How to move an unpowered seat?
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, How to move an unpowered seat? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Was at the salvage yard today, and there were 4 black on black last gen Sevilles. As I was looking ...
  1. #1
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Was at the salvage yard today, and there were 4 black on black last gen Sevilles. As I was looking through them, I saw the word "AUTO" on the lumbar button on the drivers seat in one of them. I got excited, and wondered if it was the system that just moves the lumbar adjustment up and down, or the super rare air system. I took the seat back off, and it's the air system!

    Problem is, the car has electrical problems (IPC, horn, HVAC, starter, horn, seats, ect. have no power), and I can't move the seats forward to access the bolts. Any ideas?

    Also, am I correct in thinking that the syst is self contained in the seat? No control modules elsewhere, no extra wiring?

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    vincentm's Avatar
    vincentm is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Swivel extension?

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    The track is over both mounting bolts in the rear. I'm looking at my seat now to see if I can move it manually, but it isn't exactly like the older motor and cable systems.

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    So, messed around with my seats a bit...

    Assuming the seat bottom shell is the same on the adaptive seat, if I remove the upholstery and foam, and then the support springs, I have access to the drive motor. The shafts can be disconnected and turned from above.

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    SwampeastMike is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How to move an unpowered seat?

    Also, am I correct in thinking that the syst is self contained in the seat? No control modules elsewhere, no extra wiring?
    Yes, everything is contained within the seat and the electrical connectors are identical. Neither the adaptive nor the massage seat electronic modules interface directly with the main data system. They do however connect indirectly to the main data system via the MSM (memory seat module) underneath the driver seat cushion. The good thing is that the MSM is identical regardless of the lumbar system used.

    You can remove the adaptive lumbar unit and control module via the back of the seat but you'll likely have to clip wires that run below the seat. If you do, prepare for a wiring experience (especially on the driver side) to install in another seat.

    I've recently added the massage feature to my '99 and it was neither easy nor straightforward even with full schematics. Relatively easy on the passenger side but on the driver side the position sensors are wired differently and seem EXTREMELY picky about the exact location of both the 5V reference and reference ground signals.

    A look at the schematics shows that there is NO memory function for the adaptive lumbar so that should make things easier if you just try to remove and reinstall the modules without removing the entire seats.

    p.s. If you can disconnect and access the electric connectors to the seats you can bring the seat to life by giving power to the big orange wire and ground to the big black one...

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Thanks Mike.

    The adaptive feature is for the drivers seat only, so I'll only need the one. I thought about just removing the air system, but then realized that the rear seat frame is different, as the lumbar support is an air bladder, and not mechanical as in the standard and massage seats.

    Is the MSM programmed with the VIN? Will I have to swap mine in?

    Out of curiosity, any info on how many cars actually had the option?

    ----------

    Hmmm, doing some reading, it looks like the adaptive seating might be for both front seats?

  8. #7
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: How to move an unpowered seat?

    You can easily replace the seat frame is only held in 2 plastic clips and 2 metal clips, the only tool you need is a set of pliers.
    Also, as s...mike mentioned as long as you get access to the thick orange wire coming from the floor to the seat (try from the front side) and you apply 12V DC on that wire and ground to the car body, BAM!, the seat is alive.
    Get one of those small 12V batteries (like the one for the garage door opener backup power) and a couple of alligator clips and you are all set.
    I would love to see one of those adaptive seats...and the cooled seats on the Escalade (if I am not mistaking).

  9. #8
    SwampeastMike is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How to move an unpowered seat?

    The adaptive seats are definitely installed in both the driver and passenger seats.

    I may have been wrong in saying that the MSM module is identical no matter which lumbar support (standard, adaptive or massage) is used.

    The adaptive seat is an air bladder so there is no up-down adjustment. Pressing the switch up puts it into automatic operation, pressing the switch down releases all of the air. There is NO memory function for the in-out adjustment of the air bladder! No memory function will mean some extra re-wiring work to install in an existing driver seat with the memory function as all of the leads from the lumbar switch route through the memory module. Not too bad when installing the massage module as you grab power from the in-out switch before the memory module, route it through the lumbar module and back to the memory module. For the adaptive seat you would have to eliminate the memory module from the circuit for all of the lumbar functions. From looking at the schematics it also looks like you will need to remove the ground lead going to the passenger side lumbar switch as the adaptive seat module does not need (and may have a problem) if ground is supplied via the switch (no problem on the driver side as with the memory system there is no ground at the switch). Everything should work, but I'm almost positive you'd be left with some DTCs that pertain to the lumbar position sensors. You also have to supply ignition positive voltage to the adaptive lumbar modules as for some reason they are enabled only with the ignition on. The regular and massage lumbar however are always functional. Fortunately ignition positive is available from the main electrical connector to the seat.

    All-in-all, I think you'll be better off removing the entire seats and swapping covers as it sounds like a very involved wiring job to swap in the adaptive modules. Do check for heated seats. In '99 at least heated seats and the adaptive lumbar were NOT available together, but I think that changed in later years.

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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Mike, I am just going to take the entire seat (or seats I guess). The build date on this car is 12/98, and it does have heated seats

    N*, the seats are the correct color, but the leather has seen better days. I'm going to swap the covers, and I'll take some pictures of the inner workings for you.

  11. #10
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Oh... my... god, my hands are killing me. I didn't realize how many times I'd have to turn the drive shafts to move the seats, and I thought I was only removing one, and they were BOTH all the way back, and had to go all the way forward to access the bolts. .....Next time, memory foam pliers .

    As soon as I got there, it started pouring, so I sat in the donor car for a while. Between that, removing the upholstery, moving the seats, and lugging them all the way out of the yard, I was there for ~3 hours. It would have taken 30 minutes or less if the seats moved. Oh well.

  12. #11
    SwampeastMike is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How to move an unpowered seat?

    I feel for you lugging those seats as they are both heavy and awkward!

  13. #12
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Yes, yes they are. And I now have 5 of them in my living room. Almost feel like getting some computer chair bases and bolting the extra seats onto them, lol.

  14. #13
    STS_Seville_Hunter is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How to move an unpowered seat?

    Usually I bring my 18v cordless impact with me and use it to power things. Shoulda seen peoples face when a Boses system in a '91 was alive!

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