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New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems

32K views 255 replies 23 participants last post by  stoveguyy 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey, everyone. First off, I'm glad this forum exists, and I'm very salty I didn't think to check here 3 days ago prior to buying an Eldorado.....off of craigslist.. Anyway!

I am absolutely new to cars, I don't really know much about how to fix them, or where to look for problems, or what situations to not get into after a quick look over, which all leaded me to finding a 95 Eldorado on Craigslist, it all seemed to run well on the parking lot test drive (first mistake), and so I got it instantly, not really checking out other cars first (second mistake).

After 20 minutes on the freeway, and noticing I passed my exit, I decided to cruise for a little bit, I pulled off and hit a backstreet to see what kind of MPG I am dealing with. I was pretty satisfied... Up until my nephew started freaking out and stated, "Uhm. There is something leaking into the car..." and almost as if on queue to those words, the car started steaming out of the vent, almost seemed like it had to be smoke as well.

I pulled off into a gas station, and tried calling the person for some information, but lets just say-- this individual is completely useless and is not wanting to talk so I can't really ask him for a refund, I guess I'm too easy going.

SO after 30 minutes of trying to figure out what I am going to do, because I am asking everyone at this gas station for help because I don't know what I am doing, I decide to take it to the nearest "mechanic", which was told to me that it is just down the road, so I head off in that direction and find an entire line of... Auto Body Repair Shops...

One guy finally takes a look at it, and tells me what the heating (core? cord?) was broken and that was the issue as to why it was spewing coolant into the car on the passenger side. I asked him what I can do about that and he said it would be $300 and 8 Hours of work, to which my jaw dropped. I asked if there was an alternative and he said they could "bypass" it. I asked what that would solve and he said it would stop spewing for sure, and I asked if it would stop overheating, he said definitely, they also replaced a clamp type item that connected the vacuum hose of the engine to another part of the engine, which previously had a hole in it. The car fired up and sounded great, I paid the man and took off down the road. That's when I am now experiencing low acceleration power, and I am like.... Huh ?

I end up going back to this guy about 5 times, he reassured me that after a good sit overnight the car would be absolutely fine and not to worry about anything, the overheating message, beeping and low acceleration are all because it hasn't sat long enough after the bypass. I tell him I feel like it might have been the plug he replaced, so he took it off and said it was ok to drive with it off. (third mistake? fourth?) At about the fifth time he told me my catalytic converter was bad, and I kept hearing it was "Cadillac Converter" "Catallic Converter", so none of what he was saying made sense, and I thought this would be the last thing I needed to make sure the car was good to go, so I asked him where I get that situated, and he directed me to a muffler shop. It was about 8 minutes away. I set up an appointment and got it replaced the next day.

(somewhere inbetween all this I picked up some oil and put more oil in the car, I randomly got power back but it kept dying out at random times)

After it got replaced, I thought all of my issues were going to be solved, so I took off down the road, happy as can be. I had power again! Now, I was happy with the v8 engine in this beast, I just roared it a couple 50-100 feet. Then the power dies out again, and I just get livid. I whip around to the shop and by this point, I'm not even mad I am just disappointed in my lack of car knowledge, and I tell him that it didn't work, we get another guy involved and discover that the car is indeed overheating. We let it all cool down, run some water in it and watch to see where it is going, and after about two minutes it just starts essentially throwing the water upwards. We let it cool down once more for about 30 minutes, the water was incredibly low afterwards, and he filled it up, told me to drive it to the house and not drive it anymore until I can figure out whats wrong with it.

At this point I had gotten in contact with the guy and he states he will bring his mechanic to the car to check it out, and replace whatever it is that is broken and get it back on the road. Just kidding. No show.

So the car is sitting here, and I realize that my neighbor has the same exact car, maybe a couple years newer, and very nice rims. I talk to him about what could be the issue, learned more about (after the mechanics and I had a long talk about why nobody likes to work on cadi engines - aluminum) how they warp when overheated and its all downhill from there.

So, I come to this forum looking for anyone who can just help me out here. I am willing to invest the time into fixing it. But I want to know what I should look for to see if it is too late to even want to try, what do you guys feel the issue might be?

I came to a realization last night that if maybe the heating (core? cord?) is replaced and the bypass was ... enabled again, that should clear up any issues, especially since the car hadn't overheated prior to the bypass. That and because the Catalytic Converter (which apparently you're supposed to be able to see all the way through, was meeeeeeesssed up) was replaced.

