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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Possible transmission trouble in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; ...
  1. #31
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Update....
    While I was away in the Carolinas (by the way Chris I even drove by Wilmington last Sunday), Jake had the car to take care of the engine reseal, the plan was to have the transmission sent to the shop I discussed with for a complete rebuild.
    I was the only one telling that I have a transmission issue, both Jake and the tranny shop said that is not transmission. Jake took the engine out and was convinced is a combination (or an either/or deal) between the TC and the lower timing chain tensioner. I must say even I was almost got convinced that the chain is the culprit.
    Well Jake did a absolutely FABULOUS job with the engine, he changed all the seals except the head gaskets. The heads were not disconnected from the block, everything there is still original. Indeed Jake was right, that bottom timing chain was worn all the way to the metal (pictures courtesy of Jake):



    So he changed everything in the timing part (tensioners, chains):



    In the end after a good cleanup, all seals (including crossover) new TC and “Y” pipe, harmonic balancer the engine runs like brand new. He found a crack in the EGR tube, that was explaining why the engine in the last year or so kind of sounded a bit loud (even with new mufflers). Now truly can’t tell if the engine is ON while stopped at a traffic light is that quiet and that smooth. I had this slight shake on idle since always (changes everything in ignition), now is all gone. I remember my father had a saying, if you place a glass of water full to the brim on an idling Cadillac engine won’t spill a drop. Well I can tell you one thing for sure; he was right as the engine runs now. You can’t tell that the engine was ever out, apart for 2-3 plastic clips (that I also broke before and I have plenty spares) noting was broken, scratched bent or damaged in any way.

    As you see, he painted the valve covers (I didn’t even asked for -nice touch).

    So engine runs absolutely great, however…well I was right, the whine is from the transmission. Because I needed the car bad for work, I took it to drive it for a couple of weeks, then we have to take the engine out again to send the transmission to the shop. I spoke again with the shop and Tuesday AM I am going for the 4-th test (with yet another specialist) to assess the noise. Now is quite loud and it does it even when is really warm, definitely something is on its last leg in there. It does it now even in between the shifts, if I slightly accelerate (I mean just barely) you start hearing a faint whine. In fact today as I was in the garage with the engine idling, I could hear (now since the engine is so silent) a very slight start of a whine. Clearly is coming from the transmission area, is somewhere in the driver’s side a bit behind where the TC housing is. This time I am more than confident that the transmission shop mechanics will have absolutely no problem hearing it, now is not just obvious for my ears, anybody can hear it. Yet still the transmission performs flawlessly. I do have this sensation that is a bit sluggish in reverse (when cold) but maybe is just me.

  2. #32
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    Torque converter?

  3. #33
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Probably the front pump if I had to take a shot. Usually if the pump is noisy there will be other issues internal. A bad TC can be noisy but you'll have engagement or slippage issues also. There prob is a test port to check the pressure, but I have not on tested a Caddy trans since the 80's.

  4. #34
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Torque Converter was changed few days ago, made NO DIFFERENCE (I never ever suspected the TC, everybody seems to mention it first for some reason).
    The Torque Converter will make noise all the time and especially under load and you can test that by shifting in gear holding the brakes and getting the revs into the 1500 RPM. Mine is not doing that, is only when shifting (starts just before and ends 2-3 seconds later), it also does it under acceleration (started recently) and under heavy engine brake. Also does it in PARK!!!! if I rev it past 2000 RPM. If cold (recently) you can hear a faint whine while idling. It could be hydraulic (pump starvation) or could be a bearing. Is there something in the transmission that spins (or engages) only while shifting? It also has to be directly linked with the engine (as is 100% dependent on the engine RPM, and the higher the torque the louder it is). Clearly is not something that is engaged all the time and clearly is something that is controlled to stay on during shifting (directly linked with the engine RPM).
    The more I listen the more I lean towards mechanical noise than hydraulic noise…at lower RPM it seems to be a bit too low frequency to be hydraulic…say I am 49% hydraulic vs. 51% bearing/mechanical. I can tell for sure if not final drive (wheel speed) related, and is sounds to be in the driver's side of the transmission (not far from where the left driveshaft starts).
    Actually is not 100% dependent with the RPM, is 100% dependent with the RPM - the slippage in the Torque Converter, basically the input shaft RPM. I asked the tranny guy if that could be the drive chain and he told me, that is a different sound. Since I have 0% derivability issues I would also lean towards a bearing more than a pump…
    TechII indicates shifting times in the 400ms.

