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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; it would be nice to pull pistons, clean ring grooves, maybe new rings? but than you need to install new ...
  1. #16
    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    it would be nice to pull pistons, clean ring grooves, maybe new rings? but than you need to install new rod bearings. and do not touch cylinder walls. than you can replace the oil manifold plate and reseal the block seam.

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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by N*Caddy View Post
    Many years ago I saw a French 1.2l, 4 cyl. engine (Renault) with removable sleeves, after around 60K the sleeves diameter was enlarged >1mm by the rings, basically now it was a 1.2x engine . And yeah...blue smoke.
    Back in the mid-50's I was an after-school parts runner for a Renault/Triumph/Citroen dealership in Wheaton, MD. The sheer number of cylinder sleeve failures in those rear-engined water-cooled Renaults was staggering. It was common - common - to have one drive into the service lane with water running out the little (1") tailpipe !!! (The sleeves were stepped at the top and bottom - copper O-rings were installed and the sleeves dropped into the block. Cylinder head torque held the whole thing together (sort of).)

    JHowdy, take the car to Northstar Performance - right in your back yard. They'll also look at the 32 cam follower buckets - any wear on those and it's replacement time. They have rather interesting pictures of some of the pre-2000 cam followers.

  3. #18
    JHowdy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by N*Caddy View Post
    If you are northeast of Detroit then you are 1h away from NorthStar Performance, just a short hop over the bridge.
    Northeast of Detroit yes, but the distance is some 4000 miles. Sorry for the confusion! Not too many repair shops here that even want to make the (infamous) Northstar HG job. None in my home town, found only two so far elsewhere in the whole country. I have now asked them for the NorthStar Performance option, but haven't got their answer yet. The repair shop I'm talking about has used Time-Sert inserts or some similar product.
    Attached Images

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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    I recently had my '02 repaired and can share my personal experience. Along with the head gaskets and inserts, I would go for resealing the bottom end while the motor is out (half-case seal and new oil manifold plate, oil pan seal, rear main seal). The oil pan gasket kit included a new oil sender/sensor, drain plug and oil filter housing o-rings which are all potential leak points. The labor and cost to address those areas will be far less while the engine is already on the bench. At 86k, mine had worn timing chain slippers/tensioners and a little chain wear. The additional cost on the new timing components at that point should be for the parts only. I went with a whole new timing set. Timing chains are cheap in comparison to the damage they cause when they fail

    The HG job should include a new "head set" which would include the valve stem seals. Worn valve stem seals can be the cause of some blue smoke at start up due to oil leaking down past them into the cylinders when the engine is shut off.

    A quart of oil in 2000 miles? WOW... I don't know if that even qualifies as burning oil. I agree with the other comments that at 95k you don't need rings or the bottom end touched other than a reseal and perhaps a ring soaking and cleaning.
    JHowdy likes this.

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    JHowdy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    Thank you markmnj for sharing your experience, great advice. I'll have to ask the repair shop if they can check those things as well. I'll have to ask them also if that "head set" is included, if not, ask for it!

  6. #21
    rodnok01's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    Since you have it out, check the heater pipes behind the engine, at a minimum clean and paint them. If they are have the pain the Deville pipes are it's a good time to look at them.
    That oil consumption is very good..

  7. #22
    JHowdy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    Well, the repair shop I've found says they use Big-Sert inserts with the original HG bolts, period. So I'll either have to take the second best or no repair at all, which is always an option with an old car. Lucky me, I've still got my bicycle and the summer is coming pretty soon.

  8. #23
    oldstuff is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    I used big-serts on my 97 and when I torqed the heads down two of them pulled. They are not as good as they say. You should look into Jakes studs if you want a sure thing. A little more money but worth it in the long run.
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by JHowdy View Post
    Well, the repair shop I've found says they use Big-Sert inserts with the original HG bolts, period. So I'll either have to take the second best or no repair at all, which is always an option with an old car. Lucky me, I've still got my bicycle and the summer is coming pretty soon.

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    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    IF a big sert pulls out of block, than block integrity/porosity is suspect. An insert should not fail in a good block. Yes there are a few shaky blocks out there. Using studs lessens chances of block failure issues since force is applied at nut on top of head surface. Now, 2nd point is, does shop want to reuse headbolts? That sounds like what OP is saying. He says, "original headbolts". You can use big serts and studs together. An even more convoluted repair.

  10. #25
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    If the inserts pulled, studs would have as well. See the "Root Cause" Sticky in the Northstar forum.

  11. #26
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    That's more or less true but how far into the aluminum does this condition always reach? I drilled out the holes in the head adjacent to the pulled bolts
    to 9/16ths and used two 9/16ths inch standard thread grade 8 bolts that I oiled and torqued the old fashioned way to 95 ft/lb. Just came back from a 1200 mile trip and no overheat.
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    If the inserts pulled, studs would have as well. See the "Root Cause" Sticky in the Northstar forum.

  12. #27
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldstuff View Post
    That's more or less true but how far into the aluminum does this condition always reach?
    BTSOM Dave. My guess would be it's a metallurgy problem with the late '90's engines and thus would be throughout the block.

  13. #28
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    Part of the '00 redesign were changes to the block casting process.

  14. #29
    oldstuff is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Thinking of a HG repair, what else would be recommended?

    I don't know but it seems to be isolated in the front bolts on both sides of the block. Any one I've had to do with has had the problem in the same area.
    Dave


    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    BTSOM Dave. My guess would be it's a metallurgy problem with the late '90's engines and thus would be throughout the block.

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