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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Cam Question in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Bottom line history is that this 98 Eldo standard came with a different motor than advertised.( Block and vin don't ...
  1. #1
    kcd1184 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Cam Question

    Bottom line history is that this 98 Eldo standard came with a different motor than advertised.( Block and vin don't match) Been through a lot but the latest is that I my big job guy changed valve cover gaskets. The lobe(?) on the cam for the water pump broke so he found a replacement, using the vin number. His cost. When I got it back it ran good except a very small idle thing, and it kept throwing codes for right and left fuel bank lean. Took it back and he found a couple of vacuum leaks but he said the numbers he was supposed to be setting the car at were all over the place. Replaced the intake gasket and still the "#s"were all over the place. Replaced intake manifold and numbers settled down but still not perfect. Said to drive it for a while and see if the onboard adjusts. It didn't and I still had the idle problem. Left it with him again when I was out of town and when I came back he said that the motor and vin #s don't match Which I knew but forgot to tell him. H e said he was checking to see if there was a difference in the cams . I had a thread at one time about this and I think the general concenses was that when they flip a head gasket issue motor, they normally don't swap the upper stuff.(cam) Am I making any sense? I told him I would talk to you people for you input also.
    Thanks Kent

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  3. #2
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    What exactly is it doing at idle, and what "numbers" is he talking about?

  4. #3
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cam Question

    The intake cams differ between the LD8 and L37 motors if that's what you are getting at. If the original motor was an LD8 and was replaced with an LD8, there is no need to swap anything.

  5. #4
    kcd1184 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cam Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    The intake cams differ between the LD8 and L37 motors if that's what you are getting at. If the original motor was an LD8 and was replaced with an LD8, there is no need to swap anything.
    When I figured out that this motor was not original , with the six or seven digets on the bottom of the block, I know it was the base for a 300hp motor.From what this site told me it is what is on the top side that make the hp difference, and usually you don't change everythingbecause computer system is different. The Idle at stop is not smooth. Sometime almost imperceptible, othertimes almost semirough. Thought it was vacuum related to start with.Said they have checked everything. No codes anymore. If it was cam related you would think it would be consistant all the time(at idle.) It runs better than before I brought it in now, and that was great, except at idle. It didn't have the idle problem before. I called to find out what numbers he was talking about but he is gone till tomorrow so I'll have to wait.

  6. #5
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Question

    so - your VIN Y motor was replaced with a VIN 9 motor at some point in time -

    and during the cam cover gasket replacement -
    the front intake cam was broken -
    and the mechanic replaced it with a VIN Y cam -

    that means the the front bank is running a different - actually correct - cam -
    than the rear bank - that is running an incorrect VIN 9 cam -

    the BEST solution would be to replace the incorrect rear - VIN 9 cam -
    with the correct VIN Y cam - but that is going to be a LOT of additional work -

    the SECOND BEST solution would be to replace the correct VIN Y cam -
    in the front bank - with an incorrect VIN 9 cam -
    so it matches the incorrect VIN 9 cam currently in the rear bank -

    I have never heard of anyone running mismatched intake cams -
    I doubt there will be any "damage" caused by continued use -
    but I can't imagine the engine will ever run evenly or smoothly -
    with mismatched intake cams -

    if it were mine - MINIMALLY -
    I would have the front cam changed to match the rear cam -

  7. #6
    kcd1184 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cam Question

    Quote Originally Posted by basscatt View Post
    so - your VIN Y motor was replaced with a VIN 9 motor at some point in time -

    and during the cam cover gasket replacement -
    the front intake cam was broken -
    and the mechanic replaced it with a VIN Y cam -

    that means the the front bank is running a different - actually correct - cam -
    than the rear bank - that is running an incorrect VIN 9 cam -

    the BEST solution would be to replace the incorrect rear - VIN 9 cam -
    with the correct VIN Y cam - but that is going to be a LOT of additional work -

    the SECOND BEST solution would be to replace the correct VIN Y cam -
    in the front bank - with an incorrect VIN 9 cam -
    so it matches the incorrect VIN 9 cam currently in the rear bank -

    I have never heard of anyone running mismatched intake cams -
    I doubt there will be any "damage" caused by continued use -
    but I can't imagine the engine will ever run evenly or smoothly -
    with mismatched intake cams -

    if it were mine - MINIMALLY -
    I would have the front cam changed to match the rear cam -
    How can we tell if the cams(before the replacement) were vin Y or vin 9? It is possible that they were either one, although the car is programed for Y.The EBTCM functions for the Y programs. Suspension for one

  8. #7
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Question

    Quote Originally Posted by kcd1184 View Post
    How can we tell if the cams(before the replacement) were vin Y or vin 9? It is possible that they were either one, although the car is programed for Y.The EBTCM functions for the Y programs. Suspension for one
    -----------------------------
    I'm just going with the information you supplied -

    the base Eldo came with a "VIN Y" motor -

    you said at some point the engine was changed -
    I know it was the base for a 300hp motor -
    that is a "VIN 9" motor -

    so I am assuming your car now has a VIN 9 motor in it -
    and has be running with the original VIN Y electronics/programming -

    the only physical difference between the two motors is the intake cams -

    The lobe(?) on the cam for the water pump broke
    so he found a replacement, using the vin number.

