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front strut replacement debacle

5K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  mhamilton 
#1 ·
:( I could not be more upset at these AC Delco front struts I bought. I had replaced my rear shocks with Delco earlier in the year when the air bladders ruptured. Since then I've noticed how bad the front has gotten, not that it isn't smooth, but they have lost their ability to control rebound.

So ordered Delcos. This is the FE1 passive setup on my car, btw. I read the "how to" in tech tips--great article, nothing wrong with it, but a few small but VERY important differences with the 98+ Seville and Eldo. The strut mount is not like Seville, the top nut sits down in a 1" recess and you need a special socket to remove it while holding the shaft with a torx bit.

I found that out after I had removed the strut and disturbed my alignment. I ended up making my own tool by grinding flats on a 24mm socket, fit a torx socket in the center, and got the bolt off. So got that done.

Trying to put the spring on the new strut, these Delcos do not have a torx bit in the center. They have a shaft with 2 flats about 10mm. Absolutly no way to get the bolt on and hold the shaft. What a mess. Ended up putting my old strut back on, getting the camber set as close as I could to where the bolt's ghost was.

Anyone else use Delco struts and run into this problem? Is there a tool I can get for these? I searched and can not find anything that would work (I'm not sure there actually is, given the clearances involved). These are headed right back to the store, and I'll get genuine GM. Chris, I'll have to send you an email, are the struts you sell Delco or Genuine GM? Do they have the torx socket in the shaft?
 
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#4 ·
I hear what you're saying, I was nearly at that point today after futzing for 7 hours with this POS. But I realized I was not going to pay good money for OE-brand parts that require an impact gun and vice grips to install. I know how snobbish that sounds, but that's just my feeling.

I honestly do not believe these shocks fit my application. Unless Delco makes a tool to install them, then these struts only work on 98+ Sevilles and other models with the flat strut bearing plates. I don't think there is any tool that could hold the 10mm flat and allow a socket to fit over it to tighten the bolt. There simply is not enough room for both.
 
#6 ·
An impact should not be used on a shock/strut rod. If a dealer does this, they need to go back to school.
You never want to rotate or worse, spin the rod. There are no rotating parts on a strut & operate in a fixed linear motion.
You risk the chance of damaging the piston seal.

The strut is unusually expensive why would you risk damaging it?

Use a wrench of this sort-
 
#9 · (Edited)
An impact should not be used on a shock/strut rod. If a dealer does this, they need to go back to school.
You never want to rotate or worse, spin the rod. There are no rotating parts on a strut & operate in a fixed linear motion.
You risk the chance of damaging the piston seal.

The strut is unusually expensive why would you risk damaging it?
I guess I made the assumption that one would know not to let the shaft spin...that's the point of using the impact. You don't stick the socket on and hold the trigger till something happens. Rather, you repeatedly "zap" it in quick spurts; the quick, sudden, and short torque applications spin the nut down without turning the shaft.

Like with any other tool, there's a right way and wrong way to use an impact depending on the application. Part of using an impact is knowing how to adjust it, to avoid situations where you are shearing nuts and bolts.

Setting the gun to max power and holding the trigger is rarely the answer and can be quite destructive.
 
#7 ·
I hate impact guns, I don't even like them to remove nuts. Things usually shear off or strip before you even know what happened.

Anyway, I do have similar wrenches as those, but I didn't have 24mm, and it didn't seem like it would get down deep enough to get the bolt all the way to the bottom. I may have to get one as a backup just in case the GM struts don't have the torx head. What's that called, an offset box wrench?
 
#11 ·
also, my top suspension guy just said that he remembers the difference you're talking about but they will fit just fine

he said basically that yeah, sure the FSM says don't use an impact, but he can't remember the last time he did it the way the FSM says (probably back when they still sold the OEM strut)

i think he'd pretty much agree with what drew wrote in post #9
 
#12 ·
Thanks Chris, I appreciate you asking for me. Those are the struts I have, and they are identical except for the torx being missing... but I'm not sure what I'll do. I don't see an impact working to get the nut down without spinning the shaft. It's a prevailing torque nut, it will get on only so far before it simply locks.

