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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Hi everyone, Thanks for all your input. I removed the dash pad carefully and sourced the correct pins and wires ...
  1. #16
    TINKNOCKER is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    Hi everyone, Thanks for all your input. I removed the dash pad carefully and sourced the correct pins and wires from the C1 connector. It was not hard to remove the pad but defrost grille will never go back in perfectly due to warpage ( I'm ok with that haha). Soldered the correct resistor in place and replaced the pins in the proper location. Restored the pins from C202 connector after removing the resistor that got the car started the last time it was completely disabled. That resistor still shows 2.36Kohms by the way. Matches VATS 8 key exactly. All wiring is now eliminated as the cause of the issue. Pins with resistor are firmly seated and have good contact. Battery was disconnected for 4 hours during repair and other distractions. Car starts and runs again. Currently have no codes so assuming the problem was in the wires between the C202 and C1 on IPC. Hoping this will be a permenant bypass, not going to rip everything apart to change the wires. Steal it, PLEASE! haha. Should have followed N*s advice the 1st time! Now on to the next issues. Love the car but apparently someone tried to do repairs without the benefit of the FSM and has butchered some things up. Work in progress and into it for more then it is worth but now can drive the hell out of it again! Thanks again!

    P.S. Have 97 resistors left for VATS 8 key with 2.37Kohm value. Was cheaper to buy 100 then just 1. Anyone may have one for the cost of an envelope and stamp, just PM me.

  2. #17
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    awesome... congrats and thanks for the follow-up


    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
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  3. #18
    TINKNOCKER is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    One last random thought on this matter for those to come after it is closed. I cannot find anywhere in the FSM to support this, but I believe that the "theft system problem car may not restart" message combined with the B2710 or B2711 code has a cycle counter. Allows you to start the car only so many times once codes are set and are still shown as current. Just a theory, but I resurrected mine twice fom complete disable but it eventually disabled again until the bypass was installed at C1 pins A10 and B10. I will defer to those who have far more caddy experience if I am mistaken. I also wonder if by passing the IPC antitheft at S202 setting will disable the anti theft but was afraid to try. Could just be too much time spent in the FSM lately for my own good. Thanks Again Folks!

  4. #19
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    the theft system stuff is kind of obtuse and not fully documented in the FSM purposefully (i think)
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership & Official Saab Service Center
    ~~ Family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946 ~~
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  5. #20
    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    I never tested, but I know for a fact that if you uncheck the RSS installed option all it does is hiding the RSS codes if you have (basically is skipping RSS), yet is still showing all the errors (like service stability and such). So all you do is just hide the menu, yet everything still works.

  6. #21
    winks is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    Quote Originally Posted by TINKNOCKER View Post
    Hi everyone, Thanks for all your input. I removed the dash pad carefully and sourced the correct pins and wires from the C1 connector. It was not hard to remove the pad but defrost grille will never go back in perfectly due to warpage ( I'm ok with that haha). Soldered the correct resistor in place and replaced the pins in the proper location........
    TINKNOCKER,
    Great thread. As I mentioned in the other thread you just responded to, I've got what I believe the same problem in a 2002 ETC.

    I've got a pretty good understand of what's needed to bypass, have already measured the resistance (for me, key #7 ~1.87K OHMs ) and soldered resistors up to match.

    Initially I tried to access the wire from underneath (after removing the lower panel on the driver's side) but couldn't find the correct wire. After reading this thread, it sounds like I should tackle this by removing the dash instead? After that, I would be soldering it in at the C1 connector, connecting pins A10 & B10. Is that correct?

    The car is not local to me right now and I need to be as prepared as possible when I attempt this. This might sound dumb but, is the "dash panel" the entire dash at the top?

    Can you tell me exactly how to remove this panel and find/identify the C1 connector?

    Thanks for any additional info you can give me on this!
    Steve

  7. #22
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    The IPC has 3 connectors; C1 connector is the one in the middle.