What do you guys think? I'm sure there are guides all over to find out how to do this, but I'd like to take it from some knowledgeable people on a realistic scale.

Thank you so much.
Rich
 
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#214 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

SO yea, with the guard off I decided to look a bit more closely at the spinning WP Tensioner Belt.

As it was spinning, with the 'pulley' completely in shambles and off, I noticed on the pulley area, it was all spinning but there was a maybe... 1 1/2 diameter metal circle that was wobbling back and forth right under the belt, or right next to it where the belt meets tensioner. I am thinking I need to replace the entire thing, not just the pulley, regardless, Im gonna look up the prices on these objects.

Motor vehicle Line art Drawing Auto part Technical drawing


It looks as if what I am talking about is if #6 is the tensioner, it would be right by the #2 I believe, or where the blue arrow is in pictures in previous post in regards to the pump belt.
 
#218 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

SO yea, with the guard off I decided to look a bit more closely at the spinning WP Tensioner Belt.

As it was spinning, with the 'pulley' completely in shambles and off, I noticed on the pulley area, it was all spinning but there was a maybe... 1 1/2 diameter metal circle that was wobbling back and forth right under the belt, or right next to it where the belt meets tensioner. I am thinking I need to replace the entire thing, not just the pulley, regardless, Im gonna look up the prices on these objects.

View attachment 131650

It looks as if what I am talking about is if #6 is the tensioner, it would be right by the #2 I believe, or where the blue arrow is in pictures in previous post in regards to the pump belt.
#6 is a tensioner, but the illustration is of the wrong side of the engine. The correct tensioner is in one of the photos that you took.

The complete tensioner will probably be about $55.00.
 
#217 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

the picture you've posted is of the serpentine (6rib) belt on the passenger side of the engine

try this picture



the water pump belt is the bottom half of the illustration (view A) noted in the top half with the A arrow

the water pump tensioner (with pulley, remember gm doesn't sell them separately) is #14
 
#219 · (Edited)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Rippy and 98, you guys are bosses. I was wondering why it looked so damn different. That's helps immensely. So basically what I'm looking at is the debris I was holding in one of the pictures, looked like it was accumulated by the same rotation of the pump, and just buildup. And thats from item #14 in view A of that picture, so I'm not looking for a literal pin-type object? Phew. Okay. Was stumping myself again.

It looks relatively easy to replace and fix. I think I am understanding more now as to why it would cause over heating. Could anyone give me a play by play as to why if it spins, it could be still broken and causing over heating?

http://www.ehow.com/list_7373793_problems-pulley-tension.html

This thread kind of sums it up, nvm on the play by play. :p
 
#223 ·
Thread is so long I can't recall when your limp mode comment showed up. Limp mode is temp issue. Why you replaced cat is ??? Maybe car was not running right. I still think cooling system had stop leak added and that is your "crud". Flushing out system should solve most of your issues. But, having a wp tensioner fail during your cooling issues is sorta ironic. No I don't think tensioner is main cause of all your issues, but it's odd.
 
#225 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Thank you guys, very much. I'm gonna order that pulley. How do I know if the tensioner is bad? Or is replacing the pulley good enough? It looks like the belt is in good shape, it also has the part number on it if it isn't, which I am sure I can diagnose a bad serpentine belt.

Overall it looks like a simple DIY / cheap repair. I'll keep you guys' updated, and thanks again.

Edit:

http://www.carpartkings.com/acdelco-water-pump-belt-tensioner-pulley-38025.html

^ This is what I'm going to buy, and I've seen many guides in Tech Tips and N* Performance on how to change it.

My tools:

A crummy set of pliers.
A (short) flathead screwdriver
A socket wrench that fits in the tensioner spot to release the belt.
All sockets that go to bolts in the car.

Do I need anything else?
 
#228 · (Edited)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Tools - get into Northern Tool and look at one of their ? $229 ? "400 piece" SAE/Metric tool sets that looks like mostly automotive stuff - Yes, it's probably made in China and will NOT be industrial shop grade, but it will allow you some limited DIY around the car and garage.

