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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Eldorado Conversion in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I have dual 500 amp AC controllers, so 1000 amps. The battery pack is 48 300 AH lithium cells for ...
  1. #61
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    I have dual 500 amp AC controllers, so 1000 amps. The battery pack is 48 300 AH lithium cells for a nominal 153.6 volts. (3.2 volts per cell). At full charge, the pack should read 160 volts. The motor is actually a Siamese, which means 2 motors on one shaft which is why I have two controllers.

    If you were not so far away, I would offer you some Northstar parts to help your business. I have a bunch of gasoline related parts that I gutted out of this car...

  2. #62
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Theoretically (if my calculations are correct) you can develop just shy over 200HP equivalent (not considering friction lost, efficiency of the controllers and motor). Lets consider 80% efficiency for inverter, that's 160HP and then we have the friction lost...we are probably down to 120 HP and that's full blast. At moderated load we can hope ~40min down to dead flat, probably full load is less than 15 min.
    Top speed ideal transmission ratio should theoretically be ~90mph.
    Lithium batteries are far better than lead batteries sustaining continuous high current loads, much faster recovery times, but still you don't want do drain the battery fast or to dead flat (or anywhere near that). This means a 20-25 miles range.
    Am I close to the reality?
    For me it would be just enough for a daily round trip to the office...imagine <$10 for monthly transportation bill in electricity.
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  3. #63
    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
    97EldoCoupe is offline U.S. Patent #8,740,532 - www.studkit.com
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Vasi the last time I calculated my electric bill I was paying $0.175 per KWh in Ontario, with all charges combined and divided by the actual use. The BTU content of electricity and gasoline, I calculated gasoline to be a cheaper power source. The only problem is gas motors don't run anywhere near peak efficiency, electric is far more efficient. I don't think in Ontario it will make a lot of sense to drive electric vehicles. You would think with Niagara Falls and the Sir Adam Beck generating station we'd have near free electricity.....


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGrip™ Cylinder Head Stud Kit

  4. #64
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by N*Caddy View Post
    Theoretically (if my calculations are correct) you can develop just shy over 200HP equivalent (not considering friction lost, efficiency of the controllers and motor). Lets consider 80% efficiency for inverter, that's 160HP and then we have the friction lost...we are probably down to 120 HP and that's full blast. At moderated load we can hope ~40min down to dead flat, probably full load is less than 15 min.
    Top speed ideal transmission ratio should theoretically be ~90mph.
    Lithium batteries are far better than lead batteries sustaining continuous high current loads, much faster recovery times, but still you don't want do drain the battery fast or to dead flat (or anywhere near that). This means a 20-25 miles range.
    Am I close to the reality?
    For me it would be just enough for a daily round trip to the office...imagine <$10 for monthly transportation bill in electricity.
    It is nice to see somebody outside the EV community who has a grasp on electricity as hp. You are spot on with your HP calculation. 153.6 volts times 1000 amps equals 153600 watts, divided by 745 equals around 200 HP.

    Your range calculation could use a little help. Although the load of a car being driven varies because of terrain, driving style, wind, etc, EVs typically average 1/10 of their weight in watt hours per mile. A 2000 pound car will typically average 200 watt hours per mile, and in the case of this Eldorado, I calculate 4500 pounds for the completed build- so 450 watt hours per mile. The battery pack that I have for this rig is 48 lithium batteries that are 300 amp hours each. When this string is wired in series it makes a 153.6 volt 300 amp hour battery. Instead of multiplying that 153.6 by the 1000 amps of the motor controller, we multiply by the 300 amp hours of the battery pack to get 46,080 watt hours. this is what the "fuel tank" holds as stored energy. Unfortunately, only 80% of that 46,080 watt hours is available to use, or the lithium batteries will be harmed, so 36,864 watt hours is what is actually available to use. Since this rig will average 450 watt hours per mile, all we have to do is divide available fuel by the watt hours per mile to see how far this thing can go. 36,864 divided by 450 watt hours per mile equals 81.92 miles. If your commute is 80 miles or less, this rig is very economical since a full "tank" of fuel is only about $5.00. It is certainly not what you load up for a family road trip for the week end, but for a daily driver it is cheap to fuel and it is very convenient to just plug it in at the end of the day like you would for your cell phone.

    The largest batteries in this pic are the 300 AH lithium ion batteries for this Eldorado. The next smaller size is for another conversion that I am building right now as well. The two smaller sized lithium batteries are what I use for the 12 volt system that runs the wipers, lights, horn, etc. Four of the little batteries in series makes a nominal 13.8 volt battery that rests at 14.2 volts when fully charged that is 1/3 the weight of a lead battery.



    I salute the early EV guys that had to use lead acid for their main battery pack, because they were never going to get very far with those incredibly heavy battery packs. Lithium has only been available for a short time, but it is a game changer. I look forward to even better battery technology in the future, but at least the lead age is over.

    As for performance, HP is actually pretty trivial in an EV, and we enjoy having the full torque available through out the rpm range. When you look at a torque and HP graph for a gasoline engine, torque and HP both start at the lower left corner. With an electric motor, the HP starts at the lower left as well, but the torque line starts at the UPPER left and stays at the same point all the way through the rpm range. It is hard to explain the peppy feeling that you get in an EV, but first time drivers usually exit the EV after their first drive with the "EV grin" that we all know about in the EV community.
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Doesn't the powerglide and the Ford diff use quite a bit of that power? If there was a way of making it direct drive, or even have the motors inside the wheels themselves; that would become a lot more efficient in my opinion. But that would entail custom built motors.

