Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Symptoms: 1) Stalled four or five times on interstate off ramp or stop light on highway. Only code "Engine Stall ...
  1. #1
    SwampeastMike is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Symptoms:

    1) Stalled four or five times on interstate off ramp or stop light on highway. Only code "Engine Stall Detected". Hasn't happened for a few months now.

    2) Usually but not always very rough running (like missing on a number of cylinders) for about 30 seconds with stone cold engine. No codes whatsoever.

    3) Twice in last few days a flashing "Service Engine Light" about a minute after a stone cold start AND after the initial rough running has ended. I turn off the engine immediately, restart and everything is perfect. Only code is P0300 (misfire detected).

    --------------

    Perhaps failing crankshaft or camshaft position sensors? If so, which is more likely? Also, I see mention that the body color of the two crankshaft position sensors is different (making me think different parts) but I only find one listed? Why the different colors if they are the same parts?

    165K on the odometer, 138k when I bought five years ago. I do not know if any of the sensors have been replaced.

    Throttle body, spacer, intake manifold, IAC, etc. removed and thoroughly cleaned last year. The IAC pintle/seat and inside, upper part of the throttle body were hideously filthy. These problems began immediately after the throttle body, etc. cleaning and at first included DTC for high idle speed. That problem traced to a pre-existing crack in the "dirty air" PCV hose grommet where it connects to the valve cover.

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    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Tough call. Not saying it can't happen, but unlike the CKP sensors, I don't recall CMP sensor failures without a code being set. I don't recall if the pre-2000 engines used the same CKP sensors or not (I think Sub knows), but the post 2000's don't. There is an A & B sensor that are not interchangeable.

    Your intermittent stalling symptoms do resemble CKP sensors, but not the rough idle. You might stop in at AutoZone or such and have them read your codes to see what cylinder is misbehaving. Maybe you have two problems going on.

  4. #3
    vincentm's Avatar
    vincentm is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    When my CMP failed the car idled a bit rough but it threw a P0340 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Circuit code

  5. #4
    basscatt's Avatar
    basscatt is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    you may have two - unrelated things going on -
    the stalling might have nothing to do with the misfire -

    Only code is P0300 (misfire detected).

    P0300 is a generic misfire code -
    our on-board code readers will not display WHICH cylinder/cylinders is/are misfiring -
    only that there IS a misfire -

    take the car to any large auto parts store - they will check your codes for free -

    P0301 is a misfire in cylinder #1 - P0302 is cylinder #2 - P0303 is #3 - etc -

    once you discover WHICH cylinder is misfiring - diagnosis becomes much easier -
    ----------------------------------
    ------------------------------------

    Throttle body, spacer, intake manifold, IAC, etc.
    removed and thoroughly cleaned last year.

    one thing that comes to mind is the "O" ring on the IAC -
    you might check to be sure it is there - and in good condition -
    -----------------------------

    it's always nice to have a code set along with "typical" symptoms -
    that way you are close to 99% positive of the problem -

    without the matching codes - it is an "EDUCATED GUESS" -
    but the MOST common cause of stalling - without codes -
    has been the crank sensors - but that has been in the 2000 and later cars -
    and the crank sensors are a known problem -
    with the Made in Mexico "tan and gray" units being the culprits -

    the pre 2000 units were NOT known to be a problem -
    but YOUR symptoms sure do match failing crank sensors -

    if you decide to replace them - there are two -
    and both are the same numbers - unlike the 2000+ models -

    I would be comfortable recommending EITHER

    DELPHI Part # SS10090 - $29.19 each -
    http://www.amazon.com/automotive/dp/B000CGM6JU

    OR -
    ACDELCO Part # 213345 - $30.57 - each -
    http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-213-34...ype=automotive

    and it looks like amazon has the best prices - with free shipping -
    not a big difference between the two -
    but a couple bucks is still a couple bucks -
    and Delphi was an oem supplier -

  6. #5
    SwampeastMike is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    I've wondered about the IAC O-ring as well. It's definitely there and appears in good condition, but there's always that comment in the FSM about "replace the O-ring" whenever the IAC is removed. The problem is that the O-ring is no longer available except with a new IAC valve!

  7. #6
    JimD is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampeastMike View Post
    I've wondered about the IAC O-ring as well. It's definitely there and appears in good condition, but there's always that comment in the FSM about "replace the O-ring" whenever the IAC is removed. The problem is that the O-ring is no longer available except with a new IAC valve!
    If you suspect that O ring, this test might tell you something.

    Remove the IAC valve and the O ring. Inspect the O ring carefully under bright light and a magnifying glass. Thoroughly wet the O ring surfaces with silicone spray. Allow the O ring to sit for an hour or so.

    Using Q'tips (or ???) clean the O ring groove.

    Reassemble and observe results (if any).

  8. #7
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    DO NOT use silicone spray. Silicone is instant death to O2 sensors. The last place you want to use silicone is anywhere near the intake system. A drop of motor oil will work quit e well and is much safer.
    basscatt likes this.

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    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampeastMike View Post
    I've wondered about the IAC O-ring as well. It's definitely there and appears in good condition, but there's always that comment in the FSM about "replace the O-ring" whenever the IAC is removed. The problem is that the O-ring is no longer available except with a new IAC valve!
    -----------------------------------
    The problem is that the O-ring is no longer available
    except with a new IAC valve!


    actually - the "O" ring IS available -

    a couple years ago a neighbor was cleaning TB and IAC -
    he lost the "O" ring -

    went to the parts store -
    they had the big red box with an assortment of "O" rings -

    with IAC in hand - we found one that was a tight fit -
    and when when installed on the IAC - it stretched just enough -
    to become the PERFECT size -

    neighbor still has the car - and it still runs perfect -

  10. #9
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Any hardware store will likely have an assortment as well.

  11. #10
    SwampeastMike is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    I'll try again with the O-ring. I asked at a very large Napa store who also had a large assortment of O-rings. By the color of the original though they said it was a special fuel resistant material and they had none that size of that type--just the regular black ones in the proper size.

  12. #11
    JimD is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampeastMike View Post
    I'll try again with the O-ring. I asked at a very large Napa store who also had a large assortment of O-rings. By the color of the original though they said it was a special fuel resistant material and they had none that size of that type--just the regular black ones in the proper size.
    Fuel resistant material?

    There is no fuel present at the throttle body.

  13. #12
    basscatt's Avatar
    basscatt is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampeastMike View Post
    I'll try again with the O-ring. I asked at a very large Napa store who also had a large assortment of O-rings. By the color of the original though they said it was a special fuel resistant material and they had none that size of that type--just the regular black ones in the proper size.
    -----------------------------
    just the regular black ones in the proper size.
    that is all you need - just a regular - black - "O" ring -

  14. #13
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cam/Crank Position Sensor Problem?

    Yeah, the IAC valve is way upstream of the fuel injectors. No need for fuel or oil resistant rubber.

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