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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by rkeating09 ... Does this all add up to what my current repair solution is? Things to replace ...
  1. #226
    98cadillac is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by rkeating09 View Post
    ...
    Does this all add up to what my current repair solution is?

    Things to replace in the future:
    Battery rack cables (Negative wire showing corrosion)
    Engine Mount Holdy-Majig (Arrowed in a recent previous post), Bushing is dried/cracked.
    Spark Plugs (not sure how old, haven't taken any out to look)
    One of my exhaust pipes is unaligned and lower than the rest.
    A couple noises after going over bumps (probably shock related), it sounds like something is far too low to the ground and bumps against the asphalt.




    The more and more I learn about this car, and look inside the engine at all the crud and corrosion, this car was definitely not kept up well enough for a N*, so it's an intimidating project that I hope I don't end up having a bad HG at the end of.

    Edit: I just recalled the Mechanic I took my car to for a radiator / coolant system flush pointed out the pulley and pegged that as the problem, but also wanted to replace the water pump and the pulley, as well as the flush and priced it at $564. What was he thinking? $55 total for tensioner and pulley, $55 for the flush, $37 for a waterpump (they sell GMC Certified parts, I am assuming they have the water pump removal tool, especially because he quoted me $55 on it). So It's like.. $400 in labor? Seriously? For something that should take.. an hour or two?
    Regardless of whether it should technically add up to the tensioner needing to be replaced, it is obviously bad, so it needs to be replaced before anything else on the list.

    As far as the cost for the mechanic to replace the water pump and tensioner, that's probably about an average cost that many mechanics will charge, but once you do it yourself, you'll be even more convinced that it's absurdly high. Also, you can often get the water pump socket for about half of what they are quoting you or less.

    The parts prices for the tensioner and water pump sound about right.

    Quote Originally Posted by stoveguyy View Post
    Thread is so long I can't recall when your limp mode comment showed up. Limp mode is temp issue. Why you replaced cat is ??? Maybe car was not running right. I still think cooling system had stop leak added and that is your "crud". Flushing out system should solve most of your issues. But, having a wp tensioner fail during your cooling issues is sorta ironic. No I don't think tensioner is main cause of all your issues, but it's odd.
    The tensioner pulley was likely on it's way out and was finished off by operating the engine at high RPMs. It sounds a bit ironic at first, but there is a plausible explanation for it.

  2. #227
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by 98cadillac View Post
    Regardless of whether it should technically add up to the tensioner needing to be replaced, it is obviously bad, so it needs to be replaced before anything else on the list.

    As far as the cost for the mechanic to replace the water pump and tensioner, that's probably about an average cost that many mechanics will charge, but once you do it yourself, you'll be even more convinced that it's absurdly high. Also, you can often get the water pump socket for about half of what they are quoting you or less.

    The parts prices for the tensioner and water pump sound about right.



    The tensioner pulley was likely on it's way out and was finished off by operating the engine at high RPMs. It sounds a bit ironic at first, but there is a plausible explanation for it.
    Yea, I was thinking about the 'irony' this morning. And I don't think there is 'irony' associated with cars, haha. I think there has to be a logical explanation, like you've stated: It was more than likely on the way out, and operating at high RPM probably shut it down completely.

  3. #228
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Tools - get into Northern Tool and look at one of their ? $229 ? "400 piece" SAE/Metric tool sets that looks like mostly automotive stuff - Yes, it's probably made in China and will NOT be industrial shop grade, but it will allow you some limited DIY around the car and garage.

    Your wp drive belt tensioner: Remove any interfering air intake ducting and, if necessary, the left engine torque strut (dogbone). There should be a steel safety shroud over the wp drive pulleys. It's held on by two nuts and a bolt - 10mm. Remove it - don't drop the parts. The tensioner pulley is held on by the shoulder bolt shown in my post/picture. The tensioner arm may be relieved of pressure by either using a crescent wrench on the cast lug on the tensioner arm or a 1/4" drive socket handle in the square hole in the arm itself. Lever the arm so as to relieve belt tension. The pulley may be removed alone by removing the retainer shoulder bolt - or you can remove the two long (10mm) studs that the safety shroud nuts came off of. The tensioner backing plate is threaded and those studs secure the tensioner to the water crossover housing.

    As always, some helpful diagrams in my albums - the Community tab, Albums, the red Seville - 2 albums, 6 pages of Northstar stuff. (Your 1995 car WILL be somewhat different from my 2002.)

