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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Intake Valve Problem! in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; We began with a wet/dry compression test. This was done by a reputable local shop using a young tech supervised ...
  1. #46
    Jims_97_ETC's Avatar
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    We began with a wet/dry compression test. This was done by a reputable local shop using a young tech supervised by an older ASE-certified tech. He used too much oil, as shown by dry/wet compression readings of 80/130 on number 8 and 180/285 on numbers 4 and 6. His work was checked by the older tech. The FSM says that the compression range for this engine is 140 psi to 170 psi.

    A week later they did another wet/dry check with the same results and a leakdown test using an OTC Cylinder Leakage Test Kit or equivalent, which pressurizes a cylinder at TDC compression using shop air. There are two gauges, one reading pressure and the other reading flow. A table that comes with the tool uses the two readings to come up with a figure that they call percentage leakdown. At about 100 psi shop air pressure, number 6 has readings that lead to 5% leakdown and number 8 has readings that lead to 78% leakdown on the table.

    The determination of intake versus exhaust is done by listening at the intake and at the tailpipe. There is no audible hiss at the tailpipe for either cylinder but a loud hiss in the intake when shop air is applied to number 8.

    IN THE DEFENSE OF JASPER please note that the economy has been hard on the service business and small businesses in general since 2008, and Jasper, as a premium supplier of remanufactured engines and transmissions, is the type of business that will be most affected because people and businesses always have other options. If times were good and they were selling several Northstars a month, they might have an interest in a freak failure in an out-of-warranty product, but with no flow of Northstar orders to speak of this case is just an irritation and possible liability. I personally believe that Jasper has no responsibility whatsoever for this particular engine because they last saw it six years ago, when it was shipped from a Philly warehouse in July 2006. Their best guess about a leaking injector and a neglected engine tells me more that that is their best guess, albeit with quite possible bias for pride and business reasons, and that they have no idea what cased the problem - but nobody does, really, until we get the head off and even then we may need to tear the head down to tell. Even then, we may not be able to tell. That happens with minor valve leakage cases that are caught early.

    I probably would not have though that anything was wrong with the car other than mild plug fouling at cold idle or some such but the PCM crankshaft wobble measurement started incrementing the miss counter for number 8 and eventually turned on the MIL. The engine starts, runs, and performs quite well and has no oil, gas mileage, or coolant problems. If some fourth-owner type had the car and saw he would probably ignore it until emissions inspection time, then try to get the emissions inspection while avoiding the repair and probably end up scrapping the car. But the rest of the car is in the same fine shape as the motor so in fact the car is worth far more than book value that is based on the "average" 1997 Eldorado out there, which is to say, a beater - something tacitly assumed in all the drive-by posts until a day or two ago.
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  2. #47
    BodybyFisher is offline Guest
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    The car is freaking amazing that is all I can say. The miss only shows itself at idle, above idle its gone. At highway speeds nothing. Very odd indeed. I did notice that the intensity of the miss varies while you sit at a light.

    Maybe we have a cracked valve here, a misalignment between the guide and the valve seat, a bad seat or a bad guide only time will tell.

    Thanks Chris Heath for your input and efforts
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  3. #48
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    We will have ALL the answers in a few days
    as the what caused this problem
    and I will report the answers here

