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2001 STS - Hopeful turned to Hopeless

9K views 72 replies 20 participants last post by  DStewart 
#1 · (Edited)
Bought a beautiful 2001 STS last weekend. Pearl white metallic with all the power goodies. Moon roof, heated seats, Bose stereo with 6 disk changer, etc. Can't think of an option it doesn't have. The body is nearly perfect. Not a single door ding and the interior is pretty good considering the age. Drove the car with the knowledge it had some transmission issues. It was on the weekend so taking it to a mechanic was not possible but I figured for $900 it might be worth the risk. Well..... maybe not. My mechanic looked it over and tells me he cant with good conscious recommend that I move forward with the repairs. He was of the opinion that these models are a piece of junk and that it would just be a money pit. Wife is super bummed as it would have been her car.

My dilemma now is to sell it as a mechanics special or try to part it out. I live in a suburban neighborhood so I cant just put it in the yard while I sell parts off of it. I suppose I could put it in the garage but....

I would really like to get my money back out of it which now is about $1,200 with tax and license and the cost to buy a new battery and have the mechanic take a look. So here's my question. Which way is the best? Is there a sufficient market for parting it out or is it better to sell whole? The junk yard offered $400 sight unseen but the wheels alone are worth that much. Would really like to get some feedback here to see what you think. If I could fix it for 3 to 4 grand I would but I'm not a mechanic so I'm at their mercy and who knows how much it would actually cost. Surely more than book. Mechanic wasn't confident that the repairs would even be enough as there are just so many issues with these cars. He said that the Northstar engines are junk as are the transmissions that go with them.

So tell me what you think. Part it out or sell it whole?
 
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#3 ·
Moved to Seville.

Read the stickys here ^^^ and in Engines, Northstar Performance. Suppose you DO wind up putting $5,000 in mechanical repairs into the car - Where do you get another car like the STS for $5,000 ?? BUT, make no mistake: A 2001 STS was an expensive car to buy new and it will be an expensive car to maintain in original condition now.

Explain the "transmission issue".

Where are you ? Several CF members are - or know of - reliable, relatively inexpensive repair shops that work on these complicated cars.

A set of chrome round spoke STS 16" wheels in decent condition is "worth" $200 - $350.
 
#7 ·
Symptoms. When switching between park and drive you feel a fairly significant slam and also when going from park to reverse. Shifts just fine once you are in drive. The drive varies. Sometimes it drives just fine, other times you can floor it and it's all you can do to get to 30mph. Mechanic thinks it is a plugged up catalytic converter. It is throwing all kinds of codes. P0137 - 025 circuit low B1 S2, P0151 - 025 circuit low B2 S1, P0154 - 025 circuit no activity Bank 2 S1, P0300 - Random Cyl misfire, P0741 Torque converter clutch circuit / stuck or off, P0742 - Torque converter clutch circuit stuck on, P0501 - same. In addition to these codes there are leaks at the timing cover, valve cover, side pan of trans, and power steering hose. The exhaust manifold has a leak at the front of the engine, front engine mount showing signs of cracking, same with trans mount. Radiator needs replacing too.

So it's a fairly big list and pretty much points to a new engine or rebuild and same with transmission. He also mentioned the need to drill out and re-thread something due to a common problem with the bolts that pull out of the engine somewhere.

I truly would put some money into this car (within reason) if I thought I would end up with a nice car but my pockets are a bit shallow these days and gambling is not my thing. Plus, I'm pretty sure that a mechanic couldn't or wouldn't give me a firm number for a cost to repair.

BTW, I am in SE Washington State
 
#8 ·
There has to be a reason that it was sold for $900 when it was originally closer to $50K, even though yes it's 12 years old. There's always a reason someone is selling in that situation so cheaply, most likely because they knew what needed to be done and pretty much gave up. I think that was the case in my 2003 STS. I've put mega bucks into fixing it up and although for the most part it's still riding great, there is a new problem every day I turn the key in the ignition. Most recent is fuel tank sensor.
 
#12 ·
Transmission issue sounds like a broken motor mount to me. Very common on Seville/Deville cars from that era. Lots of clunking there can also cause more issues if not fixed. TCC solenoid requires dropping cradle to replace. $50 part buried $2k in the transmission. Few of the guys here know of great shops that specialize in Northstar engines.
 
#14 ·
I'm almost useless when it comes to working on today's modern cars so hiring a pro is my only option. I'm an accountant not a mechanic, (not sure why but that made me laugh) Guess it made me think of Bones. I digress. Looking on-line at crate engines I find them at 4,000 to 7,000. If a transmission is 2,000 to 3,000 and a couple more grand for fixing those hidden things I see a price tag of 8-12. Way more than I want to spend. This whole project started because we need to replace one of our cars that is on its last legs and certainly not worth putting $ into. I have owned a Cadillac in the past and loved it. Oh how nice it would be to be driving one again.
 