  4. #229
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    Tools - get into Northern Tool and look at one of their ? $229 ? "400 piece" SAE/Metric tool sets that looks like mostly automotive stuff - Yes, it's probably made in China and will NOT be industrial shop grade, but it will allow you some limited DIY around the car and garage.p
    $229 is a little steep with Burning Man right around the corner, however I know I need a particular tool to remove the pulley's.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGp-RCNBCY&t=1m16s

    This guy is removing so much stuff for a simple waterpump replacement... But its a 2006 DTS, not a 95 Eldorado.. It looks roughly the same, however I don't think I'm going to remove all that stuff. The air intake box, sure. The extra air line to the throttle body, sure. The electrical wires and all that other stuff, fuel pump etc?! Nope. NOPE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    Your wp drive belt tensioner: Remove any interfering air intake ducting and, if necessary, the left engine torque strut (dogbone). There should be a steel safety shroud over the wp drive pulleys. It's held on by two nuts and a bolt - 10mm. Remove it - don't drop the parts. The tensioner pulley is held on by the shoulder bolt shown in my post/picture. The tensioner arm may be relieved of pressure by either using a crescent wrench on the cast lug on the tensioner arm or a 1/4" drive socket handle in the square hole in the arm itself. Lever the arm so as to relieve belt tension. The pulley may be removed alone by removing the retainer shoulder bolt - or you can remove the two long (10mm) studs that the safety shroud nuts came off of. The tensioner backing plate is threaded and those studs secure the tensioner to the water crossover housing.
    There was a steel shroud, sadly, I brain farted and left it and the bolts on my front bumper overnight, came out to find the bolts missing, got to be somewhere on the ground, I'll find them or go to the hardware store to get new 10mm bolts. On mine, though I'm looking for some sort of bolt, and that just doesn't look like it exists. I'm gonna have to go take more pictures to see if I'm fullblown tarded, or if I am missing something. (I was looking at your albums, and I can't necessarily find a 'retainer shoulder bolt'. Would it be absurd to ask for a pic?

    Tensioner Beltjpg.jpg

    On that blue arrow is where I am assuming the pulley goes, but I can't find anything that even remotely resembles a pulley that I'm looking at buying. Maybe it's just THAT messed up? I can see the metal ring that was posted in #200, but nothing else even remotely resembles a pulley-- could it be completely shredded without me noticing that much noise / belt not being messed up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    As always, some helpful diagrams in my albums - the Community tab, Albums, the red Seville - 2 albums, 6 pages of Northstar stuff. (Your 1995 car WILL be somewhat different from my 2002.)
    I am looking through, finding a bunch of useful information.

  5. #230
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Just from the picture that belt tensioner pulley is beyond help and at 10 seconds of ANY more driving will cost you a megabuck or so. Count on it.

    Put another way: That tensioner pulley is terribly damaged and is of NO use. DO NOT even start the engine until you repair the belt and tension system. No wonder you have coolng problems.

    Anyone else see that the pulley races are no longer concentric - the balls are all on one side and the outer race has moved off-center. there's probably NO belt tension whatsoever.

    "Shoulder bolt" - have you gone back and looked at the water pump tensioner picture I posted 2 days ago at 5:30 PM ????? It's all in this thread - if you simply look at the last post in line you're lost forever .............

    The pulley you're looking for - what's wrong with the giant picture that Rippy Cadillac posted ???? Same pulley as in my tensioner disassembly picture.

    That's NOT a picture of a 2006 DTS - that pulley picture is of a pre-1998 Northstar engine installation.......... why throw a 2006 distractor in here ???

    EDIT at 2:57 PM: That picture of his tensioner pulley - I think the ENTIRE outer race and balls are gone - gone. No wonder he found the fried ball race stuck to the belt - nothing is working. It's a true wonder that the damage is not significantly greater.

  6. #231
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Alright, big post inc.

  7. #232
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Look in www.rockauto.com.

    Does this look familiar ????

    Your car, your engine, your year, "belt drive", your tensioner assembly, or tensioner pulley, 3-rib.

    Assembly - about $50 - Gates #38197
    Pulley - about $24 - Gates #38025

    To replace the pulley alone you remove the black bolt in the center of the pulley and install the new pulley, tighten the bolt to about 16 lb/ft.

  8. #233
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Alright, so after seeing what Submarine just posted, everything makes so much sense.

    Here's what I'm dealing with, and now it all makes sense I need a pulley incredibly bad, doesn't look hard to replace whatsoever.

    Buildup area, looks like belt is bad..JPG

    On this photo, you can notice I don't even really have a pulley. You can see the messed up circular ring, for sure. The rustic spring at the top of the photo ( where you can see the coloration by the rust ) is where the pulley melted onto.

    Side View, no Pulley.JPG

    This is another angle, right before I took it off. The belt seems to be in OK condition, but there are a couple of scrapes here and there on the edges, might consider getting a new one.



    tensioner pulley, or lackthereof.JPG

    So above, after looking at what Submarine posted, it all makes absolute sense. I DONT HAVE A PULLEY. O_O Got that in the mail right now. Replacing it in a couple days. I removed the belt and the tensioner and looked down to see that 3rd rib deal, it spins fine:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rbg2Ggz2fY


    SO that really, really helps and it looks like it wasn't so hard to get the tensioner off anyway. Remove a couple is small screws and BAM, you're good to go.