Your wp drive belt tensioner: Remove any interfering air intake ducting and, if necessary, the left engine torque strut (dogbone). There should be a steel safety shroud over the wp drive pulleys. It's held on by two nuts and a bolt - 10mm. Remove it - don't drop the parts. The tensioner pulley is held on by the shoulder bolt shown in my post/picture. The tensioner arm may be relieved of pressure by either using a crescent wrench on the cast lug on the tensioner arm or a 1/4" drive socket handle in the square hole in the arm itself. Lever the arm so as to relieve belt tension. The pulley may be removed alone by removing the retainer shoulder bolt - or you can remove the two long (10mm) studs that the safety shroud nuts came off of. The tensioner backing plate is threaded and those studs secure the tensioner to the water crossover housing.

As always, some helpful diagrams in my albums - the Community tab, Albums, the red Seville - 2 albums, 6 pages of Northstar stuff. (Your 1995 car WILL be somewhat different from my 2002.)
 
#229 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Tools - get into Northern Tool and look at one of their ? $229 ? "400 piece" SAE/Metric tool sets that looks like mostly automotive stuff - Yes, it's probably made in China and will NOT be industrial shop grade, but it will allow you some limited DIY around the car and garage.p
$229 is a little steep with Burning Man right around the corner, however I know I need a particular tool to remove the pulley's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGp-RCNBCY&t=1m16s

This guy is removing so much stuff for a simple waterpump replacement... But its a 2006 DTS, not a 95 Eldorado.. It looks roughly the same, however I don't think I'm going to remove all that stuff. The air intake box, sure. The extra air line to the throttle body, sure. The electrical wires and all that other stuff, fuel pump etc?! Nope. NOPE. :thehand:

Your wp drive belt tensioner: Remove any interfering air intake ducting and, if necessary, the left engine torque strut (dogbone). There should be a steel safety shroud over the wp drive pulleys. It's held on by two nuts and a bolt - 10mm. Remove it - don't drop the parts. The tensioner pulley is held on by the shoulder bolt shown in my post/picture. The tensioner arm may be relieved of pressure by either using a crescent wrench on the cast lug on the tensioner arm or a 1/4" drive socket handle in the square hole in the arm itself. Lever the arm so as to relieve belt tension. The pulley may be removed alone by removing the retainer shoulder bolt - or you can remove the two long (10mm) studs that the safety shroud nuts came off of. The tensioner backing plate is threaded and those studs secure the tensioner to the water crossover housing.
There was a steel shroud, sadly, I brain farted and left it and the bolts on my front bumper overnight, came out to find the bolts missing, got to be somewhere on the ground, I'll find them or go to the hardware store to get new 10mm bolts. On mine, though I'm looking for some sort of bolt, and that just doesn't look like it exists. I'm gonna have to go take more pictures to see if I'm fullblown tarded, or if I am missing something. (I was looking at your albums, and I can't necessarily find a 'retainer shoulder bolt'. Would it be absurd to ask for a pic?

Auto part Automotive exterior Vehicle


On that blue arrow is where I am assuming the pulley goes, but I can't find anything that even remotely resembles a pulley that I'm looking at buying. Maybe it's just THAT messed up? I can see the metal ring that was posted in #200, but nothing else even remotely resembles a pulley-- could it be completely shredded without me noticing that much noise / belt not being messed up?

As always, some helpful diagrams in my albums - the Community tab, Albums, the red Seville - 2 albums, 6 pages of Northstar stuff. (Your 1995 car WILL be somewhat different from my 2002.)
I am looking through, finding a bunch of useful information.
 
#230 · (Edited)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Just from the picture that belt tensioner pulley is beyond help and at 10 seconds of ANY more driving will cost you a megabuck or so. Count on it.

Put another way: That tensioner pulley is terribly damaged and is of NO use. DO NOT even start the engine until you repair the belt and tension system. No wonder you have coolng problems.

Anyone else see that the pulley races are no longer concentric - the balls are all on one side and the outer race has moved off-center. there's probably NO belt tension whatsoever.

"Shoulder bolt" - have you gone back and looked at the water pump tensioner picture I posted 2 days ago at 5:30 PM ????? It's all in this thread - if you simply look at the last post in line you're lost forever .............

The pulley you're looking for - what's wrong with the giant picture that Rippy Cadillac posted ???? Same pulley as in my tensioner disassembly picture.

That's NOT a picture of a 2006 DTS - that pulley picture is of a pre-1998 Northstar engine installation.......... why throw a 2006 distractor in here ???

