'97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement - Page 3
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by N*Caddy The shop has NO FAULT in this if they were not the ones purchasing (and recommending ...
  1. #31
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N*Caddy
    The shop has NO FAULT in this if they were not the ones purchasing (and recommending in the same time) the struts (there are no adjustments to be made). If they use the original springs in the original location then they are OK.
    Almost. If you service a vehicle, and something's not right when you're done, you figure out the problem, and contact the owner. Not just send it on its way.

  2. #32
    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Compare old strut with new. Side by side. How? Figure that out on your own

  3. #33
    Bob Ross is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by N*Caddy View Post

    Now the front struts on the other hand have a pocket welded on and that's where the spring sits on. So think about it, if the aftermarket strut spring pocket is welded in a different position in respect with the bottom mounting points of the strut, well then you have height issues.
    Basically the height of the car (in the front) is still given by the spring, but the spring is now mounted on the strut and if the length of the strut from the spring pocket to the bottom mounting points is longer than on the original (OEM) strut then you just jacked up the front.
    The shop has NO FAULT in this if they were not the ones purchasing (and recommending in the same time) the struts (there are no adjustments to be made). If they use the original springs in the original location then they are OK.
    Well, when I first contacted the shop, I asked the guy if I could bring the parts. He said I could, but they would not warrantee the parts and I'd have to deal with the manufacturer if anything went wrong with those. They would, however, warrantee the labor. So I guess it depends whether the front struts were installed incorrectly or not.

    Like I said before, the front struts are the Monroe 90011 conversion kit. If they don't fit the car, that means Monroe's website is wrong, RockAuto is wrong, Amazon is wrong, pretty much every other auto parts shop is wrong, and a bunch of people on here are wrong. And if there is a spacing difference, then anyone who's used this strut kit before on a 97 Eldo (or any other car that the kit fits) as an OEM replacement and with original springs would have the same problem, yet I can't find any other complaint of this happening on here, or anywhere else on the web. I HAVE read a post where someone said their overall ride height was increased about 1'' after installing Monroes (F & R), and that would be fine for me, but the nose-high stance that my car currently finds itself in is unacceptable.

    EDIT: I just got off the phone with the shop's head mechanic, and he said the new struts were fine. They compared with the old ones and were identical except the OEMs were gas charged while the Monroes were of a more basic (oil-filled ??) design (don't take that last part as gospel because I might be misquoting him).

    Quote Originally Posted by stoveguyy View Post
    Compare old strut with new. Side by side. How? Figure that out on your own
    I would, but I don't have the old struts. The shop kept them. Don't know if they've still got them. I'll ask when I take the car in on monday.

    EDIT: They don't have them anymore.

  4. #34
    kcd1184 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    I had a complete oem redo of the entire suspension on my ELDO 98 F1 system including springs and compressor. According to the Helms specs, the will be a downward slope(rake) to the front. With the new OEM springs installed, there is 2 1/2inches front and 2 3/4 inches rear gap between painted wheel well and top of tire. And that is not supposed to be adjustable. You can adjust the leveler in back to go up, but I think once you have the weight on the springs the height won't go down with out more weight and that will activate Leveler control

  5. #35
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    The 2 1/2 inch front and 2 2/3 inch rear gap is EXACTLY what my '97 STS has (I am in the garage now, just measured).
    My STS has OEM struts (replaced ~5 years ago) and original springs.

  6. #36
    Bob Ross is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    Thanks for the info. I just measured and I've got 2 1/2 inches in the rear and 4 inches in the front. The head mechanic did say that perhaps there's a problem with the ELC in the rear which is causing the upward slant so they'll check that out. They've also printed out the ride height specs from GM to compare with. Guess we'll see.

  7. #37
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    If the rear was too low, and the front at normal ride height, there would be an "upward slant" and the problem would be the ELC system and sagging rear springs.

    You have an upwards slant, because the rear ride height is correct, and the front is too high.

    It is impossible for the ELC system to increase front ride height.

    You don't have to be familiar with these cars to understand the physics behind that. I think you need to start looking for another shop after they fix this problem.