    80 miles is quite a decent range. It would be nice to have two battery packs, one always charged in your garage, easy to change, if you had to make two drips in day.....

    I think I would tape record the rumble of a Northstar and play it over a loud speaker. I love the EV concept! It just needs the V8 growl

    I wish I had more time EVCaddy, I'd drop by and meet you. This project is awesome! I'd say cover the roof in photovoltaic panels, if that would improve the range any. Unfortunately they don't put out enough juice to even make a dent.


    Need parts for your Northstar Engine? www.northstarperformance.com

    Jake Wiebe, developer of the SureGrip™ Cylinder Head Stud Kit

  6. #66
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Glides are very efficient to use, rearend's geared properly won't be that big of drag and he could always re gear the glide if needed. A motor for each wheel gets tricky as computer would have to modify speed for corners or you'd have a locked rear end or horrible strain on the motors(expensive I bet and a lot harder to do). Now if the elec motor turned a hydraulic pump and those drove each wheel that's another story. That would be expensive also.

  7. #67
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by rodnok01 View Post
    Glides are very efficient to use, rearend's geared properly won't be that big of drag and he could always re gear the glide if needed. A motor for each wheel gets tricky as computer would have to modify speed for corners or you'd have a locked rear end or horrible strain on the motors(expensive I bet and a lot harder to do). Now if the elec motor turned a hydraulic pump and those drove each wheel that's another story. That would be expensive also.
    Yea, the 3.whatever ratio that is in that 8.8 diff won't cut it. I will probably leave those gears in there for some initial test drives, but I calculate a 4.10 ratio to get the 100 mph top speed at 5000 rpms from the motor. 5000 rpms is where the torque falls off, and it is also where mother nature limits what is possible.

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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    The thing with the motors to each wheel is the unsprung weight. That is a very bad thing even though the advantages are numerous.
    With average computing power you can have the perfect 4x4 vehicle, the perfect "limited slip differential" (behavior), I mean think about the grip you can get from it.
    Electric motors are perfect, instant torque, instant response, if we only had better battery technology...
    Today my weekly gas bills cam up to $98 so…yeah I would like an electric second Cadillac.


    As for the range I was really close, I am not sure for what reason I understood you have ~14000W "electric tank".

  9. #69
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    I wasn't going to say anything, but someone already made an electric SLS. And it's all wheel drive with inboard mounted motors.

    .....Ok, ok, so TECHNICALLY it's a Mercedes SLS, not a Cadillac.

    But is sure is fast, and pretty to look at without its body on:




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    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    I saw that and I must admit I like the MB electric design. Note how the motors are mounted low and the output shaft is above, it is not a efficient as if it was direct drive but you get really low center of gravitation. I saw (I believe it was the Detroit AutoShow) few years back a cut out of their 6 speed transmission having a (pretty small though) electric motor/generator integrated on the input shaft.
    I don't understand why this electric boost/regenerative brake (milled hybrid) doesn't get much popular. Basically have a small and light battery pack to store the energy from braking and use it for short bursts to add 10HP-20HP to the engine or use it in the gaps between gear changes. Is more of a performance feature than an economy thing. I know it cost extra to have some small electric motor/generator integrated in the transmission, the controls and the batteries, I know it adds some weight too but don't go nuts on storage capacity. And you don’t need a alternator anymore

  11. #71
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    OK, I re thought the drive shaft thing, and went down to my local drive shaft shop and talked to them. A single u joint will only work if the alignment is set at zero and is near perfect. I picked up this frame for a double cardon joint, as well as the second u joint to make the drive shaft shown below. Alignment is still very important since this is not actually a double cardon joint, but this set up will allow a full degree of flex as long as the two shafts are properly centered on each other. This added 3 inches to the total length.

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  12. #72
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    All four flanges are welded and bolted together. Gussets have been added for a little more support on the middle two where they join the suspension cradle. That coupler is a temporary rigid coupler made out of an old powerglide yoke that has been sawed in half and connected to the old flange style yoke of the differential with a couple pieces of tubing that are pressed together. This temporary solid coupler will stay in place until everything is fabbed and the complete set up with both cradles has been mounted. once all that is done, the double u joint will replace the solid one. (fab jig)


  13. #73
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Here are the mounts for the powerglide. This first mount is the forward mount, viewed from the bottom. Everything is tacked in place, ready to weld. If you look closely, you can see the rubber layer.



    Here is the top view of the same forward mount.



    Here is the rear mount, bottom view



    And of course the top view of the same mount.



  14. #74
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion


  15. #75
    oldstuff is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    That lashup will transmit any vibration directly to the framework of the car and thereby to the body. You need another strip of rubber and another plate under the mount plate.
    Any metal to metal contact can set up an annoying resonance. Mounts are rubber bonded to rubber on both sides so there is no through bolt. For a home made lash up like this you should drill the bolt holes very large and put a rubber washer around the bolts where they pass through the mount plate.
    Dave

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