*Maybe* holding the shaft up at the top with a piece of heater hose and pliers to keep it from spinning, but I'm not sure I feel good about doing that. I'm going to get a 24mm offset wrench and see if that will work first. The only problem I can foresee with that is that the wrench may not fit into the recess. And I don't see how I could get a vice grip or anything to hold the top of the shaft at the same time.

I'm going to give Delco a call, I want to know what they say about this. Probably nothing, but I guess it's worth a shot.
 
#13 ·
From the service manual line drawings it looks like they hold the strut center rod with a Torx or Allen tip and turn the nut with an offset box end. The nut itself tightens to "no yield" : the threads only go so far.

The entire upper strut mount comes out with the strut using the three 15mm bolts at the top of the tower - 33 ft/lb.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Johnny, I agree with you 100%. Have you replaced the struts on your Eldo? Do the 60* offset wrenches fit down in the recess?

Sub, that is absolutly correct for the 98+ Seville strut plate. There is no way to do that on the Eldo struts. The nut is down in a little 1" recess, you can't get an open ended wrench over the bolt at all. The OE struts have a special socket with flats, which the torx bit fits in the center of. And that is the issue with these Delco replacements--there is no torx socket! I have no way to hold the rod while I tighten it.

This is the type of tool I need, but I can not find it in 24mm. I'm thinking the offset wrench may be the only option.


If that won't work, I'm sending the shocks back, keeping the old ones and just getting the car aligned. It's so messed up right now, I can't keep driving it with the camber and toe all buggered up.
 
#20 ·
I swear I'm going to be sick over this. Called Delco, the guy says he had the same problem with Devilles, he just held the shaft with channel locks. There's no tool they have or ever had for these.

I did see that W body tool, that's a different style. What I really need is a tool like this: http://www.amazon.com/Beta-Offset-W...68SI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1306182540&sr=8-6 but I can't find any that anyplace has in stock. I'm thinking a 75 degree offset wrench won't fit. I give up. This is sickening. I buy a GM brand part and end up with crap.

I mean what else could I do? Cut a slot in the top of the shaft and hold it with a screw driver? That would probable not be able to torque. I could maybe try bending a cheapo 24mm wrench. Or, maybe run a tap through the prevailing torque nut to fix the threads and use some LockTite to keep it secure?
 
#22 ·
Yeah... I ruled out those options after thinking about it. Was talking with my coworker, we came back to what lizzardman said in post #2, hold the shaft with some heater hose and vice grips... or a strap clamp (probably the best option). I think that is what we will end up doing. If the rubber holds it will have no issues. If not, I know you can hold it up top because that section never gets low enough to scratch up the seals (the spring can't compress that much). Not at all the ideal solution. Hopefully this weekend we can give it another shot. If not, I need to get it aligned with the old struts, otherwise it's going to ruin my tires.
 
#23 ·
Just to finish off this thread, got my new struts installed this morning. Had a friend help me, we ended up doing the job with a vise grip and piece of heater hose to keep the shaft from rotating. Worked okay, but definitely not as easy as having the tool to hold the torx (and took 2 of us to do).

But what a difference! Still need to get my alignment done, but wow! Suddenly my car doesn't float anymore. Not sure how I feel about, I liked the feeling of being on a cloud, until it started bouncing and wouldn't stop. It's certainly not rough, but definitely a different feel that I have to get used to. I like being able to make a turn without braking to 5 mph, that was getting very tiring. And I can brake without the nose scraping the pavement lol. I guess now I have back the "Sport Coupe" aspect of the ESC :)

Anyway, thank you all for your comments and help getting this done!
 
#24 ·
You shouldn't worry about scarring the shaft with a pair of vice grips. I've tried holding two different setups with vise grips, as hard as I could try, the vise grips wouldn't touch those hardened shafts. Emery paper wouldn't do it, vise grips and tightening the screw with a hex key, etc, it just wouldn't happen.
 
#27 ·
Thought of something like a cut off socket, but the way these are, there just wouldn't be enough room to hold the center while a socket is over it. It just wasn't designed to install like that, unfortunately. The way GM did it originally with the torx in the center was the way to do it, but even that torx bit didn't have much clearance.
 
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