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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by submariner409 One point is that ANY coolant goes bad over time. Like it or not, lots of ...
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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by submariner409 View Post
    One point is that ANY coolant goes bad over time. Like it or not, lots of nasties build up in the system and water jackets, so a drain and fill every 3 years is mandatory. The stuff - green or yellow - does have a high load anti-corrosion package, but heat and trace gas weeps (in ANY engine) slowly destroys the coolant's capability for corrosion control. Bottom line: change it religiously.

    Want anal ??? Every 3 or 4 months, while I'm checking either the car or truck fluids and other stuff, I siphon off 2 quarts of coolant from the reservoir - cold. Refill with fresh mix - I keep 2 gallons ready. At the end of a year I have exchanged 2 gallons of coolant in each vehicle, and what siphons out is crystal clear yellow.

    You should see some of the coolant specs for large marine diesels.
    I absolutely have loved all three of my N* Caddies and do not take any shortcuts when maintaining or repairing. Being anal can't hurt if it may actually help. I like your approach, as it seems relatively simple to do. The drain and refill can get scary because air pockets do form and the temp gauge does rise until the system burps.

    Now I know I'm not daydreaming, but with knowledge of the casting porosities, "someone" used to tell us to put the pellets and/or bars leak Golden Seal powder (ginger root and ground up walnut shells) in the radiator hose. It's not going to fix a headgasket, but it may seal or delay those tiny pin holes from becoming larger holes that nothing in a bottle can fix (assuming the anti-corrosive additives are in place).

    This is mostly why I'm interested in the coolant exchange (and the corrosion control).. Do you have a personal favorite coolant (what are the marine specs vs automotive.. I wonder if aviation has stricter specs too?).

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by submariner409 View Post
    Not so - the corroding coolant seeps into the head bolt holes through the porous block or cavities from the pressurized cooling passages. The head gasket can be solid as a rock UNTIL the bolts start to pull........then you get coolant in a (the) cylinder(s).
    Yikes. That would suck.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mtflight View Post
    Do you have a personal favorite coolant (what are the marine specs vs automotive.. I wonder if aviation has stricter specs too?).
    Old school - I have used Prestone products for 56 years and as far as I know they have never let me down.

    Marine engines - different metallurgy, different duty, different requirements.

    Are there ANY liquid-cooled aviation engines today ? Other than WW-II and Korean era warbirds ?

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    That's exactly what I got, the Preston extended life coolant, and I also got an anti-corrosion additive booster by them that I plan to add. And unfortunately, I'll start a HG fund too.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    In the N* disscussion "The Root of headgasket failure" it's all spellled out. Pictures and plenty of expeirience to back up the issue

    This is not a head gasket failing problem.
    This is a block casting production issue that causes the head bolt threads to fail.

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ilure-fix.html

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Who cares at this point on what the root cause is. Oil wars, coolant wars, etc, let's focus on the fix(es).

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    My Seville was the one which the threads didn't fail but the gaskets did. All 20 bolts were difficult to remove and gave me a good "thunk" noise when they finally broke free. This car received an 'ok' coolant maintenance, first in 2003, again in 2006 with the water pump gasket, and then in 2009 before the car was sold to me.


    Here's the picture of thread locker used at the end of the 2000 Northstar head bolt. It was pretty thick in size.


    Here's the picture of the gasket, it was in terrible shape, gasket bits flaking off of it around the water jacket mating point.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Wow that gasket looks awful. Allegedly the anti-corrosion package is there to prevent this from happening ( 5 yrs/ 50,000 miles). I mean what anti-corrosion package?



    I'm not a conspiracist and don't believe this happened on purpose, this looks like a live experiment gone wrong. Mistakes were made, lessons were learned... I see why they now go with multiple layer stainless steel (MLS) gaskets.
    This should have never happened. I hope that's not what mine looks like.......

