5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ? - Page 3
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; If you use the proper oils for the engine in question, the addition of uncertain amounts of ANY additive is ...
  1. #31
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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    If you use the proper oils for the engine in question, the addition of uncertain amounts of ANY additive is the equivalent of playing roulette - you have no control over the outcome.

    Use an oil formulated for the engine in question and that's all it will require - and today's fleet and marine oils will run longer, cleaner, faster in your engine than that of 43 years ago.

    I build lots of Olds 455's and GM 454's from the early 70's - every one runs Pennzoil LongLife 15W-40 and has zero lube problems - both flat tappet and roller cammed. Know that I am partial to dumping in a quart of Joe Gibbs Driven HR-4 along with 7 quarts of LongLife in a marine engine oil change at 100+ hours - the equivalent of ~7,000 miles. My big engines run a Milodon 8 quart pan. The STS and trucks (all roller cammed) run a modern synthetic oil - 5W-30 in the car, 5W-20 in the trucks.

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    The main use of ZDDP is in anti-wear additives to lubricants such as greases, gear oils, and motor oils, which often contain less than 1% of this additive. It has been reported that zinc and phosphorus emissions may damage catalytic converters and standard formulations of lubricating oils for gasoline engines now have reduced amounts of the additive, though diesel engine oils remain at higher levels.[3] Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins. Roller camshafts are more commonly used to reduce camshaft lobe friction in modern engines. There are additives, such as STP(R) Oil Treatment, and some racing oils such as PurOl, Brad Penn and Valvoline VR-1, which are available in the retail market with the necessary amount of ZDDP for engines using increased valve spring pressures. The same ZDDP compounds serve also as corrosion inhibitors and antioxidants.

    Source: Wikipedia

    As mentioned above, there are several ZDDP additives that you can by, ZDDPLUS being one, but be advised, this is one of those cases where more is not better.

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    sgc2c is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Mobil claims that their Mobil 1 High Mileage
    10W-40 has 1000 ppm ZDDP. Do you think
    that level would suffice for the 500 motor in a '70?

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    El perfecto......... and (not having looked at a bottle) I'll bet that it does not carry the EPA/API "starburst" symbol, either. I believe it does carry a CF - diesel service - rating, too.

    Here - I did some more homework for you ................ (long document)

    http://www.api.org/certifications/en..._march2010.pdf
    70eldo likes this.

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    sgc2c is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Thanks for the charts but again, I knew a lot of that.
    Looks like my years-ago suspicion was correct:
    See the specs for Mobil-1 15W-50; it has 1200 ppm phosphorous and 1300 zinc.
    Why did someone have an axe to grind with synthetic a number of posts ago? This one looks a bit on the thick side bit otherwise good. And in Southern Florida the 15W cold flow won't be much of a problem. "Cold" isn't much in the cards around here.

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgc2c View Post
    This one looks a bit on the thick side bit otherwise good. And in Southern Florida the 15W cold flow won't be much of a problem.
    Right. 15 is not the problem. 50 is. I think that is a bit to viscous.

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    When I lived in Southern California I used to run 10w40 oil in my 1960's high performance cars (Lamborghini and Jaguar XK's) and had very good results with this multi-grade oil. Of course we used to change oil every 1000 miles in those days, but this grade oil always kept the oil pressure (yes they had gages and idiot lights to) ay 60 ppsi even when the temperature was 100F.

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    If someone believes that "thick oil" is "oilier" then it's very difficult to overcome that misconception. You appear to "know a lot of that" so why did you start the thread in the first place ??

    I'll fall back on the old saw: What range of oils are recommended for your engine by the owner's manual and GM service manual for your 1970 car/engine ??? Post the recommendations.

    ..............and here's a kicker: What API designation was in force (if there even was such a designation then) when your engine was built in 1969/1970 ??? (SD - try to find it.)

    The poster that had problems with a synthetic oil - and this is a guess - probably referred to using a "modern" relatively low ZDDP synthetic oil in an older flat tappet engine, thus slowly eating away the lifter faces and cam lobes ...... "destroyed the valves".

