Vacuum & other things - 1996 Eldorado - Page 2
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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Vacuum & other things - 1996 Eldorado in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; No clue on the CKP resistance....
  1. #16
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    No clue on the CKP resistance.

  2. #17
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    i really think that car hates me...

    get home (driving a different car now), pop the hood and just go and measure resistances at the icm connector. one ckp is 1200 ohm and the other one endless. so i say to myself: great, easy thing. crawl under there and find one of the connectors hanging around. look for the ckp, sonehow find it and like an hour later after fishing around in that oily area i get it connected, almost breaking my hand. get up, measure resitance again, and it turns out that both lines have endless resistance!!! car won't start either... get under there again, look for accidently disconnected things, found nothing. disconnect the previously connected ckp, measured just the resistance of one line, seems to work. connect it again (getting faster at that, lol). nothing, no spark and endless resistance at both of them. also get the message that the vehicle speed sensor has a problem, something i already had yesterday after accidently disconnecting it. but i find it connected now (and it worked after re connecting yesterday, no message anymore). so i really think that there is a problem with the upcoming lines. gues i'll have to check tomorrow, this is gonna be fun, since there is literally no space to work on that. don't think there's a chance that somehow the other ckp got screwed not touching it, is there? well, enough for today... i'll keep posting on progress, hopefully it doesn't get too nasty...

  3. #18
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    update: checked cables yesterday, all 4 are ok from icm up to where the harness splits into the pcm (on top of the transmission). from there to the sensors things are getting ugly, as i could feel, stuff seems to have gotten too hot and partially carbonized. anyhow, checked cable resistance from the ckp plugs to icm, the upper ckp lines are ok (at the moment of measuring) and from the lower ckp one line is ok, the other one isn't. funny thing here is that the lower one was disconnected, so the upper one definitely worked, but now i'm getting endless resistance on this one (measured at icm plug)... could be that the lines were just making contact at the moment of measuring, or that the sensor got bad all of the sudden...
    now that's what i'll do this weekend: take off the oil filter adapter, change both sensors and their cables, and check for any more burnt cables and change them. also will put something heat resistant around the harness there, seems to be an odd place anyways to put it, ways too hot for cable without further protection...

    as an alternative to taking off the oil filter adapter i was thinking of taking off the engine mount block and the holder in front of the header. would the engine try to fall down doing that?

  4. #19
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    Yes - the entire engine/transmission will rock forward. In order to prevent that, get the front of the car up on jackstands, remove the lower air deflector. You may find out that removing the oil filter adapter is all you need. If you're set on removing the front (left center) motor mount, use a 12" long piece of 2 X 10 lumber as a pad and support the engine by careful jacking under the oil pan. Jack only until you see the slightest bit of engine "lift".

    If you break, lose or there are missing plastic retainers for the air deflector, you can find spares at the Help ! racks in any large parts store, or they're much cheaper in quantity at a Fastenal store. Fastenal carries all sorts of plastic retainers and trim clips/pop rivets - a LOT cheaper than dealers or parts stores.

  5. #20
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    thanks sub, that's what i thought... yeah, i guess i'll get along removing just the oil filter adapter, although since i also will have to do cable work, would have been nice to have space to get to things.

    air deflectors are already taken off, and if i remember right there is one or two retainers missing, so i'll have a look at the help section of the autozone over here. fastenal has no business (yet) in mexico, so i'll have to stick with az, the only available us chain regarding spare parts...

    thanks again, will maintain you updated. btw, my chilton just arrived, makes me happy

  6. #21
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    Rats !!!! I hate to burst your bubble, but the Chilton's is far, far too generic for your car. Go back to work and locate a real GM/Helm shop/service manual on ebay - they're on there all the time for $20 - $60, but $200 new from www.helminc.com.


    EDIT: FWIW, in checking the Helm pricing for this ^^^ 1996 Eldorado I discovered that the new service manual pricing for many Cadillac models has now risen to $200 or so. Do your eBay homework...........

  7. #22
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    as an alternative to taking off the oil filter adapter i was thinking of taking off the engine mount block and the holder in front of the header.
    The oil filter adapter is FAR easier.

    EDIT: FWIW, in checking the helm pricing for this ^^^ 1996 Eldorado I discovered that the new service manual pricing for many Cadillac models has now risen to $200 or so.
    WOW! That's one hell of a jump from $135. Talk about inflation.

  8. #23
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    thanks guys for your posts! yeah, i know, chilton is not the best out there, but among the best i can get (find that haynes is even more generic for that car). wouldn't wanna spend a lot of money until really needed. saw the manuals for my car on amazon for something like $140, at least there i know that they'll do international shipping...

    got some progress to report, doesn't look all too bad... first things first: went to a chevrolet parts shop today (they sell oem parts on license agreement) and tried to get the sensors. not so good news, like $80 each and a month delivery time, nothing on stock anywhere near. searched around a bit, and after some good deals but no international shipping i found the ac delco ones at amazon for $24 each. with express shipping (like 2 weeks) it summed up to $75, not bad for both sensors i'd say, satisfied with my purchase. alternative would have been autozone ones, but i didn't like the idea, too many negative opinions (i have to admit that 80% of my spare parts are duralast on my cars, since nothing else is easily available).

    got home, jacked the car and took off the oil filter adapter. 30 minutes job, read somewhere (in this forum i guess) from a doctor doing that in 30 hours total, glad not to have done it in that time... guess it had to do with not having the right tools... then loosened all the plugs on that harness and pulled it out as far as possible to the left side. figured that heat did it's work, cables are melted together at some points. and finally fount the point of failure: a twisted together cable with high resistance, moving it would give conductvity. actually pretty close to the plug, glad not to have started tearing things apart on the upper harness first. i'm talking about the lower plug here, but the upper must have the same issue, since sometimes the resistance on the sensor is ok (measured at icm) and sometimes not. wouldn't think the sensor is failing. what i didn't check yet is the lower sensor itself, first i'll change burnt cables and put things back in place and then i'll worry about the sensor, at least one is known to work, fair enough until the two new ones arrive.

    took some pics to make this more graphic, one of the jacked car and one more of the faulty plug...

    thanks again guys, i'll keep you updated. tomorrow i'm not gonna work on that, will go to a metallica concert
    friday is beer day, but on saturday i'll make progress, that's for sure!