    Edit:

    I'm for sure going to need a new tensioner, as well.

    I was putting the tensioner back on, just to get in the groove, and I figured, "Hey. I might as well get this bolt out so when the pulley arrives, I can do a quick change and bam, put the belt on and we're good to go!" I couldn't get a good enough grip in hand to remove the bolt, so I put it back on, and took a 13MM to it, went to loosen the bolt and s-s-s-s-snap. A tiny arm disconnected and the tensioner dropped down a little bit, basically rendering it useless unless I was dumb enough to put the belt on to hold it in place. So, pulley and tensioner, here I come!

  9. #234
    98cadillac is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Don't forget to change the belt as well, otherwise it will either slip or jump off the pulleys.

    Also, check to see if there is any damage to or belt material embedded in the grooves of the large pulley on the right hand side of picture #2 above, as well as in the grooves of the water pump itself (the wp will have to be by checked by touch or with a small mirror). If it is not damaged but there is junk from the belt embedded in the grooves, you can carefully use something sharp to clean out the grooves.

    By the way, after my incident with the pulley seizing up on me, I now keep a spare tensioner and belt in my trunk.

  10. #235
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    are you sure that the tensioner itself is okay?

    after today's posts i'm starting to think it might be more prudent to replace the tensioner assembly (comes with a pulley)

    at least for safety's sake ...

    also replace the belt ... less than $17.50 at list price at a dealer (probably can save about $5 buying an aftermarket belt)

    and while you're in there (if you haven't already) spin the water pump by hand and make sure it spins freely (it probably will but just in case)
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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  11. #236
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    are you sure that the tensioner itself is okay?

    after today's posts i'm starting to think it might be more prudent to replace the tensioner assembly (comes with a pulley)

    at least for safety's sake ...

    also replace the belt ... less than $17.50 at list price at a dealer (probably can save about $5 buying an aftermarket belt)

    and while you're in there (if you haven't already) spin the water pump by hand and make sure it spins freely (it probably will but just in case)
    No, the tensioner is shot, I tried to take the bolt out for practice, snapped. I have the assembly being shipped to me right now. (PS: Do you have parts I can buy off you for future reference? I notice the forum member discount in your sig) I will get to the water pump area shortly, but the parents are coming into town, and I have to clean up this house. Ha. But yes, that was a plan. I saw in that video (2006 DTS, also for whoever was wondering why I brought that up in previous post(s), its because I linked a youtube video of a lot of work being done in the water pump housing area. Resembled enough for me to understand how to take out the tensioner.) In the video it wasn't spinning very well, I know how to check it.


    Quote Originally Posted by 98cadillac View Post
    Don't forget to change the belt as well, otherwise it will either slip or jump off the pulleys.

    Also, check to see if there is any damage to or belt material embedded in the grooves of the large pulley on the right hand side of picture #2 above, as well as in the grooves of the water pump itself (the wp will have to be by checked by touch or with a small mirror). If it is not damaged but there is junk from the belt embedded in the grooves, you can carefully use something sharp to clean out the grooves.

    By the way, after my incident with the pulley seizing up on me, I now keep a spare tensioner and belt in my trunk.
    Yea I was thinking of changing the belt. But question, if my belt is in 'good' condition:

    1) How is a new one not going to slip or jump
    2) How is the old one going to slip or jump

    That's a good idea to keep spares, I'll ahve to do that. I will check all the grooves in all the things, they looked like they were in good shape.

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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    yes, you can PM or email or call if you'd like to check on parts (email is preferred)
    please send your VIN just to make my job a bit easier and help ensure correct part lookup

    in this case the aftermarket parts are probably just fine and definitely a lot cheaper than even i can offer with the discount

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  13. #238
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Haha, thanks, dude.

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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    You'll need a very, very, very special HUGE toothed socket for water pump removal and replacement. Do some study. Google "cadillac forums northstar water pump replacement".

    This part of the engine work IS rocket science (a mistake means broken stuff ............).

    ........... and if you stick your fingers down by the wp pulley and it turns/spins smoothly, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

  15. #240
    rkeating09 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New to Cars in General, have a 95 Eldorado, plethora of problems, help?! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    You'll need a very, very, very special HUGE toothed socket for water pump removal and replacement. Do some study. Google "cadillac forums northstar water pump replacement".

    This part of the engine work IS rocket science (a mistake means broken stuff ............).

    ........... and if you stick your fingers down by the wp pulley and it turns/spins smoothly, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

    Aye, aye, Cpt. I'm aware. I wasn't planning on taking the WP out.

    1) It's been stated in this thread previously that you need a tool.
    2) I've watched 10+ videos on WP removal to try to spot the tensioner pulley, as well as know how to replace it.
    3) The mechanic quoted me $55 on the removal tool.

    I know. I wouldn't dare break my car by pulling it out by hand or something.

    And the WP pulley turns very smoothly.
    Like buttering up some chicken. Just goes with the movement.

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