Thermagasket - Page 16

boricuacaddy · #**226** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

I agree with mtflight. My '97 Deville ran a consistant 206 (summer), 213-216 (winter).

I hear so many different stories about the normal operating Temp for a Northstar. It is all over the boards. I called 2 different dealers and they said that my car is running witthin the normal operating temp (206 up to 225). I have read were some other cadillac owners are running between 196 to 206. I would like to know how come this is possible on some of the same engines? My car has been maintain since day one. Have all the service records.

David

mtflight · #**227** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boricuacaddy

I hear so many different stories about the normal operating Temp for a Northstar. It is all over the boards. I called 2 different dealers and they said that my car is running witthin the normal operating temp (206 up to 225). I have read were some other cadillac owners are running between 196 to 206. I would like to know how come this is possible on some of the same engines? My car has been maintain since day one. Have all the service records.

David

Simple--the car runs cooler when it's going fast, and warmer when it's sitting through traffic. Response to your question: driving habits.

If you use your A/C, then both fans typically run, keeping it cooler.
If you don't use your A/C, only one fan runs, until it reaches 224, then the second one kicks in.

If you car goes up to 225, I suspect you idle a lot and you don't use the A/C all that often (economode does not count).

You can open the hood and see for yourself that when the coolant temperature is around 200, if you turn off the A/C the second fan will shut off with it, letting temperatures creep back up--then when necessary, it turns on to bring them back down.

rfishing · #**228** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 04:37 PM

I have to concur, driving with automode leaves the AC fan running, and because of that, stop and go traffic temps do stay lower. In Econo mode, the temp will climb up until the drivers side fan kicks on and drops it back down, especially when in stop and go traffic.

On my new Mercedes slk, they seemed to have resolved the problem of people complaining about temperature swings. They made the temp display in Celcius only, and put it on a electronic bar graph display, so you can barely see it move, and you have to search through a large menu of options just to get to the display.

I do not convert celcius so quickly, and have basically given up on trying to monitor the display. Dealer tells me, dont worry about the car, it will tell you if it needs coolant, or if it is getting too hot. They say, If you break down, just push the button that looks like a wrench we will send someone to help you.

boricuacaddy · #**229** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 04:43 PM

Thanks mtflight, That makes me understand more clearly about the temp. I do not as a matter of fact use my AC that often. I think it only starts up when I am on defrost, if I am not mistaken. It takes me 45 minutes to get home after work and it is all stop and go traffic mostly. So, I sometimes am bored and watch the Temp. reading and see it creeping up to 222 and back down to 210 on it's own. Sorry if I hijacked this thread but was just curious since rfishing was having so much different temp. readings on his car. I feel bad about his car, I know I would be steaming if I got my car repaired and it started to do the same thing again and it was out of warranty.

David

rfishing · #**230** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boricuacaddy

Thanks mtflight, That makes me understand more clearly about the temp. I do not as a matter of fact use my AC that often. I think it only starts up when I am on defrost, if I am not mistaken. It takes me 45 minutes to get home after work and it is all stop and go traffic mostly. So, I sometimes am bored and watch the Temp. reading and see it creeping up to 222 and back down to 210 on it's own. Sorry if I hijacked this thread but was just curious since rfishing was having so much different temp. readings on his car. I feel bad about his car, I know I would be steaming if I got my car repaired and it started to do the same thing again and it was out of warranty.

David

If you are losing coolant along with the temp going up, then worry. Otherwise it is normal. So far your car is getting you from point A to point B safely, and as Martha Stewart says, Thats a good thing!

As for the cause of my head gasket blowing, Im pretty sure it was due to the loose lower radiator hose clamp I found. Unfortunately the mechanics I had check my car did not find it, I did. All they did was do a block test for exhaust gases in the coolant, and stopped when it was positive. Looking back, I suppose that test is good enough.

Windrider · #**231** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 06:31 PM

Good on you for sticking with this problem and sharing all your results. I have two things to add. The first is about the water pump belt tensioner. I have had a serious overheat because the bakelite material that supports the tensioner wheel melted and stopped the belt from turning the water pump. I replaced the whole tensioner assembly because that’s the way the dealer sells it. On the new assembly the tension is strong requiring some effort to work the spring so maybe your tensioner is allowing the belt to slip and whenever you put the engine under stress it can't deliver enough coolant to do the job. I would recommend replaceing the assembly.

The other thing is that I have replaced some of the spring hose clamps with stainless screw type hose clamps. I have discovered that the ones attached to the hoses on the engine work themselves loose over time and I lose coolant. The coolant loss is hard to observe because it happens when the engine is hot and it just evaporates. So if you have changed clamps maybe they are loose.

sjwoodruff · #**232** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dons96vette

Any update from SJWOODRUFF on the thermagasket fix? It's been several months now.

My car's good so far. Took it on the holidays - five hours one way, no problems to this point.

**Ranger** · #**233** (**permalink**) 01-11-06, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boricuacaddy

I hear so many different stories about the normal operating Temp for a Northstar. It is all over the boards. I called 2 different dealers and they said that my car is running witthin the normal operating temp (206 up to 225). I have read were some other cadillac owners are running between 196 to 206. I would like to know how come this is possible on some of the same engines? My car has been maintain since day one. Have all the service records.