  5. #35
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    New development.
    Last night I was doing a 50 miles run (mostly HWY) and as soon as I got her up to 7x MPH it started to slip.
    I have never experienced transmission issues (at least not automatic transmission) and I didn't know what to expect. It was EXACTLY like the fuel cut off when you reach top speed. Only that instead of the RPM to go down a bit then come up again and so on, this time the RPMs were going up a bit then coming back to normal. At that speed (~74MPH) the RPM was ~2700, I noticed when the car started to jerk the RPMs were going up close to 3000 then back to ~2700 and so on with a ~2 seconds frequency. Just to make sure I put it in neutral and revved the engine to little over 3000 RPM and it had no problem keeping the RPM high. This means the transmission was letting go (so the RPMs were going up) then grabbing again.
    This brings me back to the hydraulic noise rather than bearing.
    Needles to say after I noticed that I just nursed the car home avoiding as much as possible accelerating or breaking (so I don't have to accelerate again). My main concern was not to overheat the transmission.
    So if there was any doubt before, now is 100% clear the issue is in transmission. Now the whine is permanent, in between shifts is not loud, it sounds like you would drag a bush over cymbals (when is not loud).

  6. #36
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Sounds like you're in for a trans rebuild, at least it didn't throw a chunk out while you were out.

  7. #37
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    If anything, the transmission will get you where you want to go even in extreme conditions. When mine acted up I was about 20-30 miles away from home, and I only had 2nd gear working. The trans fluid was shooting up through the vent tube, but I had no problem making all the way home in 2nd. Though, it was evident that it needed replacement, so I didn't have any faith on that transmission at that time, making me do whatever with the transmission.

    That tensioner issue is a great find (I believe I've seen this before), though it's sad to hear that the noise was indeed the transmission.

  8. #38
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    FINALY!!!
    Today I had the 4-th test drive with the transmission shop with yet another specialist and this time they rather embarrassingly admitted I WAS RIGHT all alone, it is indeed the transmission. Well in this stage the way it acts even my late grandma would have figure it out. I was arguing with them since August.
    They kind of suspect the same thing as I do the noise is a pump cavitation. They say is because of derbies/blockages, I say is not that, I say is an internal leak, as the temperature goes up something expands and close (or reduces) the leak.
    At this point they recommended a new transmission as preferred option, let’s see what GM sells one for, I am still in the number matching side...

  9. #39
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    GM sells transmissions for around $2200 if I remember correctly, with a three year 100000 mile warranty.you can have installed at any shop GM doesn't have to install it to honor the warranty.

  10. #40
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    After many months of having the issue, I took the FSM and read carefully the part about the transmission.
    I end up to the conclusion that there is NOTHING wrong with the transmission.
    My problem is the oil pump stack (plate or assembly), basically I have play in there (one of the pumps) and that’s what makes the horrible wining noise.
    I pinpointed the whine EXACTLY underneath the cover where the pumps are, there is no doubt in my mind that is the culprit. The pumps still maintain the pressure (for now) everything works fine (for now), it explains why I have no issues with transmission fluid, no debris and such in the pan.
    So all I need to do is take the engine out (this is where Jake comes into the equation) to get access to the tranny and replace the whole pump assembly. I will not bother fixing the pumps, just replace with brand new. Then while we are there we may as well replace the TCC solenoid. All my problems are skin deep in the tranny just underneath the cover behind the TC. It makes sense if you think, when you shift the line pressure is increased (just before the shift and a bit after), the load on the pump changes, also the pump is directly connected to the TC so is engine speed dependent, everything comes together.

    The “slippage” I experienced weeks ago was actually a loose main ground to the engine, once I fixed that all is good. Then the “slippage” I experienced at cold startups, is normal for cold weather.

    We were planing to get this done for some time now but various unexpected things happened to Jake, so the plan is now to get this done next week (Tuesday-ish or so). He is ordering the whole pump assembly.
    Is true in the last week or so basically every day I was expecting the tranny to give up. The whine is now constant, fairly loud even in between the shifts. I am basically on borrowed time, I hope we get to it as soon as possible. I reduced the car usage to the absolute minimum, is hard because I need the car every day…

  11. #41
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Might consider replacing the TC as well since you will be into it that far. I know GM recommends replacing it when doing the P1860 seal.

  12. #42
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Jake already replaced TC when the engine was out first time.

  13. #43
    stoveguyy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    I got a 104k mile used trans for $125. U need to consider newer, lower mile, good used parts sometimes. And trans is 3yrs newer too.

  14. #44
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    I was considering a brand new transmission as a worst case scenario, but now I understand what is wrong with mine. I was always uncomfortable with replacing the original transmission idea, I just want numbers matching.

  15. #45
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    Re: Possible transmission trouble

    Has your engine been studded? Oh, sorry just went back and read post#31

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