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2003 STS - Anything I need to know?

6K views 46 replies 11 participants last post by  MoistCabbage 
#1 ·
I've been eyeing an STS for a while now, but the ones for sale in my area were lackluster, but yesterday an 03 black/black STS with 90k miles showed up on craigslist asking 5,000. I emailed the guy instantly, and I'm going to look at it this evening. I know the N* was redesigned, but HG failure is still possible. I'm going to pull the codes, check the surge tank and see if anything overheats, but other than that that could be the one I've been waiting for!:bouncy: Is there anything in particular I should be aware of for this year?
 
#3 ·
Tough question for a 90,000 mile car. You don't have time to read the entire Seville forum, Northstar forum, and the Cadillac Technical Archive. :devil:

If you do a test drive, for a F55 STS (2002.5 - 2003) the harder you push it the tighter the suspension and steering get.

At least, pull the codes from the car's built-in scanner and decipher them with http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm
 
#4 ·
Hehe, perhaps I should take an afternoon for some reading... :p I figured a short answer like what Ranger said is all I need to start diving in deeper to educate.

I read up on the leaky trunk and will lookout for that, and I'll keep in mind the suspension during the drive. I'm taking it to a Firestone car inspection before I buy it so I'll see what turns up. I'll pull the internal codes too don't worry. My senses will be hyper aware for any engine issues. Driving a Deville now I know all too well what can happen.. :banghead:
 
#6 · (Edited)
Alright so I went to go look at it. Not too bad. He's asking $5000 (KBB says 4600 new) but the car is far from cosmetically that condition, but someone is offering him a trade which he is heavily considering, so fingers crossed we can work something out.
Lots of codes to check though, I think all were history, probably hasn't flushed in a while.
EDIT: I just went through them, most are just Serial Data Loss, and Battery Circuit Open, but there was also RSS C0615 - LF Circuit Open and C0579 Solenoid Circuit Open. Those stood out to me, but they were also History.
Chrome wheels are flaking at the lug nut spots, the yellow tint is peeling/separating off the drivers side mirror, and the owner and his father apparently installed a dogbone mount to the front of the engine (???) He said he got it from a junkyard deville because the STS engine was pulling or something.. Hiding a a major problem or just smart DIY?
Auto part Engine Vehicle Car
 
#13 · (Edited)
Alright so I went to go look at it. Not too bad. He's asking $5000 (KBB says 4600 new) but the car is far from cosmetically that condition, but someone is offering him a trade which he is heavily considering, so fingers crossed we can work something out.
Lots of codes to check though, I think all were history, probably hasn't flushed in a while.
EDIT: I just went through them, most are just Serial Data Loss, and Battery Circuit Open, but there was also RSS C0615 - LF Circuit Open and C0579 Solenoid Circuit Open. Those stood out to me, but they were also History.
Chrome wheels are flaking at the lug nut spots, the yellow tint is peeling/separating off the drivers side mirror, and the owner and his father apparently installed a dogbone mount to the front of the engine (???) He said he got it from a junkyard deville because the STS engine was pulling or something.. Hiding a a major problem or just smart DIY?
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He's asking $5000 (KBB says 4600 new)
but the car is far from cosmetically that condition,

that alone should tell you to WALK AWAY

Lots of codes to check though -
lack of maintenance - another BIG red flag -
telling you to WALK AWAY -

hasn't flushed in a while -
that is a BIG no-no - displaying more neglect -
and another red flag -
there was also RSS C0615 -
LF Circuit Open


you got the code definition wrong -
C0615 - Left Front Position Sensor Malfunction

and C0579 LF Solenoid Circuit Open -
the car needs front struts -
around $1120 - not including labor -
and that is a deeply discounted on-line price -

Chrome wheels are flaking -
a used set of wheels $400 - PLUS mounting and balancing -

the yellow tint is peeling/separating off the drivers side mirror,
the mirror needs to be replaced - $????
can YOU pull the door apart and replace it yourself?
if NO - $200 - MINUMUM - with same color used part -

the owner and his father
apparently installed a dogbone mount to the front of the engine
He said he got it from a junkyard deville
because the STS engine was pulling

ya - he hacked in a $10 junkyard part -
rather than spending $200 to replace the broken motor mount -