David

The numbers I gave where "normal" for my car. As mtflight said, the fans don't even come on til 224 so that is considered "normal". While your temps are a tad higher than I am used to, I would not worry about them.

rfishing · #**234** (**permalink**) 01-12-06, 12:40 AM

About this tensioner, the one on my engine is probably not original, as everything seems to be aluminum material, and this one is mostly black plastic case, even the wheel is plasitic. Because of design size, it seems just enough distance to hold the belt in place and put a little tension on the belt, but that is as far as it will go over. I was concerned that the tension might not be enough to tighten the belt up around the pump and cam. Lets put it this way, I read else where about using a 1/4 inch bar to move it, but when I took the old belt off I used my hand to slip the old belt off, and I used my hand to move the tension from left to right to check for freedom of movement ie, not rusted in place. Cannot rust in place it is plastic. When I put the new belt on, I simply moved the wheel back with my hand and pulled the new belt over the wheel. I only had to move the tensioner back about 1/2 inch to slide the new belt on the wheel. I have moved through the tension a full inch without a bar. The wheel spins freely with belt off.

Does that sound about right?

I want to say this about the folks at RXAuto.com where I bought the Thermagasket. They have been extremely helpful in answering my questions both in email and telephone. It does not surprise me that today without question, RXauto returned the $99.95 I paid for Thermagasket. Also, if it turns out I just need to keep the overheating problem is check, then they refered me to another type of coolant to help with that issue. Kirk at Rxauto.com still does not feel this is a head gasket problem, so I should probably rule out the head gasket with a Leak Down Test before proceeding.

http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Au...ng642a350.html

peteski · #**235** (**permalink**) 01-12-06, 12:51 AM

I'm pretty sure the tensioner on my 93 Eldo is original and it is also mostly made of plastic. So, that is probably ok. It doen't exert all that much pressure on the belt either, but it is a small belt. Not like you're running AC, Power Steering and Alternator off of it. Just the water pump.

The 1/4" breaker bar procedure is for the main serpentine belt, not the water pump belt.

Peteski

denscor · #**236** (**permalink**) 01-12-06, 01:04 AM

Very good stuff! I have used it in my race car!!! Try Red Line it works great also!

**Ranger** · #**237** (**permalink**) 01-12-06, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peteski

I'm pretty sure the tensioner on my 93 Eldo is original and it is also mostly made of plastic. So, that is probably ok. It doen't exert all that much pressure on the belt either, but it is a small belt. Not like you're running AC, Power Steering and Alternator off of it. Just the water pump.

The 1/4" breaker bar procedure is for the main serpentine belt, not the water pump belt.

Peteski

The serpentine belt uses a 1/2" breaker bar. The water pump tentioner uses a 1/4" bar. My '97 exerted enough tention that I was not able to move it with thumb pressure. At least not with the guard on.

rfishing · #**238** (**permalink**) 01-13-06, 02:07 AM

I checked the tensioner again. Without removing the plastic cover over the belt and tensioner, I am barely able to budge the tensioner with my fingers. The belt does feel like it has good grip around the cam pulley. Im pretty sure the tensioner is okay.

My coolant level is normal today.

Back side of engine near where head gasket is probably located, there is a small valley about 1 inch wide that goes length of engine, and it has a large amount of oil accumulated in it. This oil was not there before the mountain drive, as I cleaned the oil in there prior to driving. More oil in there now then ever before.

I drove car about 15 miles today on level ground, mix of stop and go and fast roads. Prior to driving cleaned overflow hose dry, and after arriving at home I rechecked and hose is dry still. Temp never went over 199 during the drive.

Basically back to the beginning with this engine, runs great, just don't dare take it up a mountain.

My wife has a name of local mechanic from a friend. In a few days, I will be arranging for the Leak Down Test, probably next week.

mtflight · #**239** (**permalink**) 01-13-06, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfishing

I checked the tensioner again. Without removing the plastic cover over the belt and tensioner, I am barely able to budge the tensioner with my fingers. The belt does feel like it has good grip around the cam pulley. Im pretty sure the tensioner is okay.

My coolant level is normal today.

Back side of engine near where head gasket is probably located, there is a small valley about 1 inch wide that goes length of engine, and it has a large amount of oil accumulated in it. This oil was not there before the mountain drive, as I cleaned the oil in there prior to driving. More oil in there now then ever before.

I drove car about 15 miles today on level ground, mix of stop and go and fast roads. Prior to driving cleaned overflow hose dry, and after arriving at home I rechecked and hose is dry still. Temp never went over 199 during the drive.

Basically back to the beginning with this engine, runs great, just don't dare take it up a mountain.

My wife has a name of local mechanic from a friend. In a few days, I will be arranging for the Leak Down Test, probably next week.

Wow. Well take him a printout of the description of the head gasket tests from the Technical Archive.

rfishing · #**240** (**permalink**) 01-14-06, 04:07 PM

I called this repair shop about doing the leak down test, and he insists that it is waste of money. That checking for Combustion Gases in the coolant is accurate enough for checking blown head gaskets. That out of 100 times, it will be accurate 99 times. He wants $216 for the leak down test, and $40 to check for combustion gases.

Also, he told me, the leak down test is to check for bad valves, or something to that effect. That it might not be accuarate? Im getting confused even more now.

Can someone explain this for me.