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Cadillac Seville / Cadillac Eldorado Forum Discussion, NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Hi Chris, Thanks for the info. The 79 Eldo sounds like a good deal. I own a 78 Seville in ...
  1. #16
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for the info. The 79 Eldo sounds like a good deal. I own a 78 Seville in mint condition. Sometimes the car runs good and sometimes it stumbles on light acceleration or idles rough. I have many Seville service manuals that came with the purchase of this car. The previous owner replaced a lot of parts on this Seville. Well, I was driving the car and fuel pump on the rail crapped out. I got stuck with the car on Thanksgiving morning and was pissed off. Triple A flat bedded it home.

    I am swapping out the EFI for a Carburetor. I went to my local junkyard and got a 4V aluminum intake from a late 70's Cutlass. I have a 4V Rochester Quadrajet Carb getting rebuilt for me as we speak. I read a small post from a guy named Vic Vega, where I can use the low volume fuel pump in the tank. Since the pump in the tank is new, I will use it. My car ran decent and I could have just replaced the high pressure fuel pump and took my chances. But I choose not to do that. All of my vehicles are dependable and I am not breaking down again on the side of the road. I will make this Caddy a dependable one, that I can easily fix myself at anytime. I will keep you all posted on my progress. Thanks again for the info.


    Joe
    Flash Man

  2. #17
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Hi Matt and Joe,

    Your welcome.

    Yes, I got a little carried away. You'll be reading a while on my posts.

    I just really mis my 79 Eldo

    Anyway, "Thats all I have to say about that"............



    Good Luck,

    chris

  3. #18
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Just to keep everyone updated as promissed:

    Well, I've tried everything here and on the web to track down Vic Vega's info on EFI to Carb conversion including e-mailing Kerry Lange in post #9 on this old thread:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...n-problem.html

    Kerry did e-mail me a few times but said he never did the conversion, sold the car, and dispossed of the conversion info and he wish he didn't because he always gets e-mails about it. He did say it was very involved and was a well written; 10 pgs of instructions. I managed to find an e-mail to Vic Vega from his other posts on this forum but it no longer works and was probably set up just for this forum. I have Kerry Lange trying to do a FINAL search on his e-mail server with Vics e-mail so hopefully he'll find the old e-mail.

    The other alternative is try and somehow get MSN to open that old Group Message Board where Vic posted the conversion above. In my long posts I made in the threads below, somewhere I read about the history of that EFI and the dealers were doing conversions to carb when the car was only a few years old at the customers request. Cadillac had to supply a carb adapter/special manifold ect. and maybe someone can see if Cadillac had an old TSB on the conversion if this was the truth............. just for the hell of it even though the parts would be long gone and or obsolete would still be interesting how they solved the hood clearance issues that are experienced today.

    Other than that; other's have posted in this thread of industry experts to contact for a EFI to Carb Conversion:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...oing-carb.html


    If I get anything back on this, I'll post it here and in the links I provided above.

    Regards,
    Chris

  4. #19
    carnut is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    I was a service advisor with Cadillac from 1982 thru 1991 and was very familiar with the 76 thru 79 Sevilles. I personally never heard nor saw any "factory" OK'd conversion bulletin regarding a carb switch over. Emission laws here in California would have never allowed it in the 1st place. The only conversion I saw at that time was swapping the diesel engines for gas engines. There were independent shops selling kits to do this.

  5. #20
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Thats what I ended up thinking also but figured maybe the Emmission Standards were laxed enough then that Cad. got away with it and the dealers sidestepped Emmisions for their customers. I reviewed the listings on ALLDATA for the 76-80 Sevilles and Eldorado's and didn't see anything other that a TSB #"8345 MAR 83 Engine/Fuel - Miscellaneous Items" but I don't know what it said since I don't have a subscription.

    For some reason, ALLDATA's year search only goes to 1982 but if you if you "Google" your "year, model, and TSB" you will always get a link to Alldata's TSB lists. When I do a search for "1976 or 1977 Eldorado TSB" I get links to ALLDATA and it asks either for 76' model year, "500ci 4bbl or 500ci F.I." also, 1977 states 425 4bbl or 425 F.I."

    Maybe thats what they were doing on some of those early models was just putting on the optional equipment for those years, and maybe other model years for customers who were really bitch'in. After all, one thing this country is teribble at these days is "Customer Service" even though the term is slung and flunged at us daily.

    chris

  6. #21
    carnut is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Dealers modifying a car especially in Calif. that would affect emissions are virtually un heard of. Then as now. The 500 cu in engine had virtually the same system except the injectors were larger. I say again there was never a bulletin regarding swapping a carb onto this engine. ALLDATA will not help you. They only have bulletins and notes on recalls to repair an unmodified car. I presume you dont go thru any emission testing where you live?