    if the mechanic ordered an intake cam using your correct VIN -
    and received the cam he ordered -
    he ordered - received - and installed a VIN Y cam -
    on the front bank -

    I would imagine there are part numbers cast into the cams -
    but what they are - or where they are - I don't know -

    maybe Chris from Rippy's can check into that for you -

  9. #8
    kcd1184 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cam Question

    Quote Originally Posted by basscatt View Post
    -----------------------------
    I'm just going with the information you supplied -

    the base Eldo came with a "VIN Y" motor -

    you said at some point the engine was changed -
    I know it was the base for a 300hp motor -
    that is a "VIN 9" motor -

    so I am assuming your car now has a VIN 9 motor in it -
    and has be running with the original VIN Y electronics/programming -

    the only physical difference between the two motors is the intake cams -

    The lobe(?) on the cam for the water pump broke
    so he found a replacement, using the vin number.

    if the mechanic ordered an intake cam using your correct VIN -
    and received the cam he ordered -
    he ordered - received - and installed a VIN Y cam -
    on the front bank -

    I would imagine there are part numbers cast into the cams -
    but what they are - or where they are - I don't know -

    maybe Chris from Rippy's can check into that for you -
    I really appreciate your help. I had to change the EBTCM using the vin # long before this project. Ran great. Wouldn't that favor a Y cam system? Also, if it was a cam problem, why would there be so many variations (even small) to the idle mode, and run perfect the rest of the time?

  10. #9
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Question

    Quote Originally Posted by kcd1184 View Post
    I really appreciate your help. I had to change the EBTCM using the vin # long before this project. Ran great. Wouldn't that favor a Y cam system? Also, if it was a cam problem, why would there be so many variations (even small) to the idle mode, and run perfect the rest of the time?
    ------------------
    I had to change the EBTCM using the vin # long before this project Ran great.
    the Electronic Brake Traction Control Module
    has nothing to do with how the engine runs -

    but YES -
    there would probably be a different one for the Y powered Eldo -
    or the 9 powered Eldo - because of the different suspensions -
    NOT because of the different motors -

    if it was a cam problem,
    why would there be so many variations (even small) to the idle mode,
    and run perfect the rest of the time?


    each individual cylinder firing at idle speed - 650 RPM -
    can be "felt" - to a degree - and has a greater impact
    on how smooth the engine "feels" -

    at higher engine RPM - 2000 RPM -
    most people wouldn't even feel a completely dead cylinder -

  11. #10
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Question

    This is getting more and more convoluted. Do you know which intake cam the mechanic ordered and installed? Did he ordered the right one for the engine, or the right one for the car? Either way you have at least one wrong cam (maybe two). One would probably be even worse than both.


    If it was cam related you would think it would be consistant all the time(at idle.)
    Yes, I would tend to think so.

  12. #11
    kcd1184 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cam Question

    When the cam broke, Dan found a used one for a Y vin motor which he thought the car was. Upon receiving it he saw the old and new cam numbers didn't match. Realized the motor had been changed to a 9 vin. He said he micrometered it and said the only difference was in the width of the lobes. Now he should have researched more but he didn't. Now he is trying to find a reasonable$ 9 vin cam. He also said that the fuel trim #s were what he was referring to being all over the place. I will let you know what happens. So bottom line is that I have a 300hp standand Eldorado when he puts the correct cam back in. When I drove the Eldo back from Florida, I averaged 27.6mpg. Pretty high for an ETC or a STS, which is what the 300hp motors come in. Is that because the tranny is geared for a 275hp motor?

  13. #12
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, slap in a big stereo
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    Re: Cam Question

    Yes ............. mostly. The cams, ECM/PCM programs, and final drive ratio all work together to give the VIN Y engined cars something like a 3 - 5 mpg advantage over the VIN 9 - on the highway during long drives. Both engine setups are pretty close when it comes to in-town and near suburban driving: It still takes low-end gas pedal to start the car moving.

  14. #13
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Question

    yes - you have the vin 9 motor - with the vin 9 intake cams -
    BUT you have the "electronics" and "settings" for a vin Y motor -

    that means you aren't/won't/can't get 300HP -

  15. #14
    98Geldog is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Surprised he's not getting an incorrect gear ratio DTC, that's what happen to me when I put a vin 9 engine in a vin y car.

  16. #15
    basscatt's Avatar
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    Re: Cam Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 98Geldog View Post
    Surprised he's not getting an incorrect gear ratio DTC, that's what happen to me when I put a vin 9 engine in a vin y car.
    ------------------------
    I could see that code appearing if using a vin 9 TRANS in a vin Y car -
    but not with the vin 9 motor

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