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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; What a great write up. I'd love to do this to my Fleetwood, but I'm scared.......
  1. #76
    MrHolland's Avatar
    MrHolland is offline Super Moderator
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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    What a great write up. I'd love to do this to my Fleetwood, but I'm scared....

  2. #77
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    I have to finish and explain the process for the doors. I keep forgetting.

  3. #78
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
    cadillac kevin is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    great work MC. This thread is very informative on sound deadening (I'm not looking forward to deadening my FWB though....seems very laborious, although I've had my interior out a few times already)
    How much does that MLV cost?

  4. #79
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
    MoistCabbage is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    The raw material used for the manufacturing of MLV can vary. Some is unbearably smelly.

    Here're the prices for the materials I used:
    http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com...product-prices

    No smell unless you put your nose right up to it.

    Keep in mind, since it's so heavy, and the roll is 54" wide, shipping is NOT cheap. If you can find a good product locally, you can save some money there.

    Oh, since I don't think I've mentioned it yet. Dan, the owner of the above site, offers EXCELLENT customer service. Emails are answered quickly, questions in great detail. I'd HIGHLY recommend doing business with him to anyone starting a soundproofing project.

  5. #80
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    It's been more than 4 months since I posted the writeup on soundproofing the floor pan, and I STILL haven't posted anything on the process of soundproofing the doors, Yesterday, someone asked how the interior swap went, which reminded me. So before I forget again...

    The doors require more steps and materials than the floorpan. Besides the MLV and CCF (if you've forgotten - Mass Loaded Vinyl and Closed Cell Foam), there's also extruded butyl rope, and Thinsulate Acoustic sound absorber/thermal insulation.

    First, the butyl rope.



    The purpose this serves is reducing panel resonance, but not in the same way the CLD (Constrained Layer Damper) tiles do. What you do with the rope is wedge it between the side impact beams and door skin. This supports the door skin where it's weakest, in the center. You don't run a continuous length of it, you leave gaps so that any water that might migrate past the window reveal moldings can drain off.

    The gap between the beam and door skin is pretty wide in these cars, so what I did was cut 8" lengths, and fold them in half:



    Then I spaced them out, and pushed them into the gap. The rope is very sticky, and would stick to your fingers if you pressed on it directly. SDS is nice enough to include small squares of non stick paper to press down on it with. The only problem I had with them is that they were small. My solution was to use the backing from the CLD tiles. One side is waxed, and they're much larger. Worked great.

    You might have noticed that next to the butyl rope, there are painted over blobs of expanding foam adhesive. Being a luxury car, GM applied a few dollops that serve the same purpose of the butyl rope. The butyl did make a noticeable difference in the "tap test" though.

    The next step was applying CLD tiles to the outer door skin. This was easy and straight forward. There is one CLD tile on the lower part of the door from the factory. It's painted over, but you can see it in the picture. You can't see all of the tiles that I put on because the inner door skin is in the way, but you get the idea:



    Now because the plastic moisture barrier mounts over the inner door skin, I couldn't place CLD tiles on the front side of it. The solution is applying the tiles to the backside. A little trickier, but not too bad:



    You also have to poke holes for any fasteners:



    The next step was applying CLD tiles to the RIDICULOUSLY brittle moisture barriers. I started with a front door, being EXTREMELY careful to support the area behind where I was using the roller:



    Then I removed the rear door panels, and discovered the rear barriers were shattered. So... off to the junk yard. As I was removing door panels looking for intact barriers, I discovered that the '98-'00 cars had black, ABS plastic barriers. They aren't brittle at all!!! I grabbed a complete set. Here's a rear one with tiles applied and installed:



    Now... the fun part. The MLV...

    To start, you trace each door panel onto the MLV, and cut out the shapes. You'll never be as to use that big of a piece, but you have to start somewhere. Since the MLV doesn't compress at all, you have to cut it short of the perimeter of the door panel, around any fasteners, and anywhere there's contact between the door panel and inner door skin/moisture barrier. As it worked out for the Seville, the overall shape had to match the moisture barrier completely, so I traced the barriers onto the MLV, and cut out those shapes.

    Then the fine trimming starts. For this car, cutouts around the speakers, where the door handle mounts, and protrusions on the moisture barriers. The trick is to cut away as little as possible, and make as few holes as possible. The less MLV, the less effective it is as a sound barrier.

    Here's what I was left with after making all the cuts for a front door:



    The little black squares you see are patches of Velcro. That's what holds the MLV to the doors. It's the same Velcro used for the floorpan pieces, with the vinyl specific adhesive. Here're the corresponding pieces on the door:



    You also have to decouple the MLV from the door with CCF. This is pretty easy. Trace the MLV, cut the CCF a little smaller, glue them together with the vinyl specific contact cement.

    The Velcro is stuck to the MLV, and the CCF has to go between the MLV and the door. So doesn't the CCF get in the way? No. Because the CCF is so thin, and it compresses. All you have to do is make cutouts where the Velcro is, and the thickness of the Velcro allows the hook and loop sides to reach each other right past the CCF. You're left with this:



    Here's a piece of MLV cut to the shape of a front door panel, and a piece cut to fit. You end up trimming a lot off:



    Here're the the MLV/CCF "panels" installed:





    I'm not sure how many more pictures I have to post, and I think I'm getting close to the 15 picture per post limit. So I'm going to start a new post...

