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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by mtflight Thank you for that reply--it was very interesting! Now for the million dollar question: at what ...
  1. #91
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    Quote Originally Posted by mtflight View Post
    Thank you for that reply--it was very interesting! Now for the million dollar question: at what point is it better to shut off the car while waiting, than it is to remain idling?

    I am sure there is a formula with variables such as operating temperature or lower (at lower temperatures there is more gas spent to warm up the engine probably in part due to emissions concerns to "light up the cat"). But assuming operating temperature has been reached, and say you're at a drive through or at a long light at an intersection where you can get a fair warning... what is that magic number where it makes more sense to shut off the engine and restart it, much like a hybrid?
    ---------------------------
    what is that magic number
    where it makes more sense to shut off the engine and restart it

    strictly from a gasoline-use point of view -
    3 minutes and 45 seconds -

    HOWEVER - considering the actual cost of
    the additional wear and tear of the using the starter -
    and the additional strain on the alternator and battery -

    10 minutes - or longer - would be closer to the "break-even" time -

  2. #92
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    That's invaluable information right there!

  3. #93
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    Quote Originally Posted by basscatt View Post
    ---------------------------
    what is that magic number
    where it makes more sense to shut off the engine and restart it

    strictly from a gasoline-use point of view -
    3 minutes and 45 seconds -

    HOWEVER - considering the actual cost of
    the additional wear and tear of the using the starter -
    and the additional strain on the alternator and battery -

    10 minutes - or longer - would be closer to the "break-even" time -
    Well thank you for that, although I admit I am disappointed it it being so long :-( so the car uses 3.75 minutes' worth of fuel to start up? That sucks gas lol.

    Is this a calculation for the N*?

  4. #94
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    so the car uses 3.75 minutes' worth of fuel to start up?
    That just doesn't sound right.

    How did you come up with these numbers Bass?

  5. #95
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    I would imagine that a port or DI fuel injected engine (as opposed to carbureted) would not require more fuel to hot start - as soon as the key is turned to start the engine rolls, the ECM/PCM sends commands based on sensor inputs and injectors operate - unless the engine was cold and enrichment factored in there, a hot start is simply a matter of turning on the engine, so to speak. No gas pedal pumping, no choke, no rich start.

    Catch22 would get you, anyway. Shut down at 3:45 and the traffic will begin moving again at 4:00.

    FWIW, cool/cold weather, slow traffic, stop & go are the gas mileage main factors - and, yes, idle time figures in there, too - but the mileage difference you would notice from an engine start-stop-start-stop-start regimen would be inconsequential.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    That just doesn't sound right. How did you come up with these numbers Bass?
    SWAG - Scientific Wild Ass Guess

  6. #96
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    A true calculation is possible by determining the fuel flow at idle, and knowing how much fuel is metered for a hot start. Unlike Sub, I reset my MPG AVG every fuel fill. The cold start enrichment noticeably lowers the average. I wonder if a block heater would help with this issue (sort of an "enrichment hybrid")? Mind you it's not that cold most of the year here in North Texas (17 this morning though), but the engine runs rich when below operating temperature. I have a 99 pre AIR.

  7. #97
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    The money you spend on a Northstar block heater setup will pay for a LOT of gas used during the cold start/idling in traffic sequences.

    .......... if you can find the Calrod setup for these engines. Maybe GMPartsGiant.

    .......... and then you pay for the electricity to run a couple of 100 Watt heaters.

    TANSTAAFL

  8. #98
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    The money you spend on a Northstar block heater setup will pay for a LOT of gas used during the cold start/idling in traffic sequences.

    .......... if you can find the Calrod setup for these engines. Maybe GMPartsGiant.

    .......... and then you pay for the electricity to run a couple of 100 Watt heaters.

    TANSTAAFL
    Agreed. It was a hypothetical question. Possibly more oriented toward preservation and emissions than monetary.

  9. #99
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    My 97 etc has a block heater. Never used it. Think I should try it seeing as its 2° here in north Carolina?

  10. #100
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems

    Not to belabor the point, but modern cars - with their PCM controlled engines, sensors, cats, current gasoline and lube oil types - put out less emissions and incur less wear during cold starts than our engines of the 60's and 70's did - fully warmed up.

    While no engine gets inner city fuel mileage equivalent to steady state cruise mileage, what they DO get is remarkable. I drove a 1965 Chevelle Malibu SS 327c.i./350hp 4-speed for years - It NEVER got more than 15 mpg open highway - and that was with a 3.31 rear end - the optional 3.73 was horrible. A 1972 Volvo station wagon we had for a people mover - 4 cylinder, 4-speed, fuel injected - NEVER got over 16 mpg highway. The fact that our 3.71 300 hp STS will get ~25 mpg highway is remarkable, given the car and weight. Efficiency and calibrations have come a long way in 50 years.
    orconn likes this.

  11. #101
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    Quote Originally Posted by kaceyseldo View Post
    My 97 etc has a block heater. Never used it. Think I should try it seeing as its 2° here in north Carolina?
    Not necessary. Those of us on the frozen tundra have no problem starting at -10, -15 or lower.

  12. #102
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    I've always heard if plan idling longer than three mnutes to shut it off. But haven't a clue who came up with that time duration.

  13. #103
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    Once again I have to post I feel like sometimes when accelerating from a stop, 1st gear winds out too long. I'm driving normally and not accelerating fast. Does anyone have the shift points and speed for the tranny( it's the 4l80e? Correct) and on my car there is a slider for the headlights? What happens when you put it halfway? Cause I always put it to the far right. Also I feel like my car isn't performing as it should. When I press the pedal all the way, it doesn't downshift, just slowly starts reving, it does hesitate when shifting to reverse, but it still works, does this mean my trannys going to give out soon? And anyone know what happens if I didnt use the oem spark plugs(ac Delco) I used ngk( best one). Planning on doing a oil change in a couple tanks( almost hit 1k after rebuild)

  14. #104
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    There are no set shift points, it all depends on engine load, speed, accelerator input, RPM... When is it shifting to 2nd during normal acceleration?

    What does the transmission fluid look/smell like? Is it at the correct level?

    The slider adjusts how long the lights stay on after you turn the key to the off position (basically, when you get out of the car at night)... Owners Manual.

    Northstars tend to foul anything other than the correct, AC Delco plugs. If you start having a rough idle/misfire codes, that's likely why.

  15. #105
    Mafiaman111 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Crappy day with many problems - 1998 ESC

    Yeah, what MoistCabbage said, plugs that are not AC Delco will not last long. I currently have Denso Platinum TT spark plugs in my caddy and 20K later there not looking to good and im starting to get a rough idle

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