  7. #22
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Nope..........Florida blows all their smog accross the Gulf and into Texas which is why their air is so bad! Emissions was discontinued in 2000 in Fl. when it was a state run program. This should have never been permitted as so many cars run so bad......... I hate to drive in traffic with my windows down...........probably 50% traffic has their check engine lights on!

    I'm not sure about the other states, but I was from Pa. where your local service station/shop would do the emmisions testing. They were all known just to sample a good running car inorder to pass it for a few bucks on the side and I've seen first hand how the emmisions was beat especially at the dealers back then in the 80's and 90's.

    So the info I came accross maybe was incorrect or someone knew of some Cad Dealers doing the conversions quietly that Cadillac Corp. didn't know or didn't care to know about but to keep the customer happy as the Bendix EFI was a pain and very primative design.............. I'm sure the Feds/EPA gave Cad. some incentive to start converting to EFI back then too.

    But I see through ALLDATA, that the 76 Eldo came with either a 4bbl or EFI 500 motor.
    http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/760802_en.html

    1977 Eldo had either the 425 motor came either with F.I. or 4bbl............ ect.........
    http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/770802_en.html

    I'm just wondering if the intake/carb or other mods. were done to convert a troblesome EFI to a carb back then.

    I'm hoping to hear back to see if the info that the member VicVega posted in 2005 can be located on how to convert EFI to Carb. One member e-mailed me and said he no longer has the info, but it was a well written 10pg. document. The other Threads have remarked that there was always hood clearence issues using a Edlebrock Manifold/Carb so I'm very curious of how this guy did it but chances are slim that I or anyone can find his info out on the web unless this guy gets back on the forum after 6 yrs of radio silence.
    chris

  8. #23
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Just fixed a 84 eldorado 4.1 8 cylinder, same body style. but not sure if its set up the same way of a 79 olds engine Eldo.. but it might help.
    basically no gas was getting through (took the fuel filter off, cranked it up , no fuel shooting through)...

    It was a bad fuel pump relay....located under, the dash driver side, above and before the e brake pedal...a group of four relays and fuses on one block (not the fuse panel), its the second relay from the right.

    Standard brand parts#RY116 about $12.00

  9. #24
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    I asked a friend of mine out east who (in his late 60s now) was a service tech at Cadillac for 30yrs if he has heard of Dealer installed carbed conversions of the early Olds EFI, he laughed. LOL said he never seen it happen.

    KOCadillacs, thanks for the reply, but 79 and 84 are different systems. My relay is integrated in the ECU, both the fast idle valve at the throttle body and fuel pump run off this same relay inside the ECU. With the extra load from the Fuel pump, pin C on the ECU connector (which feeds the fuelpump) has been known to short/burn and cause the pump to lose power. I pulled my computer and tested power to the ECU, as well as output to the Idle valve and fuel pump, both pins test good and put out power to each. so the relay is good, i traced the power out to the pump on the frame. so I believe my pump is bad.

    There is a fix I learned from a very knowledgeable Cadillac man Bruce Roe, for a bad pin C on the ECU(or to PREVENT a future failure at that pin) which consists of taking a standard 12vdc relay and disconnecting the fuel pumps at pin c, connecting them to new external relay, rerouting pin C wire in parallel with pin J (fast idle valve) to carry the rest of the current. then connect the other relay contact to a fused fuel pump source (IE, pin H going IN to the ECU), connect one relay coil wire to the fast idle valve pin J, and the other coil wire to a ground. pretty simple but effective I guess. I think hes even working on replacing the internal MAP sensor with a more reliable later version. not sure if it has been successful or not yet. he has a photobucket page (I dont have it at the moment) with TONS of cadillac EFI ECU info. i wish this guy was my neighbor!

  10. #25
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Hey SEOK,

    I was waiting to see if you were ever going to mention Bruce Roe of the "Cadillac & LaSalle Club" so incase you didn't mention him, I was going to post up his highly technical overview and mods to the Bendix EFI used on the 76-80 Sevilles and Eldorado's.

    I've reviewed this info. and this guy definitely has privilaged and an indepth understanding and knowledge above and beyond anyone from an Electronic Engineering point of view. He is the absolute authority on this system............PERIOD.

    I am still waiting on some info about VicVega's EFI to Carb 10pg detailed conversion but I've tried everything to track down his info and are waiting on 2 sources tomorrow but it looks slim...........I just wanted to get that posted here on the forum maybe as a STICKY. I'm going to put a new thread up someday soon for "Bendix EFI Mods" and post the link to Bruce Roe's detailed photobucket page of his mods to the Bendix EFI. That thread definitely will need to be placed as a "STICKY".

    But for the sake of the suspense,..............Here are the links below that everyone with this Fuel Injection should definitely review!!!!!!!!!!

