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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Eldorado Conversion in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by EVcaddy As for motor and powerglide placement, I have my eyes on the space where the gas ...
  1. #16
    basscatt's Avatar
    basscatt is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by EVcaddy View Post
    As for motor and powerglide placement, I have my eyes on the space where the gas tank used to be, and then the motor will fit in the rear of the tunnel with the rear passengers losing a little bit of foot room for a larger tunnel.

    Here is the Lincoln Mark 8 independent rear suspension that I pulled at pick n pull out of a '97.



    It looks a lot different from this one from the Eldorado



    Much work to be done here. This is not exactly a bolt n ride modification.



    ----------

    Here is a link to another conversion that I did a little while back. This is the build thread that shows the entire build from when it was a crap bucket like this Eldorado is now, all the way through to pictures at the car show. You can see the instrumentation that will be used in this Eldorado in that ride, as well as a number of other concepts that I will be using in this build.

    http://geometroforum.com/topic/5005471/1/?x=90#new
    --------------------------
    how much did the project cost -

    what is the effective range -

  2. #17
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    The project is just getting started at this point, but pick n pull let the Eldorado go for $1000, and the Mark 8 suspension was around $200. Were you inquiring about the cost of the Eldorado, or the one in the link that I left for my other completed build?

    http://geometroforum.com/topic/5005471/1/?x=90#new

    ----------

    There is something very different about the value of a conversion vs the value of a new production EV that you buy at your local auto mall. The production EV is very proprietary and when the usable service life of the battery is up, the cost of the replacement battery pack is higher than the value of the car so it is essentially totaled. None of its parts are worth anything to anybody. With a conversion, there is the value of the car which probably is not worth much, and then there is the value of the assets inside of it. These components are easily transferred to another EV conversion or even liquidated to somebody else who might like them. The components are not very proprietary at all, so if you get a new job further from home you can get a faster battery charger or a bigger battery pack and then put your old components in another vehicle or sell them. The conversion will hold way more value than a production model will.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by basscatt View Post
    pardon my skepticism -

    this is usually the type of post we see by a 16 year old - in shop class - for EXTRA CREDIT -

    good luck -
    Your skepticism shows me that you have a solid grasp on what people realistically do in this world. I have not searched this forum to verify, but I suspect that there have not been a lot of people that have come here with a project like this one. I have also seen a lot of people come to forums talking about what they are "going to do", but never really do. Basscat, I may prove to be another one of those guys, but stay tuned. This build will not happen overnight, but I will keep posting progress here. In the meantime, here is another completed build that I did. Both the build below, and the other one that I referenced took about a year each, but this will probably happen much quicker.

    http://geometroforum.com/topic/4902390/1/?x=90#new

  3. #18
    BlueAngel#07's Avatar
    BlueAngel#07 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    You have the best 16 year old skill set I have ever seen, lol

    Just wondering what you do with them once built? Are you selling them?

    Can't help but wonder what kind of power consumption (good or bad) you will get and or battery life with a vehicle that heavy? More or bigger batteries? Or will it shorten drive time?

  4. #19
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueAngel#07 View Post
    You have the best 16 year old skill set I have ever seen, lol

    Just wondering what you do with them once built? Are you selling them?

    Can't help but wonder what kind of power consumption (good or bad) you will get and or battery life with a vehicle that heavy? More or bigger batteries? Or will it shorten drive time?
    Although not a perfect formula, it is pretty accurate to say that the consumption of power for EVs, in watt hours per mile, is 10% of the weight of the vehicle. Watt hours is what we use for fuel units instead of gallons. My estimated weight for the completed build is 4500 pounds, so 10% of that is 450 watt hours per mile. When you look at your monthly electric bill, you can see how much your electric company charges per kwh, typically around 15 cents per kwh.
    This rig will hold 46 kwh, but only 36 kwh of it is usable. At 15 cents per kwh, it will cost 5 bucks to fill up the tank from completely empty to topped off. 36 kwh is really 36,000 watt hours when you take out the "kilo" part, so 36,000 watt hours full tank divided by an average consumption of 450 watt hours per mile equals an 80 mile range. If you were to put more batteries in it, the weight would go up and the vehicle would use up more watt hours per mile. more batteries and more weight equal more range, but there will be diminishing returns. Fewer batteries would be more efficient, but shorter range. Since very few people drive more than about 50 miles per day, an 80 mile range seems pretty nice. When you get home, you just plug it in and in the morning you have a full tank again. If you are taking a family vacation road trip, park your EV and drive the Suburban.

  5. #20
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Very interesting. First I said "ah it's going to be another I want a rwd northstar... hybrid cadillac..." but now I see you aren't joking around. I can see the point in the Metros, but Eldorados shine the best when it's on a long distance road trip. Still looks very promising though.

    One question, how do you go with the battery temperature management?

  6. #21
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by maeng9981 View Post

    One question, how do you go with the battery temperature management?
    I use the Orion battery management system. It comes with a thermistor harness so that you can spread thermistors through out the battery pack, and it has a variable programmable fan control in it. It also has a harness with a lead going to each battery and a bunch of other inputs and outputs just like a traditional ECM does as well as two CANBUS outputs. I wire OBD 2 connectors onto the canbus leads so that the Orion works like a traditional ecm, but with two OBD 2 ports instead of the single one that we are accustomed to seeing under our dash. I just plug in a wifi obd 2 adapter to one, and a bluetooth obd 2 adapter to the other to be able to broadcast all of the PID streams to my Droid tablet or Ipad, same as you would do for whatever Cadillac you drive. Most apps that you can use as scanners for your traditional Cadillac have options to add custom PIDs to them, and they have all the traditional ones like O2 sensors, fuel trim etc. I enter custom PIDs specific to EVs and am able to build nice instrumentation screens for my mobile devices, and view them as I drive. The traditional instrument clusters are meaningless for an EV, so I just fabricate a dock for tablets or Ipads and use it for my instrument cluster.

