Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause? - Page 2
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 30 of 30
Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I am not sure I understand you what exactly you grounded? Not sure about the OBDI cars but in a ...
  1. #16
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    I am not sure I understand you what exactly you grounded?

    Not sure about the OBDI cars but in a OBDII car the RFA is just a radio receiver that reads the remote and if the code is a match will communicate on the data line what remote and what button is pressed. This information is used by the PZM and other modules in the car (but for door locks let's stick with the PZM). If the unlock button is pressed the "RFA" tells the PZM: remote X door unlock. Then PZM then will ground the door unlock output. This will energize the coil of a relay (door locks relay) and that in turn will control a contact that will provide power to the actuator that locks/unlocks the doors.
    So if I read correctly, by grounding the actuator proves nothing, between that actuator and RFA there is a relay and a PZM.

    I know the OBDII cars (up to '97) still had the PZM overrides, the OBDI cars had far more controls than OBDII (like PCM overrides), so I would expect your car to have all kinds of PZM overrides (is just an educated guess). You can play with these.
    Please note modules RARELY fry, I mean is super slim chance for this to happen, sure with age capacitors dries out and so on, but still 99% of the time is a fuse or a corroded connector or a damaged wire.
    Like I said, locate the RFA (in the '96+ cars is behind the rear seat back rest, is the smallest module), should have 3 or 4 wires, 2 are power and 1or 2 are for data (not familiar with the OBDI cars but that's what I would expect to see).

  2. #17
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Hi N*Caddy. I found two sets of instructions on reprogramming a 93/94 Seville:

    1993 Cadillac Seville Key Fob Remote Programming Instructions
    Here are the programming instructions for a 1993 Cadillac Seville Key Fob Remote. If you need an extra Key Fob or Replacement Fob for any vehicle you might have visit us at Keylessentryremotefob.com You can also leave comments or suggestions at the bottom of this blog and if you like what we provide please forward on to your friends & family; people like you are our best advertising tool!


    LEASE NOTE: When you begin the programming sequence to sync your remote to your installed remote keyless entry (RKE) system, you MUST HAVE ALL OF YOUR REMOTES (Including PREVIOUSLY PROGRAMMED remote(s)) to be programmed with you at the time of programming…

    ALL PREVIOUSLY PROGRAMMED REMOTES WILL BE ERASED AT THIS TIME.

    (This is a safety feature which prevents anyone else from accessing your vehicle.)


    Transmitter Programming

    Note: Before starting this procedure, BOTH transmitters must be present.



    Reprogramming Transmitter

    1. Turn Ignition Switch to OFF.
    2. Jumper Assembly Line Diagnostic Link Connector (a.k.a. "ALDL connector" - located behind center
    instrument panel, below ashtray) terminal G (PPL/WHT) to terminal A (BLK/WHT). Door locks lock
    and unlock, and trunk release activates in approximately 2 seconds.
    3. Press any button on one transmitter. Door locks lock and unlock, and trunk release activates in
    approximately 2 seconds. The first transmitter is now programmed.
    4. Repeat step 3 using the other transmitter. If only one transmitter is being used, go to step 5.
    5. Disconnect jumper from ALDL connector.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X9lcwvG_nV...00/seville.png


    After procedure, check to see if both transmitters operate the door locks. Repeat programming procedure or replace transmitters as necessary.

    Second set of instructions talked about grounding at the single wire residing by the trunk lock mechanism:

    1994 Cadillac Deville Key Fob Remote Programming Instructions
    Here are the programming instructions for a 1994 Cadillac Deville Key Fob Remote. Don't forget to check our store if you need an extra Key Fob or Replacement Fob for any vehicle you might have. Keylessentryremotefob.com


    Ignition in on position....engine not started.

    Locate black wire coming from the trunk pull down assembly in trunk
    Ground this wire....locks will cycle lock and unlock within a few seconds to acknowledge programming mode

    Press the unlock button on remote 1 twice within 20 seconds
    Locks will cycle lock and unlock within a few seconds to acknowledge programming

    At this time press the unlock button on remote 2 twice within 20 seconds
    Locks will cycle again to acknowledge programming

    If you do not have 2 remotes use remote 1 two times.
    Both procedures must be followed or you may cause your remote system to become inoperable.

    This entire procedure needs to be started within 30 seconds of grounding wire or you will have to start all over.

    I am not sure which procedure to follow.

  3. #18
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Sorry for being dense but are you suggesting the Body Control Module(PZM) is at fault as opposed to the RFA? Since the grounding at the trunk latch does not initiate the door locks does this point more to the PZM than the RFA? I thought the RFA was the culprit since I have no other symptoms that a bad PZM would show.