  6. #81
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    It took A LOT of test fitting and trimming to get the MLV/CCF to fit, and allow the door panels to go back on. The good thing is, you only have to figure out one front door and one rear door. In most cases, the opposite doors are just mirror images, so you just trace the two you made and cut copies.

    The last part of treating the doors is filling as much of the door panel with the Thinsulate Acoustic product as possible. It comes in a roll, and is surprisingly tricky to cut. It actually dulled 2 pairs of scissors. You can't use a razor blade, because the white part is actually quite delicate, and would just pull and tear.





    It actually took a lot longer to get all the pieces cut than I expected. Not too much to show on this. Just measuring, cutting, test fitting, and a few dots of hot glue to hold it in place:



    Speaking of sound absorbing material. There is a small patch of it in each front door from the factory. Its size, and its position directly behind the speaker suggests that it's intended to absorb sound coming from the rear of the speaker, though, not to keep the cabin quiet.



    The "T" at the top goes behind and over the side impact beam in the door, keeping it in place.

  7. #82
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    I just realized I never went over "decoupling" with the CCF.

    Decoupling is just keeping 2 surfaces from touching each other, to keep them from vibrating. Anywhere there's MLV up against a surface or object that may vibrate against it, CCF is used as a decoupler. Something vibrating against the CCF won't make any sound. Another reason CCF is used instead of an open cell foam, is that it won't absorb liquids or odors.

    I didn't bother putting CCF on the MLV on the floor. Two reasons: One, everything fits pretty precisely in this car, there's not much wiggle room. 1/8" doesn't sound line much, but when it's EVERYWHERE, and does not compress at all, it takes up more space than you'd think. Adding another 1/8" of foam, even if it is compressible, wasn't really an option. The other reason, it wasn't really necessary on the floor. The molded carpet foam is contoured to the foam, and more than heavy enough to keep the MLV pressed solidly against anything under earth it.

    CCF doesn't block sound, so there was really no disadvantage to not using it in the floorpan.

    It WAS used on the doors, on the large piece of MLV that goes from the top of the rear seat all down to the front of the rear seat bottom, and in several other places that things were hitting each other and vibrating (on the amplifier, on some areas of the moisture barriers, etc.).
    rodnok01 likes this.

  8. #83
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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoistCabbage View Post
    I just realized I never went over "decoupling" with the CCF.

    Decoupling is just keeping 2 surfaces from touching each other, to keep them from vibrating. Anywhere there's MLV up against a surface or object that may vibrate against it, CCF is used as a decoupler. Something vibrating against the CCF won't make any sound. Another reason CCF is used instead of an open cell foam, is that it won't absorb liquids or odors.

    I didn't bother putting CCF on the MLV on the floor. Two reasons: One, everything fits pretty precisely in this car, there's not much wiggle room. 1/8" doesn't sound line much, but when it's EVERYWHERE, and does not compress at all, it takes up more space than you'd think. Adding another 1/8" of foam, even if it is compressible, wasn't really an option. The other reason, it wasn't really necessary on the floor. The molded carpet foam is contoured to the foam, and more than heavy enough to keep the MLV pressed solidly against anything under earth it.

    CCF doesn't block sound, so there was really no disadvantage to not using it in the floorpan.

    It WAS used on the doors, on the large piece of MLV that goes from the top of the rear seat all down to the front of the rear seat bottom, and in several other places that things were hitting each other and vibrating (on the amplifier, on some areas of the moisture barriers, etc.).
    --------------------------
    now you need to go hit the truck scales -
    I bet you added another 1000 pounds to the car -

  9. #84
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    Haha. I added ~80 pounds. The foam and Thinsulate are essentially weightless, and I didn't use all of the MLV.

    Hey, between the Corsa weighing less than the stock system, and the power it added. Lets just say I broke even .
    Ludacrisvp likes this.

  10. #85
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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    just burn the rubber off the tires so that they weigh less too
    MoistCabbage likes this.

  11. #86
    vacuumbed is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    Amazing work!!! Thanks for the writeup on this, Moistcabbage. If I buy a blue onyx Seville I will be doing the same thing, interior going to black. I bet your car is super QUIET!

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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    MoistCabbage,
    Is this a tough job to do without all the extra mods, just to change the color?

  13. #88
    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    While that all depends on your skill level, the dash (and reconnecting the intermediate steering shaft) are by far the most involved steps. Other than the ISS, I'm not sure I'd call any of it difficult. It's just a lot of things to do, and you'll be dealing with some fairly heavy and awkward parts that you have to be careful not to damage, or damage anything else with.

    The headliner is delicate, and BARELY fits out of/into the car. If you read the whole thread, you'll see I had to repair it, and it was damaged before even removing it from the car. Easy enough to do, but it's another step. A pillars will probably fall apart and need repair, C pillar/sail panel clip posts may break.

    It is a satisfying job once you're done. Like driving a whole new car.

    If you do end up doing it, feel free to ask me any questions you have.

  14. #89
    vacuumbed is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Interior swap, What modules/parts need to swapped from my car?

    Thank you, I will keep you posted.

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