  8. #38
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    The ELC has minimal (if any) influence to the front ride height.
    If the rear is too high then some (small amount) of the vehicle weight will shift towards the front thus the front will lower a bit (you won't be able to see it by looking at it).
    If the ELC is too low then some of the vehicle weight will move towards the back thus the front will rise a bit (again we are talking about 10" in the rear and 1/16" in the front).
    The key the original springs were installed on the car and there are no spacers and such installed and the distance between the lower spring pocket and the mounting holes are the same between the original struts and the aftermarket ones. I do remember ~2 years ago a member with a red ’96 STS had the same issue after installing some aftermarket struts, not sure the brand (his goal was to lower the car among others).

  9. #39
    Bob Ross is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    So I just got back from the shop. They had the car all of 30 minutes.

    They measured the ride height vs. the GM specs and determined that the rear was near exact, but it's riding between 3/4 of an inch and and inch high in the front. They couldn't find anything wrong with the front. However, they did say that when they installed the rear shocks last week, that the ELC compressor never kicked on, and they had to manually pump air into the system (wish they had told me this last week). I checked the ELC fuse, and that's ok, so it looks like I've got a bad compressor. They said they couldn't fix that, and I'd have to take it to a stealership.

    My new question is how essential is it that I get the ELC fixed? They told me the current sate of my car shouldn't hurt anything, and it wasn't worth worrying about unless I noticed the rear settling. I've never driven with rear seat passengers, and rarely carry anything in the trunk heavier than a load of groceries. With the compressor non-functional, is the rear basically now a closed system and should maintain it's current height, or will air slowly bleed out and settle the rear?

    Still getting no codes. Not sure if a bad compressor is supposed to throw a code or not.

  10. #40
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    Bad rear compressors typically throw a code (almost bought a '00 SLS once with bad rear compressor; can't remember code now) but I don't think it will hurt the car if you don't have the compressor replaced right away. The rear will just sag with any kind of weight back there that the ELC would typically compensate for.

  11. #41
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    Non F45 cars (like the OP's) won't throw a code, the system is not monitored with the data line, is just a simple time delay relay controlling the ELC compressor and exhaust valve.

    To OP, forget about ELC, sure is not working and all this, but you have issues with the front side of the car, so you are barking at the wrong tree.
    Sure there is nothing wrong with the car, heck is better off road, but on the other hand is higher center of gravity so not good at high speeds.
    Now hearing they pumped the system without telling you the compressor is not working (or they can't figure it out), well that's one minus for the shop. I guess is the kind of shop is assuming you just want the wheels to spin and that's it (like 95% of the people).

  12. #42
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    This shop sounds pretty ridiculous. At this point I'd ask them who they'd like to pay to diagnose the problem, or if they're insured.

  13. #43
    Bob Ross is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    Yeah, I'm pretty much done with them. They're too far away anyways. Sucks that they came highly recommended. Oh and the initial issue that caused me to have this work done in the first place (intermittent squeaking in rear suspension) is back. It appears that in the week since I had the new shocks / struts installed, the rear has settled a bit (was too high, now is at spec), but this also brought back the squeak. My guess is that they overcharged the shocks, and the ELC bled off the excess. Now my options are to find a new random shop that may be incompetent and lie to me, take it to the stealership which may be incompetent and lie to me and will charge me a s*&t-ton (but at least is convenient), or do nothing.

    I think at this point I'm going to do nothing.

    Currently, my car is riding a bit under an inch high in the front, at spec in the rear, squeaking in the rear, and may have a bad compressor. The good news is that with the new shocks & struts, the ride quality is much better than it was. I think I'll just drive it for a while and see if the rear drops below spec, and if so, I'll take it to the stealership. No clue what to do about the front. It seems that it is what it is.

    Thanks for all of your help.

  14. #44
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    There's clearly something wrong. I would not ignore it.
    Not only is the center of gravity off, thereby making the car more unstable at speed, but there may be other
    parts that will be effected due to incorrect suspension geometry.

    I'd take it back to the clowns in mechanic's suits and demand they make it right.
    Send the struts back and get a new pair..........something.
    There's got to be a wrong part somewhere.

  15. #45
    Bob Ross is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '97 Eldo - riding high after shock / strut replacement

    Yup, well the clowns are too far away and I can't take any more days off of work for this.

    The stealership's got it as I write this. We'll see what their certified techs have to say.

    I'll post the resolution in case it ends up helping someone else. I will not post what I end up paying them, due to embarrassment (gonna be ex-pen-sive).

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

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