    please do -
    I - and everyone else who has posted here -
    are anxious to discover what caused the problem -
    and NO - I'm not being facetious -
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  4. #49
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    For a couple of fellas who claim to be of mature age you fight like a couple of little girls. Then again maybe you bicker like a couple old ladies. Either way stop acting like women and man up. Sheesh.
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  5. #50
    rewindsts is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    Sounds like the valve isn't seating
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  6. #51
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by rewindsts View Post
    Sounds like the valve isn't seating
    rewindsts - well, yes, I'll go with that. The $64 question is *why* the valve isn't seating. The first thing I did was change the plug wires because I had a similar problem a few years ago and it turned out to be the plug wires but nothing changed this time and the plug wires that came out of the car were top-notch and they had not failed. The coils and plugs were changed, too, just for good luck. The appearance of the plug for number 8 was OK but the insulator noticeably darker than the others. Then we did a compression test and found 75 psi in number 8. The first guess was a piece of carbon in the valve seat, so I tried putting a quart of top-end cleaner in it and running it for 300 miles at 70-80 mph on the freeways with no effect. That's when we did the leakdown test and determined that we had an intake valve leaking. The purpose of the leakdown test was to eliminate the rings so we could decide whether to pull the head for a valve job or just scrap the car. So here we are, beginning a valve job.
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  7. #52
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    RewindSTS, thank you, I agree
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jims_97_ETC
    My "butt dino" in these cases was the Mustang 5.0 HO or Accura V6 or <your favorite poseur car that bullies four-cylinder cars here> beside me at the time, which kindly gave me the luxury of experimenting with shift points.
    Wait. So you're saying that you gathered accurate HP gain/loss data, from racing random cars, with different drivers, in an uncontrolled street environment?...

    In the two weeks that I tolerated 30W-30 from "free" oil changes from a dealer, it would not even *reach* 7,000 RPM.
    Even if you ignore the fact that 5W-30 and 10W-30 are essentially identical viscosity at operating temp, you'd have to put a VERY thick oil into an engine before it even begins to effect redline.

    With 10W-30 dino oil (remember, the factory-recommended fill is 5W-30 dino oil) the power near or above redline isn't usable, you get more power with a shift below redline.
    So your butt dyno not only gives peak HP, but power curve too? Must be an advanced model.

    My "OLM" was the color and odor of the dipstick, and it did better with 5W-30 Mobil 1 than any other oil I tried.
    So I assume it was darker? Seeing as synthetics have a higher detergent level than dino oils. Doesn't tell you much about the oils condition though.

    What contaminants do you smell for? Can you sense microscopic debris? Or is there some other method you use to determine the oils ability to lubricate, using just your olfactory system?

    If you can answer any of this with actual fact, or recorded data, instead of just calling people trolls, and leaving us to rely on your claims, the debate would be over.
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  9. #54
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    MoistCabbage: Read the post. All your questions are answered and your points in your flame are addressed there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jims_97_ETC
    My "butt dino" in these cases was the Mustang 5.0 HO or Accura V6 or <your favorite poseur car that bullies four-cylinder cars here> beside me at the time, which kindly gave me the luxury of experimenting with shift points.
    Wait. So you're saying that you gathered accurate HP gain/loss data, from racing random cars, with different drivers, in an uncontrolled street environment?...

    In the two weeks that I tolerated 30W-30 from "free" oil changes from a dealer, it would not even *reach* 7,000 RPM.
    Even if you ignore the fact that 5W-30 and 10W-30 are essentially identical viscosity at operating temp, you'd have to put a VERY thick oil into an engine before it even begins to effect redline.

    With 10W-30 dino oil (remember, the factory-recommended fill is 5W-30 dino oil) the power near or above redline isn't usable, you get more power with a shift below redline.
    So your butt dyno not only gives peak HP, but power curve too? Must be an advanced model.

    My "OLM" was the color and odor of the dipstick, and it did better with 5W-30 Mobil 1 than any other oil I tried.
    So I assume it was darker? Seeing as synthetics have a higher detergent level than dino oils. Doesn't tell you much about the oils condition though.

    What contaminants do you smell for? Can you sense microscopic debris? Or is there some other method you use to determine the oils ability to lubricate, using just your olfactory system?

    If you can answer any of this with actual fact, or recorded data, instead of just calling people trolls, and leaving us to rely on your claims, the debate would be over.
    Now that your flame has been shown to be a knee-jerk without reading the post you are replying to, you can go away. Unless you really are here to encourage the toleration of trolls on Cadillac Owners.

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    Ranger, Submariner409 - please delete this Topic/thread.