    1. Go to a junkyard and cut a connector with a 6’-8’ pigtail harness attached. The connectors you are looking for are: HU, Climate Control, RIM, INFO module, CD Changer (few examples).
    2. Remove 2 20 AWG wires with the crimp pin attached (as shown in the picture below).
    3. Find a ¼ or ½ W resistor with the resistance matching your VAT (measure the key pallet resistance and match that value measured from side to side of the key blade).

    4. Solder the 2 wires to the resistor as indicated in the picture below.
    5. Slide over the resistor a 2 inch long heatshrink tube in such way to cover well the soldered joints and the resistor. Use a heat gun (even held above the stove should work) to shrink the tube (make sure is tight).
    6. Remove the dashboard cover to access the IPC.
    7. Disconnect C1 connector and remove the A10 and B10 wires from the connector. Insulate the wires with electrical tape, bed the wires back and use electrical tape warped around to hold the wires to the harness.
    8. Insert the bypass in the C1 connector pins A10 and B10.
    9. Reconnect the C1 connector and install back the dashboard cover.
    10. This should conclude your temporary VAT bypass.


    An as I posted before this is (on the schematic) what you do.


    Here are all the VAT values (and the tolerances):
    1) .402 KOhm (.386KOhm-.438KOhm)
    2) .523 KOhm (.502 KOhm -.564 KOhm)
    3) .681 KOhm (.650 KOhm -.728 KOhm)
    4) .887 KOhm (.850 KOhm -.942 KOhm)
    5) 1.130 KOhm (1.085 KOhm -1.195 KOhm)
    6) 1.470 KOhm (1.411 KOhm -1.549 KOhm)
    7) 1.870 KOhm (1.795 KOhm -1.965 KOhm)
    8) 2.370 KOhm (2.275 KOhm -2.485 KOhm)
    9) 3.010 KOhm (2.890 KOhm -3.150 KOhm)
    10) 3.740 Kohm (3.590 KOhm -3.910 KOhm)
    11) 4.750 KOhm (4.560 KOhm -4.960 KOhm)
    12) 6.040 KOhm (5.798 KOhm -6.302 KOhm)
    13) 7.500 KOhm (7.200 KOhm -7.820 KOhm)
    14) 9.530 KOhm (9.149 KOhm -9.931 KOhm)
    15) 11.800 KOhm (11.320 KOhm -12.290 KOhm)


    There is a way to see the digital value of the VAT resistor as red by IPC. Follow this link to see how.

    *This temporary fix works in any ‘96-’97 Cadillac Seville, ‘96-’99 Cadillac Deville and ‘96-’02 Cadillac Eldorado

  8. #23
    winks is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    Thanks *NCaddy for the detailed writeup. I've seen some of the pics before before not the pictures of the dash and related connectors. Very helpful.

    As mentioned before, I am already set with the resistor matchup. I am pretty confident its #7 and I've got it matched very, very closely.

    Because am not doing this at my location, I need to be 100% prepared and I have everything I need in advance. My biggest concerns still are...

    1. Finding/accessing the C1 connector. Basically correct removal of the dash pad!

    I know you said that is has been posted 100's of times but I've searched and really couldn't find anything decent. In my experience there are always gotchas removing these interior pieces and if you don't know what you are doing you can break s**t (door panels anyone?) If anyone could provide a good link on dash removal with steps and even pics, or offer tips here I would greatly appreciate it.

    2. In step 1 you have "go to a junkyard and cut a connector with a 6-8 harness attached". I'm not sure I have a JY available to me that I could source this from. Would it be possible to simply source the (20g?) wires/crimp pins from Radio Shack and instead?

  9. #24
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    You don't get it winks, you don't just need 20AWG wires and some crimp pins, you need the wire with the special GM metal crimp pin attached so you can insert it in the plastic connector housing. As far as I am concerned there is no supplier that I know of having the pins for sale (definitely not Radio Shack). Took me almost 2 hours this morning to draw that picture just to make is super obvious. Really should be no more questions after looking at the very obvious picture.
    Radio Shack should supply you the resistor and the heat shrink tube. Find one that is just large enough to slide the resistor in (at least as long as the resistor and pins extended (but you will cut the resistor pins to at least half the size).