EDIT at 2:57 PM: That picture of his tensioner pulley - I think the ENTIRE outer race and balls are gone - gone. No wonder he found the fried ball race stuck to the belt - nothing is working. It's a true wonder that the damage is not significantly greater.
 
#232 · (Edited)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Look in www.rockauto.com.

Does this look familiar ????

Your car, your engine, your year, "belt drive", your tensioner assembly, or tensioner pulley, 3-rib.

Assembly - about $50 - Gates #38197
Pulley - about $24 - Gates #38025

To replace the pulley alone you remove the black bolt in the center of the pulley and install the new pulley, tighten the bolt to about 16 lb/ft.
 
#233 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Alright, so after seeing what Submarine just posted, everything makes so much sense. :thumbsup:

Here's what I'm dealing with, and now it all makes sense I need a pulley incredibly bad, doesn't look hard to replace whatsoever.

Auto part Tire Automotive tire Automotive wheel system Wheel


On this photo, you can notice I don't even really have a pulley. You can see the messed up circular ring, for sure. The rustic spring at the top of the photo ( where you can see the coloration by the rust ) is where the pulley melted onto.

Tire Automotive wheel system Vehicle Automotive tire Auto part


This is another angle, right before I took it off. The belt seems to be in OK condition, but there are a couple of scrapes here and there on the edges, might consider getting a new one.



Auto part


So above, after looking at what Submarine posted, it all makes absolute sense. I DONT HAVE A PULLEY. O_O Got that in the mail right now. Replacing it in a couple days. I removed the belt and the tensioner and looked down to see that 3rd rib deal, it spins fine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rbg2Ggz2fY


SO that really, really helps and it looks like it wasn't so hard to get the tensioner off anyway. Remove a couple is small screws and BAM, you're good to go.


Edit:

I'm for sure going to need a new tensioner, as well.

I was putting the tensioner back on, just to get in the groove, and I figured, "Hey. I might as well get this bolt out so when the pulley arrives, I can do a quick change and bam, put the belt on and we're good to go!" I couldn't get a good enough grip in hand to remove the bolt, so I put it back on, and took a 13MM to it, went to loosen the bolt and s-s-s-s-snap. A tiny arm disconnected and the tensioner dropped down a little bit, basically rendering it useless unless I was dumb enough to put the belt on to hold it in place. So, pulley and tensioner, here I come!
 
#234 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Don't forget to change the belt as well, otherwise it will either slip or jump off the pulleys.

Also, check to see if there is any damage to or belt material embedded in the grooves of the large pulley on the right hand side of picture #2 above, as well as in the grooves of the water pump itself (the wp will have to be by checked by touch or with a small mirror). If it is not damaged but there is junk from the belt embedded in the grooves, you can carefully use something sharp to clean out the grooves.

By the way, after my incident with the pulley seizing up on me, I now keep a spare tensioner and belt in my trunk.
 
#235 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

are you sure that the tensioner itself is okay?

after today's posts i'm starting to think it might be more prudent to replace the tensioner assembly (comes with a pulley)

at least for safety's sake ...

also replace the belt ... less than $17.50 at list price at a dealer (probably can save about $5 buying an aftermarket belt)

and while you're in there (if you haven't already) spin the water pump by hand and make sure it spins freely (it probably will but just in case)
 
#236 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

are you sure that the tensioner itself is okay?

after today's posts i'm starting to think it might be more prudent to replace the tensioner assembly (comes with a pulley)

at least for safety's sake ...

also replace the belt ... less than $17.50 at list price at a dealer (probably can save about $5 buying an aftermarket belt)

and while you're in there (if you haven't already) spin the water pump by hand and make sure it spins freely (it probably will but just in case)
No, the tensioner is shot, I tried to take the bolt out for practice, snapped. I have the assembly being shipped to me right now. (PS: Do you have parts I can buy off you for future reference? I notice the forum member discount in your sig) I will get to the water pump area shortly, but the parents are coming into town, and I have to clean up this house. Ha. But yes, that was a plan. I saw in that video (2006 DTS, also for whoever was wondering why I brought that up in previous post(s), its because I linked a youtube video of a lot of work being done in the water pump housing area. Resembled enough for me to understand how to take out the tensioner.) In the video it wasn't spinning very well, I know how to check it. :thumbsup:


Don't forget to change the belt as well, otherwise it will either slip or jump off the pulleys.