#16 ·
0501 is speed sensor range/performance. a vss issue results in trans not shifting out of 1st. i had broken wire on my vss wire. due to my poor connector. but you say trans has issues going from park to drive which occurs when car is not moving. my car had no issue going into gear. but that is some info for someone who might crawl under car and poke around. which sounds like something you prefer not to do. is your issue a bad vss sensor only? dont know. tcc code and tcc solenoid is another issue. would be great if changing tcc solenoid would fix trans. but that is a 1000 repair at a shop since it is hard to reach and most trans shops prefer to rebuild trans.
 
#17 ·
slow down - take a deep breath - and start from the beginning -
-----------
how many miles on this car -
---------------
pull your own codes - it is really easy -
and will only take a few minutes -

go here and read the ENTIRE post -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...ncluding-1985/138257-how-pull-codes-dtcs.html

if you have any codes - post them here -
ALONG WITH THEIR DEFINITIONS -
---------------

When switching between park and drive you feel a fairly significant slam
and also when going from park to reverse.

like some of the others have said -
that is probably a broken front motor mount -
a fairly common problem -

--------------

we can get into any other codes you have -
once you check them for yourself -
---------------

FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE THE CAR TO -

that "mechanic" you took it to IS NOT A MECHANIC -
he is a "PARTS-CHANGER" - at best -
and is simply AFRAID of working on something he has never worked on before -

and there is probably a good reason Cadillac owners do NOT take their cars to him -
 
#18 · (Edited)
Hmmmm. Just drove it home from the shop and it drove like a dream. No clunking or slamming when shifting into reverse or drive and it idled just fine from the moment I turned the key. It actually started and drove like a normal car. When I got home I started and restarted several times just to see what would happen and it was perfect every time. Went forward and backward and each time it shifted as it should with no noise or issues. Can these type of issues be intermittent? Seems to me if there is a bad transmission/engine that it would behave the same way each time.

Just read some more of your posts. Going to go get some of these codes from the car myself. There are 155,000 miles on the car.
 
#61 ·
Yea Meyers Auto is a really good shop

Sent from AutoGuide.com App
$450 to replace a water pump on a '64 Impala! The pump would run about $40, $20 for 2 gallons of Anti Freeze and could be replaced in less than an hour.

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I beleive I would take it to a different mechanic. These cars are really nice to drive but I would have to think twice before dumping a bunch of money into it. Like an earlier post these cars are $45-50 new and although mine is a '97 ETC and have owned it since '98 with only 64k miles and always garaged and as nice as it was new I'd be lucky to get $6k out of it.

Too bad you're way out west, I'd love to get ahold of a set of Elorado wheels
 
#22 ·
I checked out the codes. Listed below are the PCM codes but there were also codes under DDM, PPC, IRC, RSS, SDM, VTD and RFI. Current codes listed under PCM are P0137, P0151, and P0741 all others are listed as history which means that they have showed up in the last 50 ignition cycles.

Here's what I found under PCM.
P0137 Circuit low voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2
P0151 Circuit low voltage Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0154 Circuit insufficient Activity Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0300 Engine Misfire Detected
P0463 Fuel level sensor circuit high voltage
P0741 TCC System stuck off
P0742 TCC System stuck on
U1040 Loss of Class 2 Communications with ABS
P1617 Engine Oil Level Switch Circuit
P1571 Traction Control Torque Request Circuit
P1106 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Intermittent High Voltage
 
#37 ·
I checked out the codes. Listed below are the PCM codes but there were also codes under DDM, PPC, IRC, RSS, SDM, VTD and RFI. Current codes listed under PCM are P0137, P0151, and P0741 all others are listed as history which means that they have showed up in the last 50 ignition cycles.

Here's what I found under PCM.
P0137 Circuit low voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2
P0151 Circuit low voltage Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0154 Circuit insufficient Activity Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0300 Engine Misfire Detected
P0463 Fuel level sensor circuit high voltage
P0741 TCC System stuck off
P0742 TCC System stuck on
U1040 Loss of Class 2 Communications with ABS
P1617 Engine Oil Level Switch Circuit
P1571 Traction Control Torque Request Circuit
P1106 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Intermittent High Voltage
Low/high voltage - stuck off/on - drives badly/drives great ... just guessing but I would have the electrical system checked, harness damage/bad grounds, stuff like that. Then the battery/drivebelt/alternator and then the PCM.