    Dash pad cover removal literally is one of the most popular topics in this forum. I give you a tip, use google search not the forum search, google is better.

    You have 4 vents in the dash (the wood part of it).
    Look carefully to one of the vents, it swivels up and down (the grille part) and you notice a plastic thin frame between the grille and the wood.
    Insert two flat (very thin) tools in between the grille and the plastic frame (NOT between the frame and wood). You insert the tools one on each side of the individual grille (sides not top/bottom). Once both tools are inserted ~1' between the grille and the plastic frame (again not the wood) you just pull the grille out (the blades will release simultaneously the 2 clips holding the grille in.
    Repeat the above step to all 4 vents.
    Now once the vents are out CLOSE all vents (it will prevent screws to fall into the ducts – you will thank me).
    With the vent grilles removed and vents close look on the upper edge of each vent frame, you will notice a 9/32 screw up in there (one for each vent).
    The screw on the far left grille (between driver's door and steering wheel) must be removed all the way (unscrew it completely). Now you will thank me I told you to close the vents.
    Then the other 3 vents (2 central and the far right side one) will NOT require to remove the screws all the way (very important DO NOT unscrew all the way) just loosen each about 2-3 turns. The dash pad cover is designed to pop up on the passenger side against the windshield in a airbag deploy. The airbag just pops from in between the wood trim and dash pad cover and the dash pad will protect you from bracken glass. As a result the 3 clips holding the cover central and to the right side are designed to yield (is what you may call spring loaded clips). When you loosen the screws 2-3 turns the clips will fully release the cover, just lifts up. When installing back you just drop the cover in place and tighten the screws.
    Now the front side of the dash pad cover is loose. You still have 3 more screws hidden under the defrost grille. The defrost grille just comes out is stuffed in the slot in the dash pad cover.
    Pay attention there is the light sensor and the sun load sensor, so don't just yank the grille, there are 2 wires attached. Remove the grille just enough to slide your hand underneath and unscrew 1/4 of a turn the sensors. One of the sensors (the one with the green or black 2 wire cable - depends on the year) does have a connector ~10' from the sensor behind the grille (the one with the connector is a bit more difficult to unscrew than the other so if you can't turn it look for the connector). The other one needs to be unscrewed. Obviously need not say, resist the urge to cut the wires, if you feel this urge you are doing something wrong.
    Sensors out; defrost grille out of the way; now you can see inside 3 screws (9/32), 2 on the sides and one in the middle. The one on the right side is a regular screw; the others are self-taping. DO NOT mix! Remember the big one goes on the far right side.
    Now the dash pad cover is loose. To remove it you may find that is required removing one of the 2 A pillar covers. The covers are held in the "A" pillar with 2 tangs that slide into spring-loaded clips. Just grab the top of the cover and pry parallel with the windshield. That will release the top tang, the bottom one will come loose almost immediately.
    Although the dash pad cover is flexible try to minimize the flexing as the underside is made of a fairly easy to crack plastic.
    That’s it now you have access to the IPC, you don’t need to remove the IPC from its place (it is just 4 screws away), you have all access you need right there sitting in the driver’s seat.
    Look at the plastic connector (the removable blue attachments see the picture in my previous thread). Underneath you will se a A and a B indicating the row and a 1 and a 12 at the beginning and end of the rows. So count 2 pins from 12 and that is 10, on A row is A10 and on B row is B10.
    This is literally the most detailed description possible, the only thing I ommited is when to breath.

  10. #25
    TINKNOCKER is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Starting disabled randomly - wait 3 min

    Winks, Sorry not to get back to you in a timely manner. I'm a single dad and have been working 50-60 hours a week lately and have to give what's left to my daughter. You found the right man for the job though. N* has gotten so in depth in this thread It probably should be edited and become a sticky! None of our cars are ever going to get any younger. will be more and more with this issue. Thanks again!

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