Also, check to see if there is any damage to or belt material embedded in the grooves of the large pulley on the right hand side of picture #2 above, as well as in the grooves of the water pump itself (the wp will have to be by checked by touch or with a small mirror). If it is not damaged but there is junk from the belt embedded in the grooves, you can carefully use something sharp to clean out the grooves.

By the way, after my incident with the pulley seizing up on me, I now keep a spare tensioner and belt in my trunk.
Yea I was thinking of changing the belt. But question, if my belt is in 'good' condition:

1) How is a new one not going to slip or jump
2) How is the old one going to slip or jump

That's a good idea to keep spares, I'll ahve to do that. I will check all the grooves in all the things, they looked like they were in good shape.
 
#237 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

yes, you can PM or email or call if you'd like to check on parts (email is preferred)
please send your VIN just to make my job a bit easier and help ensure correct part lookup

in this case the aftermarket parts are probably just fine and definitely a lot cheaper than even i can offer with the discount

:cool2:
 
#239 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

You'll need a very, very, very special HUGE toothed socket for water pump removal and replacement. Do some study. Google "cadillac forums northstar water pump replacement".

This part of the engine work IS rocket science (a mistake means broken stuff ............).

........... and if you stick your fingers down by the wp pulley and it turns/spins smoothly, don't fix it if it ain't broke.
 
#240 · (Edited)
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

You'll need a very, very, very special HUGE toothed socket for water pump removal and replacement. Do some study. Google "cadillac forums northstar water pump replacement".

This part of the engine work IS rocket science (a mistake means broken stuff ............).

........... and if you stick your fingers down by the wp pulley and it turns/spins smoothly, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Aye, aye, Cpt. I'm aware. I wasn't planning on taking the WP out.

1) It's been stated in this thread previously that you need a tool.
2) I've watched 10+ videos on WP removal to try to spot the tensioner pulley, as well as know how to replace it.
3) The mechanic quoted me $55 on the removal tool.

I know. :) I wouldn't dare break my car by pulling it out by hand or something.

And the WP pulley turns very smoothly.
Like buttering up some chicken. Just goes with the movement.
 
#243 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Buy a new belt and install it and have no worries concerning this problem. Keep your used one as a backup. Or do it the other way around if you want to. You would be able to get the total life of that used, damaged belt that way, but it could go at the worst of times. i.e. the fast lane during rush hour traffic!
 
#244 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Buy a new belt and install it and have no worries concerning this problem. Keep your used one as a backup. Or do it the other way around if you want to. You would be able to get the total life of that used, damaged belt that way, but it could go at the worst of times. i.e. the fast lane during rush hour traffic!
Well, that would surely suck. I'll see if I can't get on getting a new one faster.
 
#245 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

This thread has got to be the biggest thread I have seen in a while. Now if this was my car I would have already been checking everything out and making sure everything checked out. When I got my caddy a few years ago I was like you I didnt know crap about the car but I learned quickly and three years later its my most reliable car

So, if you play your cards right this car will pan out for you
 
#246 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Hey again everyone,

I just installed my Pulley-Tensioner after it came in the mail.

I'm trying to figure out where the best spot to see if there is flow. I figured I'd see something if I took the purge line hose off, but I'm not. I checked the lower radiator hose to see if there had been a buildup of coolant, there has been.

Also, when I squeeze the hoses (top and bot) I'm not sure if I've heard this before, but there is a sound that air is easily escaping from the ends of the radiator hoses. (The car has been off for days).

Any ideas?
 
#248 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

You got it, thanks.


Also, for just around the block driving, completely dry, new roads (nothing to splash up into the car), is it ok to drive with the serpentine belt guard off? Or should my drive be to autozone to pick up some 10mm bolts to put it back on?
 
#249 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

i drove with my splash shield off for a long time, i just put it back on in june after installing a new a/c compressor, so it should be fine to do so but be warned when i took my belt off it was missing pieces from the rocks hitting the belt
 
#250 ·
Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

Awesome, thank you everyone! The car isn't overheating! At least not on a 10 minute cruise around. I want to test it on the freeway, I got the bolt(s) to plug that guard back in, and I got an oil filter and a big thing of oil. Bouts to do that up once I figure out how to get the filter off. ;D It's grimed down there.
 
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