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    The poster that had problems with a synthetic oil - and this is a guess - probably referred to using a "modern" relatively low ZDDP synthetic oil in an older flat tappet engine, thus slowly eating away the lifter faces and cam lobes ...... "destroyed the valves".
    Indeed! I bought the Eldorado in Stockton, CA and drove it to Tucson where I was in flight academy. I just wanted to replace all the fluids so I drove to a local service shop and had everything done. I wanted the best for the car, so I thought going full synthetic (which they had listed) would be the best. They young guy just asked me "are you sure?", and I asked him if it wouldn't be the best. He didn't know so, as naive as I was, I went ahead with it. At least they vacuum cleaned my doors that came with the service. I had to ask them what vacuumcleaning the doors meant, though, as I thought they meant the door panels. But they actually had a flat extension they could insert into the door along side the opened window and vacuum clean the inside of the door.

    Over 2 months time in which I did a trip from Tucson to Las Vegas to celebrate the new millenium (Y2K/2000) the engine had increasing starting problems after that so I had it diagnosed. They said two valves were bad. So I decided to have the complete engine overhauled (including acid bath and honed), because it would've been cheaper to do it there than to have it done in Europe.

    In contrary to that perfect engine it is now sitting on a leaking transmission though... And of course it is the seal between the engine and the transmission, so that requires to take out the engine again. I didn't have the money for that, so I just kept filling transmission oil in it over time...
    I learned that the oil sealant additive only works if you drive the car regularly, but if you let it sit longer it would start leaking again.

  10. #40
    sgc2c is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Which of the Rotella oils has the highest ZDDP?

    Would t5 semi-synth suffice in 10W-30 or
    10W-40? For this car also 15W-40 or 5W-40
    would be within viscosity range.
    Or would it be better served with t6?

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    I would get into the SOPUS (Shell Oil Products U.S.) site and dig for the blend spec sheets on the oils in question.

    FWIW, Shell owns and blends Shell oils, Quaker State (look at the DEFY oils) and Pennzoil (the LongLife oils). Chevron also blends a large range of HD fleet oils - DELO and DELVAC for starters. Dryden (Drydene) makes a HD 15W-40 we used in the 4 Cummins turbodiesels in the ship I captained for 11 years - and I ran the stuff in a tricked out '85 Ford 302 Fox-body Mustang GT. No problems.

    EDIT: Gulf Oil is becoming larger again - they used to have a broad range of HD fleet and marine oils.

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgc2c View Post
    Is it advisable to use 5W-50 in a 500 CI motor?
    Motorcraft makes one.
    The original manual for the 1970 Eldorado claims
    a wide variety of oils from 5W-20 up to 20W-40
    can be used. Engine has 63,000 miles on and it,
    understandably, leaks basically every fluid you
    can put in it.

    can
    Quote Originally Posted by sgc2c View Post
    Back to my original question, is 5W-50 too
    extreme for Florida? I'd think the 50 weight
    would be ideal in the heat for such a large
    engine and the 5 weight is already approved
    in the manual, ideal for cold starts, however
    few those are here.
    If you favor 10W-40 or 10W-30 then which,
    and why?
    Quote Originally Posted by sgc2c View Post
    Thanks for the charts but again, I knew a lot of that.
    Looks like my years-ago suspicion was correct:
    See the specs for Mobil-1 15W-50; it has 1200 ppm phosphorous and 1300 zinc.
    Why did someone have an axe to grind with synthetic a number of posts ago? This one looks a bit on the thick side bit otherwise good. And in Southern Florida the 15W cold flow won't be much of a problem. "Cold" isn't much in the cards around here.
    I can tell you as a ASE certified master technician that Mobil 1 15W50 is perfect for your 500ci Caddy. Especially in Florida. It's all I run in my 1995 Eldo and 1993 Mercedes 400E. Also, it's the highest phosphorus & zinc in Mobil 1's line up. And people saying 20W50 is only for motorcycles need to do some research.

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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?


  14. #44
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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?


  15. #45
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    Re: 5W-50 oil in 500 CI (1970 Eldorado) ?

    Your charts do not match. According to the above chart 10W30 & 5W30 should not be used above 90 degrees f.

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