    Here is a dock that I fabbed for one of my conversions.





    Here is what it looks like driving down the road. You can touch the screenshot button at any time and it puts that moment in your photo gallery which is where this image came from. You can have this same screen and app on your traditional gas powered Cadillac as well with traditional gauges like oil pressure, temp, etc. I use the same tablet in the 03 gas Eldorado as well instead of messing with the on board diagnostics in the car.


  7. #22
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    I looked at that metro build....... incredible work and paint job.

  8. #23
    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    how do you get hyd pressure for steering? or vacuum assist for braking?

  9. #24
    rodnok01's Avatar
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    He uses vac pump and resevoir for braking and I bet the Metro has manual steering. If not could fit an elect pump for it I bet.

  10. #25
    70eldo's Avatar
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by stoveguyy View Post
    how do you get hyd pressure for steering? or vacuum assist for braking?
    I understood from his Metro-conversion, that the regenerative braking on the electric motor will make power brakes unnecessary. And he built in an electrical vacuum pump with a vacuum cannister for vacuum assist.

    I have seen ev conversions on classic cars as well. Very interesting!

  11. #26
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by stoveguyy View Post
    how do you get hyd pressure for steering? or vacuum assist for braking?
    This will be my first conversion with power steering since my earlier ones were manual. The methods available are the electric pump, the stock pump driven off of either the drive motor or an accessory motor, or electric column. I am planning to use an electric column from a scion, and then adapt it to a manual rack. The control box for the scion column will need to be hacked to be able to get it to work right and be adjustable for the right feel in an Eldorado.

    The brakes are the easy part. A simple vacuum pump and reservoir easily simulate the vacuum of a Northstsr. A vacuum pressure switch turns the vacuum pump on and off just like an air compressor in your garage. The tricky part is having the pump not make a lot of noise. The quieter pumps cost more, and they need to be mounted on little rubber feet to stop the noise from vibrating through the chassis.

    ----------

    Now to get the Lincoln cradle into the Eldorado. The floor is nowhere near the right shape for this thing to bolt in, so it will need a new floor. This pic shows what it looks like with the stuff not needed removed. This is looking straight up from the ground.



    Here is a different view. I have a career as a collision tech behind me, so I probably feel more comfortable with this arrangement than an average backyard mechanic...



    Here it is tacked into place where it needs to be with some scrap metal. This puts the cradle mount points where they need to be so that the mount points on the car can be fabbed to the cradle.


  12. #27
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    OK, lots to do in the trunk.



    Since the cradle encroaches into the trunk space a little, it is probably reasonable to build frame rails that encroach as well. I am contemplating a row of lithium cells that would deep into the trunk all the way against the back of the seat, so this may be a nice support for those lithium cells. These frame rails will still need a bunch of sheet metal work to properly integrate them with the unibody structure, but for now we will start with some stout frame rails. 3x3 x 1/8 box tubing fits nicely inside of the GM frame rails.



    My local metal supplier had stacks of these circles in a variety of thicknesses and diameters. I am using 4" diameter for the chassis where the cradle bolts in, and 6" diameter for the upper coil spring perches.



    Here is one of the 4" disks in place for a cradle mount. This one is the passenger side rear mount (right rear) This is the bottom view of the same fabbed frame rail pictured above.


  13. #28
    70eldo's Avatar
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    May I ask why you didn't stick to the FWD of the Eldorado, just like you did FWD on the Metro?

    (plus I am amazed there is actually a Geo Metro forum and community!)

  14. #29
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by 70eldo View Post
    May I ask why you didn't stick to the FWD of the Eldorado, just like you did FWD on the Metro?

    (plus I am amazed there is actually a Geo Metro forum and community!)
    I am glad you asked. That's why I enjoy forums so much. The design of this chassis is designed around that power glide transmission. At 90 lbs and 15 inches long, it also is a very strong and reputable transmission. The manual valve body will allow brake regen, but I don't have a clutch pedal or 5 speed pattern shifter to detract from the eloquence of a Cadillac. There is also no black box or computer associated with this transmission. It works great with no torque converter. It's kind of an icon in the automotive world, it's been around as long as Eldorados have. The two speeds also match the performance of the electric motor very well too. The other problem that I had when looking at front wheel drive is that the electric motor is actually a siamese unit, which is two motors built onto a single shaft, so it is longer than most motors.

    On the building end of things, utilizing the space where the gas tank and exhaust used to be for a motor and transmission cradle will open up the entire engine compartment for whatever. If I get lucky when I put this thing on the 4 wheel racing scales and start placing batteries in proposed locations, I may be able to pull off a single battery pack, built to the shape of the Northstar, and be able to lower it in with a cherry picker into the Northstar mounts. (fingers crossed)
    70eldo and 97EldoCoupe like this.

  15. #30
    EVcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Eldorado Conversion

    Got a little more done on this one today. Here are the frame rails with the mounts for the suspension cradle, and with coil spring perches installed.



    Here the rails are back in the car, and some cross bracing tacked in place.



    Now there is no turning back. The rails are in to stay.

    70eldo likes this.

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