    2012-08-01 20.01.51c.jpg
    2012-08-01 20.02.03c.jpg

  9. #24
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    Good work, good detective work, good luck !!!

    I do NOT envy the working conditions: Been there, done that. 3 year tour of Navy staff duty in Naples, Italy years ago - had a '65 Chevelle Malibu SS 327/350 over there - only place to work/oil change/brakes was up on the curb on a crowded street.

  10. #25
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    That lower picture is a CKP sensor? Looks different than the ones I just replaced in my '03. I guess there was a physical change in 2000.

  11. #26
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    thanks sub, i'm pretty sure you have some nice memories on that time in the old world...
    actually i didn't have found anything yet that i couldn't repair in that parking lot hehe. just that my house starts to look more and more like a tool shop. when that caddy is done i guess i'll have to clean up a bit and store all the tools 'n stuff.

    That lower picture is a CKP sensor? Looks different than the ones I just replaced in my '03. I guess there was a physical change in 2000.
    it's just the connector for the lower ckp ranger, i pulled it out to the left side, you may see the radiator hose there. didn't take off the ckp's (yet), since most likely they are ok and the new ones arrive in like two weeks. right now i'll just change cables that aren't good anymore. actually you may see the twisted part with the black tape around it, like 2 inches to the left from the plug, that's where it looses contact.

  12. #27
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    Ahh, that "splains" it.

  13. #28
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    update:
    repaired cables and connected everything back together. tried to start up, nothing. read codes, nothing on pck's. so i went out to a junkyard and bought an icm, which i thought must be bad. changed the icm, nothing.

    then i thought: let's just connect one ckp... fires right up (well, almost). checked resistance and voltage on the ckp's, both around 1200 ohm, one gives like 1.2V cranking, the other 0.7V (forgot which was which). so i'd say the lower ckp is junk, since only connecting the upper the car starts right up.

    will get one on monday, also from junkyard until my new ones arrive. should help meanwhile for testing purposes... not so easy to diagnose things, since both ckp have a good resistance, and only connecting the upper one the car starts, connecting both it doesn't, weird... seems as if the pcm doesn't detect failure on the lower one, but appearently it sends crappy data.

    started raining now, so i'll go on later or tomorrow checking the fans, since there is a funny wiring and i have to switch them on manually with a switch at the kick panel. as far as i could already check what's going on the pcm switches ground correctly, both stages. didn't find the right diagram yet, have 3 of them, all slightly different but not what i see down there. so i'll just go and figure out how it's supposed to work and connect stuff like that. wish me luck

  14. #29
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    happy, my ckp's arrived today! will put them in on saturday and see how things work after that. right now it's running like crap, almost 0 acceleration, high idle and not so easy startup (don't drive it around though...). however, main reason for my post is a different thing:

    since it heated up quite a lot by just a short test drive i thought i might check head gaskets. so after searching around a bit i started to like block testers, blue liquid, you soak air above hot coolant through it and check if color changes. but... i just can't get to it, no providers locally and also az can't get it imported. then i thought a bit further and tried to find out what's in there. msds says sodium carbonate, and distilled water. well, that's not blue... so i searched some more hours and found out this (might be helpful for somebody sometime):

    apparently that blue stuff detects CO in the coolant. great, but how? it's not a direct indicator, that doesn't exist in liquid form, only as electronic device. so it must be an indicator for the solution of CO, which is a mild acid. actually it will detect more CO2 than CO, since it is easier to dissolve and there is a huger amount of CO2 in the exhaust gas than CO. so it made click, and i got it: it's a liquid ph indicator! but which? it's blue and in that phase it contains sodium carbonate, which makes it a base. so after further research i found the most likely one: thymol blue, which matches the exact color scale of block tester fluid, blue to green to yellow.

    ok, i could go ahead. also couldn't find a source for thymol blue easily, but that's not so bad. since i have an aquarium i also have a ph test kit, which uses bromothymol, quite similar to thymol blue, just slightly dephased color scale. so i put 2 drops into a glass and filled up with some fresh coolant, just to see if it was neutral or acid. it's neutral. went out to the car, same test with coolant out of the tank, also neutral. fired her up and let her warm up, checked again the coolant, still neutral. so in my opinion no headgasket leak, i'm very happy about that, since i wouldn't have liked to do a headgasket job, timeserting and that stuff...

    well, point here is that a block test kit costs about $40, a ph kit for aquariums like $10, or less. just getting the ph test liquid in a drugstore should be even less expensive.

    anyhow, no guarantees that what i did actually works, but it is really likely to do so.

  15. #30
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    Re: vacuum & other things

    Very clever - necessity is the mother of invention.

    Hopefully the two CKP's will cure the hard starts and poor performance. Somebody - CKP's - the pre-2000 engines. Are the two CKP electrical connectors the same plug that could be mistakenly swapped ? (2000 and later are different plugs) It DOES make a big difference which CKP sends a signal from each sector of the crankshaft reluctor wheel.

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