    ----------

    I've checked and there is apparently no way that a user can cancel his membership in Cadillac Owners, or delete all posts or whatever. The next best thing is to cancel all subscriptions as they appear in the e-mail inbox, including the one to this topic.
    OO
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  10. #55
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    Jim,

    what's the big deal?
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership - family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946
    We offer all forum members discounts on parts and freight - e: parts@rippyautomotive.com ph: 800-RIPPY-22
    <-- insert standard boilerplate about posts not necessarily representing my employer, etc -->
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  11. #56
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

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  12. #57
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    I came here to support my friend as he was being inundated with unhelpful flames, trolls, personal attacks and off topic criticism. We didn't need to come here. I joined this board in 2003 as you can see and I have 147 posts here. On a cadillac forum where I have been a staff member I have close to 21,000 posts and I help members all over he world and ship parts, engines and transmissions to them when they are in need. I have been sought out by members all over the world (not bragging, its a fact). Forums like this are for helping, not for nit picking someone's style, length of their posts or their approach to a problem. I had an Aunt when I was a child once tell me, "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all".

    None of us has all of the answers, we are all always learning. I am continually prompted to read the TOS on this forum and I will read it to see what is permitted. I can tell you that on our forum this type of nit picky, little girl non helpful garbage is not permitted. This board comes across as high and mighty, but it does not adhear to it own guidelines and allows members like basscatt to overrun members looking for help and no one actually stands up and stops it. Quite frankly, I know Ranger a long time and I am shocked knowing him that he 1) comes here and 2) does not raise the level of interaction here, it runs like a frat house and its the reason why I only have 147 posts here many of which I made when chevelle/bbob was posting (a true knowledgable gentleman).

    Thank you to the few members who have tried to help and keep this thread cordial. I or Jim will contact you directly and let you know what the result is of our surgery.

    Listen good luck with your frat house, I am done here. My leaving here is the result of a lack of oversight on trolls, behavior and the lack of comraderie. Nothing has changed here in all the years I have come here I am disappointed and won't return. Try enforcing your TOS, (we) I don't put up with this where we come from trolls and irratating nit pickers are banned, now I know where they end up.

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  13. #58
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    This is ridiculous ...

    1) the smilie rodnok posted is built into the forum
    2) i have no clue what you mean by "FINGER"

    this thread could possibly win some sort of award for the most benign thread to freak someone out and piss them off

    ....

    while you and I are professionals you can't expect everyone else to be held to our standards
    lighten up a bit and don't take everything so personally
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership - family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946
    We offer all forum members discounts on parts and freight - e: parts@rippyautomotive.com ph: 800-RIPPY-22
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jims_97_ETC
    MoistCabbage: Read the post. All your questions are answered and your points in your flame are addressed there.

    Now that your flame has been shown to be a knee-jerk without reading the post you are replying to, you can go away. Unless you really are here to encourage the toleration of trolls on Cadillac Owners.
    Um, I did read the post, that's why I replied to it. There are no answers, and no valid information in it.

    I haven't really paid much attention to this thread, I'm curious of what caused the problem, and I didn't plan on posting much, if anything in it. But after reading that last post, I couldn't resist replying

    My post was not intended to offend, it wasn't a flame, and at this point in the thread, I really don't consider it off topic. It is a bit on the sarcastic side, but that just fits in with the silly theories on viscosity. You provided no real answers, that'll keep any future readers of this thread from mistaking the posts on viscosity as real information.

    Again, no intention of offending anyone, no intention of trolling. I hope the problem is relatively cheap and easy to fix.

    ....And no, I'm not going away.

    ----------
    As far as the emoticons are concerned:

    I rarely use the full version of Cadillacforums, but last time I replied from a computer, there was an Icon that brought up a list of emoticons. There were quite a few that could be considered offensive. Not sure how they all got there, and not saying that they're "ok", but they're apparently acceptable to post.
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  15. #60
    rewindsts is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Intake Valve Problem!

    you might not need a valve job, take the head and pour some parts cleaner in the ports and let soak and blow out, these heads are strong but carbon build up can get pretty instense. Not sure of your level of expertise but if needed have a expert lookat them. I had an old northstar enngine that was so built up i poured, and cleaned, and took each lifter check and polished with scotchbrite and 400 sandpaper and the heads are working like brand new, did not remove valves. Soak all those lifter parts clean and re oil. Its all time vs money. good luck
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