  4. #19
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    You need the electrical diagram, there are HUGE differences between OBDI cars and OBDII (not because of the OBD, is just that when the protocol was changed in '96 the whole electrics of the car were redesigned – is just a coincidence).

    I would suggest you to find the electrical diagram and understand it first, or if you are not good with electric post it here and I or some other member can explain you what to do. Like I mentioned between that latch and the RFA should be a relay and the PZM. I am not sure what you are grounding to the latch but if is what I am thinking it is you are WAY OFF.
    Think about it, a relay has a coil and a power circuit. There is no electrical link between the 2 very separate circuits. No mater what you do on the power side of the relay will not affect ANYTHING on the control (coil) sode, so you can't diagnose the module controlling the relay by doing grounding or generally doing anything electrical on the power side of the relay.

    Let me put it this way, you get water from the city. The water line comes into your house and few taps later gets to your toilet tank. Right now the toilet doesn't flush, so you pour water in the toilet (not even in the tank) and diagnose everything works so must be the city at fault. See what I mean?

  5. #20
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    I am not good with electric. That is for sure. Pathetic I know.

    I thought that since the single dongle that hangs off the trunk mechanism is cited as being used to reprogram the remote in 94s then if it doesn't program a module must be bad. I don't think it is the PZM because everything else works well that are tied into the PZM. Last year I replaced the RAP module that controls the delayed power of the accessories and that fixed the issue. So I just figured the RFA module that hears from the remote is the culprit. The fuse to that also controls other things that are working fine so I don't think a fuse is bad. Was the RFA module the same piece in 1994 as in 1996? I figured it might be unchanged over the years.

  6. #21
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    In a '96+ car you have better luck fitting Honda parts than '95 and older Cadillac (Seriously!).
    The cars have NOTHING in common except the badge and external panels (especially electrics), even the structure of the car (the panels you don’t see) are different, the entire floor is different.


    Like I said, try finding an electrical diagram, can't diagnose anything without one.

  7. #22
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Does that mean an RFA module from a 96 won't fit a 94? There are some 96 RFA's on eBay just in case mine burned out.

    Where can I get a wiring diagram that will help diagnose?

  8. #23
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Not one single electrical component from a '96 or newer car will work with yours, all modules are different, all harnesses are different, routing is different, the general idea is kind of the same but that's about it. Do not look to anything newer than '95.

    They made big changes in '96, see the '92-'97 Seville as '92-'95 and '96-'97 (with '96 as a transition year).
    Let's hope a member with a '95 and older car will have the schematic for you, my documentation covers '97 and up vehicles.

  9. #24
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Thanks for this N*Caddy. In my rear of back seat trunk modules there is a Remote Keyless Entry Module Part No. 16193106. Is that the same thing as an RFA module?

  10. #25
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Yes!

  11. #26
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    So all the fuses and connex to that module are good.

    Could that mean the module is fried?

    There are several of these used modules on eBay for 1994/95 but each has slightly different part nos. Does that matter so long as they look the same?

  12. #27
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Have you actually tested the power to the module connector, how about data wire?
    Is easy to swap modules, all mechanics do so, but usually is for no reason and you end up paying for it.
    The module should be THE VERY LAST thing to suspect, once all wires, relays, connectors and fused are checked.

  13. #28
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    Okay so I should buy a circuit tester and touch the connection for the wires going into the Remote Keyless Entry Module? There are two connectors to the module a large one with several wires that snaps into several pins and a single silver plug that goes into a hole in the module. Never having done this I assume a tester involves a single touch on a connection with some readout on the tester dial???? Do I need a multimeter? If a multimeter is necessary what setting and what places to touch and do I look for current, voltage, continuity or resistance?

  14. #29
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    36
    Posts
    6,405

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    You need to know what is each of the wires and where is connected to. You also need to know what you are testing,
    continuity, voltage, short...
    You also need to make sure you are looking at the RFA not RIM (is not on the antenna bracket by any chance right)?


    Honestly, no diagram and no experience...better seek professional help (but not somebody working on Honda, find somebody who knows Cadillac electrics, ask for references).

  15. #30
    Classenigma is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1994 Seville STS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    94
    Thread Starter

    Re: Do keyless entry fobs stop working without any cause?

    I persisted with the grounding of the single reprogramming connector wire in the trunk clasp. The reprogramming finally kicked in after I made a good ground and stayed grounded until the fob got successfully reprogrammed.

    Thanks to all for your help.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting