Thermagasket

[peteski]

The point is that in Northstar engines with the pressure tank, those Bar Leaks tablets *MIGHT* clog the hoses attached to the pressure tank. This has been covered in dozens of posts on the subject in the past!

It is because the "goop" from those tablets is pretty thick and there is very little flow to-and-from the pressure tank. Little flow means that they might not always disperse into the coolant.

So, you might get lucky and not clog up anything, but why take that chance?

Peteski

[91TexasSeville]

Originally Posted by rfishing

Added 6 more bars leak tabs yesterday, they were crushed up and added to pressure tank. This morning pressure tank was full of antifreeze and no signs of gunking up of the bars leak. So far so good, will go to recheck for gas in coolant in a day or two.

Paaaa lea sssse!

At what point did the product instructions clearly state to grind up the tabs into the surge tank?

Following directions is not your strong suit Mr.rfishing

[rfishing]

No thanks for the individual attacks on me. Now I could stoop to your level and start badmouthing some people on here, but I will refrain.

In my defense, I took this car to a mechanic and watched the mechanic crushing the tablets, and inserting them into the pressure tank. I did this twice, and both Mechanics (ASE Certified and with many years experience) did this and not me. I questioned them both about it, as I have read all the messages on here about inserting into radiator hose, and they both told me I am misinformed.

Both mechanics gave me same response, "this was okay as it is not an overflow tank, but a pressure tank and has sufficient coolant flow to disperse the crushed up tablets."

If you read my previous posts and think I currently have a clogged pressure tank, then explain to me why the coolant is flowing out of the nipple when I blow into the small hose, which is disconnected from the nipple at pressure tank?

Today, Thermagasket support rep told me I may have dislodged a clog by blowing into the small hose. I do not think the puff of air I gave dislodged anything. Either way, I assume my system is back to normal now because it is not overflowing anymore.

I will add this however, that the coolant appears to be thick from the bars tablets. I am concerned that the mechanics added too much bars tablets, and this may cause foaming? After all they added 2 packages (12 tablets). Can anyone respond politely to my idea about foaming causing the coolant to overflow out the overflow hose? I mean to ask, is that possible for it to foam?

As for the Bars Leak instructions, you will have to read for yourself. My empties were tossed into the trash however, when I buy more I will gladly scan the instructions for all to read. Anyone have a package to scan?

[91TexasSeville]

Originally Posted by rfishing

No thanks for the individual attacks on me. Now I could stoop to your level and start badmouthing some people on here, but I will refrain.

In my defense, I took this car to a mechanic and watched the mechanic crushing the tablets, and inserting them into the pressure tank. I did this twice, and both Mechanics (ASE Certified and with many years experience) did this and not me. I questioned them both about it, as I have read all the messages on here about inserting into radiator hose, and they both told me I am misinformed.

Both mechanics gave me same response, "this was okay as it is not an overflow tank, but a pressure tank and has sufficient coolant flow to disperse the crushed up tablets."

If you read my previous posts and think I currently have a clogged pressure tank, then explain to me why the coolant is flowing out of the nipple when I blow into the small hose, which is disconnected from the nipple at pressure tank?

Today, Thermagasket support rep told me I may have dislodged a clog by blowing into the small hose. I do not think the puff of air I gave dislodged anything. Either way, I assume my system is back to normal now because it is not overflowing anymore.

I will add this however, that the coolant appears to be thick from the bars tablets. I am concerned that the mechanics added too much bars tablets, and this may cause foaming? After all they added 2 packages (12 tablets). Can anyone respond politely to my idea about foaming causing the coolant to overflow out the overflow hose? I mean to ask, is that possible for it to foam?

As for the Bars Leak instructions, you will have to read for yourself. My empties were tossed into the trash however, when I buy more I will gladly scan the instructions for all to read. Anyone have a package to scan?

*Chuckle....
My you are up early this morning! Trouble sleeping? Nobody is "bad mouthing" you Mr. rfishing. This is merely a forum to "help" others help themselves through the expression of experience or professional opinion . Nothing personal Mr. rfishing. I sincerely believe the help you need is outside the boundries of this forum. But that is just my opinion, not fact, nor should that be construed as a personal attack.

I assure you Mr. rfishing, you were not misinformed by this forum pertaining to installing the coolant suppliment in the lower radiator hose. That is common practice. Your mechanic(s) have sufficient Cadillac NorthStar training?