NOTE - the big plastic air deflector is missing -
because it will NOT fit with the dogbone in the way -

custom hackery at it's best/WORST - another reason to WALK AWAY -

this car has been neglected - and RIGGED -
is going to be a MONEY WELL -
 
#8 ·
Hmm, never knew that was a thing people did. Unfortunately he only has it on the passenger side........
Would the car inspection that I'm planning on doing look at motor mounts too?
He also mention the car has the "Seville shimmy" too, as well as LF tie rod that wasnt done right (by him) so the car veers. I'd rate him as a somewhat experience car guy, does his own oil and drains every 3k. Him and his dad replaced the fuel paddle thru the trunk some time ago because the gauge was bobbing. Needs new tires too. But at least there were no PCM codes. Engine seems to be ok and no sign of any oil in the coolant.
And the tint is coming off the mirror... :sad:
Vehicle door Rear-view mirror Mirror Automotive mirror Vehicle
 
#9 ·
All that and a price tag of $5k???

Walk...

Should be able find a damn fine 2003 for cheap these days, it's an 11 year old car!

BTW, Northstars don't mix oil/coolant with bad HG's. A block test is the only definitive answer.
 
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#10 · (Edited)
The pre '98 Sevilles have dog bones. They really saved the front mount. Definitely look at the 3 hydraulic mounts.

3K oil changes haven't been necessary since the '70's. Do some reading in the technical archives about the OLM.

Tie rod ends can not be replaced correctly without an alignment machine. Even measuring/counting threads doesn't quite cut it.

That's not tint on the mirror. The rear view and drivers side view mirror are electrochromatic dimming. There's liquid between two pieces of glass. The seal has broken. It has to be replaced.
 
#16 ·
======================
the F55 MagnaRide struts and shocks started mid-year 2002 -

the STS models before that have the F45 struts and shocks -
they are even MORE expensive than the F55 -

-------------------

these cars are cheap to buy -
and VERY EXPENSIVE to own - maintain - and drive -

these were in the $50,000+ price range when new -

maintenance and repair costs are based on the original $50K price tag -
NOT the $5000 used car price -

you really want to drive a Seville?
you WILL pay - and PAY - AND PAY -
 
#15 · (Edited)
From '00 up, the main difference is suspension. STSs built before 2/15/02 have F45/CVRSS. An electric actuator controls a variable orifice inside the shocks/struts to bart damping force.

Cars built on or after 2/15/02 have F55/Magneride. Electromagnets vary the viscosity of magnetorheological fluid in the shocks/struts.

Different navigation system for '02 up, different badging too, the optional 17" rims became standard for Magneride cars, 01 and older cars have unusable Onstar, a voice command/end button replaces the fan speed control buttons on the steering wheel in '02+ cars..... There are other obscure differences, but nothing that a normal consumer would be concerned with that I can think of.
 
#17 ·
Put your checkbook in your pocket and walk. The code descriptions and engine picture killed the deal for me.

That mirror "tint" is actually the heater film - the mirrors are heated.

BUT - and this is a big BUT - these cars are now at least 12 model years old. Stuff wears out, rots, breaks regardless of mileage. They're neat, nice, fast cars for what they are - and you will need deep pockets to keep them that way.
 
#18 ·
That car doesn't look to be maintained properly, what was done to it was done on a budget.
The thing is with these cars, you shouldn't do things on a budget...
If you buy that car have a $7000 spare for the first year (assuming you plan driving for long).