DJSG3
 
#24 ·
Did you say you we were putting in plugs tomorrow? :) I had a 97 Deville and I remember the back plugs being almost impossible to remove but replacing those is probably needed anyway. Seriously thinking about getting it into Meyers for a second look. Not sure if should try driving it there or have it towed in. Hate to spend more $ if it turns out with the same recommendation but I have used them before in the past and they have been good to me.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Not that weird at all...the actual filter (not the prescreen things in the pan) for the trans is buried IN the trans (stupid ass design by GM)..doesn't build the pressure at first (because it's dirty), and then once it does, can't release it (because it's dirty)..had the same codes come and go on mine (with roughly the same mileage) until I changed the filter in the trans.

Of course, for $15 I changed the TCC switch with it, but I'm sure the filter was the issue...it was dark brown and heavy...

The other thing is, if that has been doing that for a loooong time (wouldn't know as you just picked it up), you run the risk of destroying the torque convertor...leading to a host of other issues...

Plugs on that car aren't that bad once you've done them a coupla' times...

A year ago I'd spent $4400 IN PARTS to update the car (did the work myself), and am now pulling the engine (because of the head gasket thing mentioned earlier) and looking at a possible trans rebuild...all tolled I will probably be spending $8000 (including the $4400)...:ill:

A friend of mine (a mechanic) says I'm foolish to spend that much money on a car that's not worth it. I disagree. I paid $8500 for the car 5 years ago with 61,810 miles on it...I put roughly 96,000 on it in those 5 years and spent ONLY $700 in repairs to it (besides tires and oil changes). :yup:

At 158,000 I ripped it down and replaced things that weren't necessarily broken yet, like alternator and rack and pinion, upgraded the braking system to dual piston calipers with slotted and drilled rotors, and a host of other things in the suspension system. And while I spent $4400, I probably only needed to spend half that...but that's just parts and no labor :hide:

Now, at 175,000 miles, I'm putting a new(ish) engine in it and looking at the trans rebuild. With that, the car should go at least another 175,000 or more...

The point of all of this is that my friend the mechanic was only looking at it from the resale side of the equation...I'm not looking to sell it...why should I? The car is beautiful and in real good condition...you could EASILY spend $2000-$3000 on some other used car and STILL have problems and issues with it...

If you only picked it up for $900, you are at a real good starting point. If you put another $4000 in it, like Sub said, you've got a damn nice car for $5000...
 
#28 ·
Honestly Stewart dont feel bad as last year I paid 2000 for my 1999 sts in fair condition (work in progress) not knowing the headgaskets were fried :( . I probably have roughly 2-3 grand in the car not including the price of the car. I have had almost zero issues with mine after engine installation besides a measly misfire that was caused by a faulty fuel injector wire. Its daily driven and get 20mpg roughly :0. When I first got it everyone told me dont do it but like any car, keep up the maintenance and it will treat you well. Make sure you read the technical archives on the northstar engine. This site will become your best friend if you choose to "invest" into your sts. Happy motoring
P.S. these guys are right, theres almost nothing in the class with these cars (99-04,sevilles and dts') as far as price; I also contribute that to my love for this car.
 
#29 ·
It amazes me that the engineers behind these engine/transmission designs don't take into consideration that the car will eventually need to be serviced. Does GM actually not take this into account? Even if they think it will last 100K before major service it still will need service. I realize this helps them sell a new car to the person who's car is approaching that mark but the next person who buys that car used is facing some big bills to keep this car running. Who would even think of burying this filter so far into the transmission? Ugh.
 
#30 ·
I must say I am feeling encouraged. I have only driven it probably 7 miles since I bought it. Drove it home, then to the shop and then back home. Your reasoning is the same as mine when I decided to take the chance to buy it in the first place. We had looked at several cars in the 2-3 thousand range and they were all junk. They all had something wrong with them and even the best one was nothing I really wanted. I do believe this car has potential and yes I will most likely put more into it than it's worth but if the work is done well I will have one heck of a car. So where do I post my request for pledges? I would only need 8,000 members to donate a dollar and we could all share in the satisfaction of keeping another beautiful Cadillac on the road. I am kidding of course. Hmmm. Yes I am kidding. Oh it must be time for bed. Good night all.
 
#31 ·
I must say I am feeling encouraged.
Good for you...and being an accountant, I think you see where I was going with that...

We had looked at several cars in the 2-3 thousand range and they were all junk.
Would have been half way to a new engine or a fully rebuilt tranny in the STS, lol..

So where do I post my request for pledges? I would only need 8,000 members to donate a dollar and we could all share in the satisfaction of keeping another beautiful Cadillac on the road. I am kidding of course. Hmmm. Yes I am kidding.
Get in line on that one, lol
 
#35 ·
That's my car. Not my ad though. This is the ad that started my adventure.

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I really appreciate that. I'm sure once I get started on this project I will be hitting this board pretty hard with questions and maybe even a request for a part or a lead to one anyway. Nice to know that there are people out there so willing to help. Same goes for you Vincent. If you need an extra hand don't hesitate to reach out.
 
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