[davesdeville]

No matter what any instructions say, there is a hell of a lot more of a chance you'll get a clog adding the suppliment to the pressurized surge tank than to a radiator hose. And that's just common sense.

But hell if you didn't get a clog then no harm done, right?

[91TexasSeville]

Originally Posted by davesdeville

No matter what any instructions say, there is a hell of a lot more of a chance you'll get a clog adding the suppliment to the pressurized surge tank than to a radiator hose. And that's just common sense.

But hell if you didn't get a clog then no harm done, right?

yeah...no harm other than a mountain of foam...*LOL

[Jesda]

When dealing with any complex high-revving V8, real-world knowledge and experience trumps industry certification.

You can save the trouble of crushing tablets by purchasing the product in powder form.

[rfishing]

Originally Posted by 91TexasSeville

*Chuckle....
My you are up early this morning! Trouble sleeping? Nobody is "bad mouthing" you Mr. rfishing. This is merely a forum to "help" others help themselves through the expression of experience or professional opinion . Nothing personal Mr. rfishing. I sincerely believe the help you need is outside the boundries of this forum. But that is just my opinion, not fact, nor should that be construed as a personal attack.

I assure you Mr. rfishing, you were not misinformed by this forum pertaining to installing the coolant suppliment in the lower radiator hose. That is common practice. Your mechanic(s) have sufficient Cadillac NorthStar training?

My Dealership gave me car back and suggested using stop leak. That is how this mess started in first place. I tried to trade it in, but Mercedes out right rejected it. If its running well, I could sell for 5-6k possibly. Not worth the cost of a new engine, besides none are available. None of the shops in my area will overhaul a Norstar engine, they have bad reputation for failing around here. So back to Bars Leak or some other liquid patch. I am leaning towards the Therma Gasket.

[mcowden]

Originally Posted by rfishing

My Dealership gave me car back and suggested using stop leak. That is how this mess started in first place. I tried to trade it in, but Mercedes out right rejected it. If its running well, I could sell for 5-6k possibly. Not worth the cost of a new engine, besides none are available. None of the shops in my area will overhaul a Norstar engine, they have bad reputation for failing around here. So back to Bars Leak or some other liquid patch. I am leaning towards the Therma Gasket.

Well, despite what I have said to irritate you, I do hope that the Thermagasket thing works for you. I know the circumstances and there's no doubt about it: They suck. You really got a raw deal. The dealership that did the head gasket screwed you over. It sounds exactly like they either didn't use Timeserts or they didn't do the Timesert job properly. GM had nothing to do with it. It was some lazy, paycheck-focused, quality-ignorant $h1t-for-brains part swapper moron who worked on your car apparently, and it's the independently-owned dealership that should be the focus of your ire, not GM. Why the head gasket failed originally is anyone's guess. There apparently have been a small percentage of cases where something went awry despite proper maintenance, and you were unlucky enough to get one of those cars. Most of them are not like that. Hopefully the Thermagasket will get you through until you can do something else with the car. sjwoodruff's posts are promising enough that you may have a chance here.

Those ASE-certified mechtards who put the Bar's in the surge tank are also morons. You should stay the #ell away from that place for mechanical advice. Their methodology doesn't make lick 1 of sense. They have no idea what they're working on or how the system works apparently. Sounds like it's time to do some networking and find a good mechanic, whether s/he is certified or not. Dealerships are not treating you very well, and unfortunately you're one of millions.

Good luck...

[Ranger]

Originally Posted by rfishing

I will add this however, that the coolant appears to be thick from the bars tablets. I am concerned that the mechanics added too much bars tablets, and this may cause foaming? After all they added 2 packages (12 tablets). Can anyone respond politely to my idea about foaming causing the coolant to overflow out the overflow hose? I mean to ask, is that possible for it to foam?

I seem to recall our old friend "Rob" once being asked the same question, "How much is two much?". I recall him saying that it is hard to add too much and gave a number of something like 20 tabs. 12 would certainly make the coolant appear thick. As for foaming, I would not think that the tabs would cause that (though I could be wrong). Keep in mind, that the purge line is meant to purge air from the system, so there will be some air bubbles or "foaming" but it should be minimal. If yours is excessive, then it may be from whatever else you put in the system (I forget as this has been a long thread).I would also suspect that the overdose of sealant tabs is what is causing the temporary fix (however long temporary may be is yet to be seen).

[rfishing]

Since this started, I only added 50/50 coolant mix, and 12 of the bars leak tabs. Today started engine, runs greats, no sign of leaks. Took car for test drive about 7 miles, temperature went up to 223 at traffic light and started coming back down. When I came home temp was 200, and coolant was coming out of the overflow hose.