The mirror is 2 layers, first one is glass and the back one is the mirror, in between there is a fluid (liquid crystal, same thing on your TV). When you have a car in the back there is a light sensor in the rear view mirror (on the windshield) and that will command the mirrors to dim so the headlamps don't shine in your eyes. This liquid crystal gets darker thus it tints the mirror.
You need to replace the mirror (just the mirror insert not the whole assembly), probably used is in the $50+ range, new is hundreds. The thing is most mechanics don't get how that works and how important is to snap it properly in place so most people will complain after that their mirror is making a clicking sound (that is because the sensors are not attached properly to the mirror). Needles to say being a Cadillac it has position memory thus involves not just a switch wires and some motor, it also involves a controller module and some position sensors and some more wires. This is the case with every single component, and this is why stuff is expensive and hard to find qualified people to fix it.
Most people will say the struts are expensive and so on, is not just struts, is also control module, is height sensors, is lost of electronics in the background not apparent to the driver.
Some will say Cadillac are old fashion…well the thing is are far more advance than most cars (with lots of buttons) the difference is are designed to work in the background for the driver not require the driver to adjust 100 things. This is why you don’t have a button to adjust say the suspension. There are sensors for that and everything is keept just right.
Let’s consider a climate control... you have one with a button for fan speed, one for heat level one for cold level one for A/C on/off, or you have a knob to set the temperature to a desired level and forget about it. The second one is far more complicated than the first one yet first one looks technological because it has many buttons.
Anyway…Cadillac, great car, cheap to buy used (less than a Hyundai), but you have to be able to afford it on the long run.
 
#22 ·
Funny thing is I had completely written off owning a Seville since the miles were working against me and for a while was pursuing foreign upper level cars, but when I saw this black STS with only 90k, and 2003 (door label says 3/03), it reignited the flame, so to speak, but I will trust your judgement here. My rationale for low miles is that the wear and tear on the car will be much lower , hence giving me more time before I have to start replacing things. For the record, my current car a 17 year old Deville is at 98k miles and aside from the headgaskets the repair costs on the car have been pretty low in the past 4 years I've owned it.

Orconn, I am in the Zanesville/Newark area, but live in Columbus, and right now the Seville numbers are pretty low.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Thanks basscatt. There are a number of SLSs in my area as well which I will consider. Since these cars are 10 years past, I will not know what I'm missing in terms of suspension. and having driven a 98 Deville, I will not be expecting much fancy suspension magic. But I WILL miss that extra 25hp from the STS... haha
 
#26 ·
For what it's worth, I was in a position that I needed to replace a car for my daughter last summer. I stumbled on a nice '04 SLS with about 135K on it. I have NEVER bought a car with that kind of mileage on it. The car was in great condition with the exception of several minor cosmetic flaws, all of which I was able to take care of with a trip to the Men's Mall. So far it's been very reliable and well worth the price.
 

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#38 ·
The wood trim package for SLS consisted only of the wood trim on the steering wheel and the shift knob. No SLS has ever been available with wood all the way down the doors. If it was, somebody added it aftermarket. Gary did on his '01 SLS.

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Update, another dud. Even though it was only two owners, there was a plethora of DTC including misfire and torque converter failure. On to the next one!
With the Seville line, patience is of the essence. You know, here in NC they had a GORGEOUS 69k mile 2002 STS going for $6k. One owner. All records. If I didn't need a cheap car for college, I'd have another Seville in my driveway. They are some of the finest road cars ever built. I adored mine.
 
#31 ·
All '04 and not sure if all the '03 SLS had the appearance package. Actually the option was more and more common on the SLS the closer to '04 we are getting.

My STS has 187K and literally not one single issue, cracked something, missing something, aftermarket something (ok, light bulbs, floor mats, knuckle bushings, front sway bar links and mufflers are aftermarket, but only because OEM are no more, and not talking cheap crap or loud mufflers, I am talking direct replacement whisper quiet). I dare anybody with a 20K '04 to show me a better shape car. :)


This is a 1-week-old picture, not the very best I was actually testing the camera for glare (no pass), and yes I just had the car washed but only the windows were still wet.
 
#33 ·
...................I dare anybody with a 20K '04 to show me a better shape car. :)
Your post, Vasi -

You neglected to add that you have, over the years, literally jacked up the rear view mirror and run a new car under it :yup:

(This is the car he took on an 11,000 mile counterclockwise trip around the U.S. and Canada in three weeks without a hiccup.)
 
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