose after a few miles driving (possibly bars leak clogging something, 12 tablets were added to pressure tank). No steam out tailpipe, No coolant in oil. There is new puddle of oil on backside of engine below heads, possibly from oil being overfilled 1 quart last oil change (dealer says no it wouldnt do that, oil would go out pcv valve).

If you open the drain cock on the radiator (below the lower hose - there should be an access hole in the plastic splash guard) and let the coolant drain out, that will get you started. I believe it takes a ¾” socket. Take a garden hose and allow it to run continuously into the surge tank. Eventually, the water exiting the radiator will be clear. At that point, close the radiator and completely fill the system. Now run the car until it reaches normal operating temp so that the thermostat opens. Allow the car to idle for a while so that the residual coolant (there’s always about 4.5 quarts left in the system) mixes with the fresh water. Allow the car to cool for about 15-20 minutes. Open radiator and drain system completely. Flush system with vehicle off like before until pure water is exiting radiator. Refill with pure water, idle to operating temp and repeat. Do this until the water coming out of the radiator isn’t tinted orange from the Dexcool.

The Thermagasket should be added through the UPPER radiator hose after the engine is flushed for the last time. The engine needs to be warm for the product to work correctly. As soon as it is added to the upper hose, clamp the hose back down and fill the surge tank with water. It will take about 2 - 2 ½ gallons to refill. I used hot water from the tap so that the Thermagasket wouldn’t clump up. Once the system is filled back up, follow the directions provided with the Thermagasket and hopefully all will work out for you.

One more word of advice…You may have read on the forum that regular wide-open-throttle cycles are healthy for the Northstar. Though this is very true, I highly advise against performing WOT on a repaired head gasket. The difference in cylinder pressure during WOT will certainly shorten the life of the repair.

[sjwoodruff]

Well, couple more things...you probably have green coolant, so ignore my orange tint comment above.

Like flight said, let the engine cool before adding cold water to the system to prevent block damage. The flushing part is a pain because there will always be about 4.5 quarts of fluid left in the system. You just have to be patient - drain, refill, run car to mix everything up, and repeat. Time consuming - give yourself a few hours to do it right.

Don't worry about using hose water. It will only be in your system for 400 miles. When you flush out the sealer, you can use hose water again. Once your close to getting all the sealer out of the system, you can start flushing with distilled water from the grocery store. Flushing the sealer out is as time consuming as flushing the coolant out, by the way.

Remember that there will be 4.5 quarts of pure water in the coolant system when you're finally ready to refill with coolant. Use an 80/20 mix of coolant/distilled water for this reason. This will leave you with a final mix of about 50/50.

[rfishing]

Directions are great thank you. Just a few last questions:

1. Did you have to change or remove your thermostat? Mine is fairly new.

2. When you added Thermogasket into top hose, was engine warm or cold?

3. Did you add any hot water to upper radiator hose along with the thermogasket?

4 About how much Distilled water should I buy?

thanks

[mtflight]

1. Did you have to change or remove your thermostat?

NO


4 About how much Distilled water should I buy?

System holds 12.5 quarts. 2 Gallons of Coolant and 2 Gallons of Distilled H2O yelds 12 quarts.

I would also purchase 1 "quickfill, pre-mix" for that 1/2 quart.

[sjwoodruff]

Originally Posted by rfishing

Directions are great thank you. Just a few last questions:

1. Did you have to change or remove your thermostat? Mine is fairly new.

2. When you added Thermogasket into top hose, was engine warm or cold?

3. Did you add any hot water to upper radiator hose along with the thermogasket?

4 About how much Distilled water should I buy?

thanks

I replied to the PM you sent me. Good luck. Let us know your results.