Contacted a seperate mechanic and he thinks this is due to the head gasket, not due to clogged tank, clogged equalizer line, or too much bars leak.

I will be ordering ThermaGasket and will update after applying it.

Thanks

[rangatang]

There is no way that a head gasket leak can be fixed by dropping something (anything) into the cooling system.If proper test were done,and the head gasket is the problem.The only fix is a NEW GASKET.I know this is the 21st century and there are some very good additives out there but honestly,,,,with the heat and temps in the heads.Any mechanic who say,s otherwise thinks the moon is made of cheese....save the cost of the product and fix it properly...

[91TexasSeville]

My heart really does go out to your Mr. rfishing .....honestly!

I am deeply sorry about the problems you faced, and if the Thermagasket works for you, all the better. I hope you achieve the same success as Mr.sjwoodruff

As far as the value of your car and the cost of installing a new engine, that is really a decision only you can make. I should hope you do not consult the same dealership with any future business.

Dealerships "take" trades in any condition, believe me they do. What you are offered for your trade is quite another story.

Keep us informed of your decision and your progress. Good Luck Mr. rfishing

[rfishing]

Originally Posted by 91TexasSeville

My heart really does go out to your Mr. rfishing .....honestly!

I am deeply sorry about the problems you faced, and if the Thermagasket works for you, all the better. I hope you achieve the same success as Mr.sjwoodruff

As far as the value of your car and the cost of installing a new engine, that is really a decision only you can make. I should hope you do not consult the same dealership with any future business.

Dealerships "take" trades in any condition, believe me they do. What you are offered for your trade is quite another story.

Keep us informed of your decision and your progress. Good Luck Mr. rfishing

Is it possible Mercedes found something about my 94 STS when they checked for the vehicle Blue book? I did contact GM Cadillac in Detroit and they have a file on my car, is it possible this shows up? All I know, they came back shaking there head saying, no way will we take this car. I asked, not even for 2 grand? They replied, no it is better for us to not take your car.

Cadillac dealer brought Kelly blue book up and said, 5500 for trade in. Then they found it was blown head gasket because they questioned service department when they brought car around for inspection. Next thing I know, they just shake head, say sorry.

I could not believe myself that either place would not even give me an offer for it.

Waiting for the ThermaGasket to arrive.

[sjwoodruff]

Originally Posted by rfishing

Is it possible Mercedes found something about my 94 STS when they checked for the vehicle Blue book? I did contact GM Cadillac in Detroit and they have a file on my car, is it possible this shows up? All I know, they came back shaking there head saying, no way will we take this car. I asked, not even for 2 grand? They replied, no it is better for us to not take your car.

Cadillac dealer brought Kelly blue book up and said, 5500 for trade in. Then they found it was blown head gasket because they questioned service department when they brought car around for inspection. Next thing I know, they just shake head, say sorry.

I could not believe myself that either place would not even give me an offer for it.

Waiting for the ThermaGasket to arrive.

No way a Mercedes dealership could get info on your car's issues or past service history from GM. Honestly, dealerships have very little communication between each other amongst similar brands, let alone the competitors. You probably negotiated a strong deal on your new Mercedes and left them with no room to 'give' you a higher trade-in value. If they were killing you on the new car's price, they could show you a higher trade (or over-allow in industry terms) to make you happy. Make money on the new car sale, lose less on the old car trade, make money on the whole deal - that's how dealers, and any company for that matter, stays in business. I have to think that a '94 STS with a bad head gasket will hold very little worth to anyone beside the current owner or a competent shade-tree mechanic that can do the repair on the cheap. Here in C-bus, I'd be lucky to SELL my '98 STS for $6000 - I don't even want to think about a trade-in value, it would probably make me sick! Kelley Blue Book is generally useless when it comes to figuring a car's true value - private retail, dealer retail, trade-in - you name it. Terribly inaccurate!!! The only way to know true wholesale is to get your hands on the most current N.A.R. Black Book - that's what all dealers use. The numbers are real-time averages of all sanctioned auctions nationwide and take into account the car's condition, features and mileage. This is the book dealers don't let you see, but you can order it off the net if you want it. Go to www.blackbookusa.com to investigate yourself...

Good luck with the Thermagasket. I sent the other batch out to another forum member, so maybe the two of you can keep the thread going with your results - good or bad. Let me know if you have any questions about that stuff...