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vincentm View Post
    Who cares at this point on what the root cause is. Oil wars, coolant wars, etc, let's focus on the fix(es).
    Investigation is necessary to come up with a good fix or at least to prevent the same mistakes from happening again. I care, which is why I started the thread. The fix is known: R&R HG and head bolts.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewsdeville View Post
    Also, Dexcool was used in all GM engines 1996 and later, not just the N*. If Dexcool was the cause for gasket failure, the headgasket phenomenon would have extended across all GM engines rather than being isolated to just the N*.

    There is NO hard evidence linking Dexcool to gasket failure. Lots of speculation on the internet, but no proof.
    I couldn't agree more. Also if Dex was the cause, as well as affecting other GM engines HG's, what about intake manifold gaskets on their engine with wet intakes? What about thermostat housing gaskets and water pump gaskets?


    Interestingly enough, apparently Subaru's with die-cast open deck blocks have HG issues too.
    My buddy just had the HG's replaced on his Subaru.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Hey Larry,

    I think there are many issues (in order of greater to lesser importance, the way I interpret it...)
    1. open deck block design, with large area of direct contact with coolant (closed deck designs don't have this many issues w hg)
    2. graphite head gasket, prone to corrode if anti-corrosion additives aren't refreshed or effective (dexcool --organic acid-- is completely different than conventional green--salicilates)
      as evidence... GM went to a different MLS type head gasket material (stainless steel, less prone to corrosion), keeping dexcool
    3. die casting porosities/defects (wet sandbox effect sub mentions)
    4. head bolts / aluminum vs steel (electrolysis, JimD, yadda yadda)
    the gasket material is an issue. Look at maeng9981, regular coolant exchange intervals (3 yrs vs 5), and a rusted out flaky gasket. In theory that should never have happened! His issue wasn't the headbolts... they all popped/snapped. In his case the combination of head gasket material, open deck, and anti-corrosion additives, all failed together.

    Not all gaskets are prone to rust out... GM now uses stainless steel gaskets in RWD N* possibly others applications too

    I don't think that the head gaskets in the 93-96 were any different than the 99-05 (I don't know, requires research)... I speculate the difference was prolonged drain intervals and an anti corrosion additive that didn't work with that headgasket material the way it was supposed to. They took a crap shoot, and lost.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    If I had to guess, I'd blame it on prolonged drain intervals and open deck. Just my $0.02

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    If I had to guess, I'd blame it on prolonged drain intervals and open deck. Just my $0.02
    I agree with your guess. If an engine is built to last it will have corrosion-resistant head gaskets. It's worth the xtra money. Make the maintenance as expensive as is required, if some don't maintain it as is recommended that's their problem. Every 5 years/50,000 miles, didn't work--they're liable for miscalculating, and to my knowledge they lost a class action lawsuit but then they went bankrupt.

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    I'm in the camp of gasket failure over head bolt failure. I know we will never agree but I think its extended life coolant, stop leak, and overheating that break a northstar

    Extended life coolant-extended too long
    Stop leak-put in surge tank not in lower radiator hose as recommended, clogging surge tank line
    Overheating- You cant drive engines that overheat, sooner or later you will get bit.

    I think we aught to diagnose this patient before we pronounce TOD.

    HG block test, system pressure test and surge line flow test.

    You know I'm really beginning to think that some of these guys go under the knife needlessly. Mike

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    Re: Controversial: Where is the evidence that DexCool has no part in HG woes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike5514 View Post
    I'm in the camp of gasket failure over head bolt failure. I know we will never agree but I think its extended life coolant, stop leak, and overheating that break a northstar

    Extended life coolant-extended too long
    Stop leak-put in surge tank not in lower radiator hose as recommended, clogging surge tank line
    Overheating- You cant drive engines that overheat, sooner or later you will get bit.

    I think we aught to diagnose this patient before we pronounce TOD.

    HG block test, system pressure test and surge line flow test.

    You know I'm really beginning to think that some of these guys go under the knife needlessly. Mike
    This is my favorite answer. I suspect you're right on the money.

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