    Cadillac & LaSalle Club Thread regarding EFI Mods:
    http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/f...,113001.0.html

    Here is Bruce Roe's (The Bendix EFI Expert) Photo Bucket...........see his sub-albums on the right side of his page for EFI Schematics, EFI Modifications, and even Series 400 Transmission Modifications:
    http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/bcroe/

    SEOK, YOU ARE MORE CORRECT THAN YOU KNOW. I've read through his Tech Info, and just about everything he goes over was knew to me and the ECU Fuel Pump relay problem he discusses is definitely the problem I had when I put the new ECU in but unfortunatly like I said, I had to get rid of the car. Some day I'll track it down and buy it back but I hope its not crushed by now!

    chris

  11. #26
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure


  12. #27
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Chris,

    Yeah Bruce is crazy smart when it comes to these systems. one look at his photobucket page will let anyone know! I actually started an identical thread over on the Cadillac Lasalle forum when i started this one hoping to get the best of both worlds when it came to informative knowledge. I like how this thread is filling up with some great reading from many links for anyone else who is curious to know these cars. Much thanks to YOU CHRIS! youve put in an obviously large amount of your time to research and post up on here. now lets get an organized collaboration of useful info for these systems and get it "STUCK"

    I havent been out to my car since I last posted about the computer test and fuel pump prob. I ordered my new carter pump and if the weather takes a nap i might just get her fired up this weekend! fingers crossed!!!

    Matt

  13. #28
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Your welcome, Glad to hear it. Flashman is close to finishing his EFI to Q'jet conversion on this page incase anyone gets discouraged with the Bendix EFI!

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...n-problem.html

    Can you post up the other link you started on the Cad/LaSalle Forum?

    I really hope someday that there could be a section for the 76-80 Sevilles/Eldorados here on this Forum. I know its been requested before, but not sure how we can get this mov'in.....

    Happy to help,
    Chirs

  14. #29
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Caddy is running!! finally got a chance to install the in line fuel pump, and she fired right up. runs very well actually! It does have an exhaust leak near the muffler and drivers valve cover gasket is shot, leaks a bit. I took a gamble purchasing it not running, Im happy to say it was worth it!.

    theres always some bad news with the good news....I DO have one problem though... something happened in the passenger door latch mechanisms that is causing it to not open. i pushed the button on the handle to open the door and it felt like it was binding, i heard a noise inside like something broke or separated, now it wont open from ANY of the 3 handles! i have NO IDEA how im going to fix this as I cant even get the door panel off since the door wont open! ugggg. any body have any ideas that will help me out?? or am i screwed?

  15. #30
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    Re: NEWBIE NEEDS HELP, 79 Eldorado No fuel pressure

    Oh No..... This car sounds like "Christine"! Those who don't know, should google the movie title!


    This calls for some serious use of the appropriate smilies:



    There's just too many that apply to this situation.

    I dug out my Factory Serv. Manual and no mechanical door diagrams. I see in your earlier posts, you have the Fisher Body Manual. Any diagrams of the inner door componants?

    Here's one idea but be careful. If you can get a diagram of the inner door componants, see if you can access the release rod through the glass and the door seal with a wedge in between both and use of a flashlight. Have someone pull on the door while you fish and poke around. Not sure if it would be a tool that would push down to release, pull up on some mechanism to release or slide forward or backwards.

    Just like a locksmith would do or car theif to unlock the door. They take a plastic or hard rubber wedge or made from wood like a home made door wedge/stop. Wedge it in between the glass and seal and use a flash light to see the componants and get creative. Do you own a universal slim jim? Got mine at NAPA years ago. I think better parts stores would still carry them or buy it on-line. Maybe a tool can't even access any of the latch release mechanisms because of the anti-lock guard plate that I'm sure they used but was not that effective years ago.

    Maybe call AAA or a locksmith and talk with them if they ever experianced that scenario and see if they can give you any ideas or price to do it. Ask a tow drive if they have a person who specializes in it and get in touch with their guy and see if he can do it on the side for cash.

    Maybe go to a yard and take a look at a door. Not sure where your located in the U.S., hopefully where it's not under the Blizzard on the east coast, but go to this site below, and find somewhere that has a door close to you maybe taken off the car and put on a rack inside and w/o the door panel: www.car-parts.com This is a used parts locator and you can set the search by zip code.

    What the hell am I talking about at 2:30am..............just take the panal off your drives side door and see if its possible to get anything down there! Maybe its also possible to take the trim off the 2nd latch that is used for backseat opening to get some tool in there........not sure if how the rod goes in but thats a long shot since its such a small limited access.

    Here's an extreme idea. Cut a huge hole in the inner wheel well then into the door jamb and re-weld everything back up! Somehow get access the back end of the door striker and cut it off. Or drill a hole to the side of the stricke to get a tool into the latch mechanism but you'd have to study the Drivers door area. I know these cars have that plastic vent on the inner jamb of the doors. Not sure if you can even wedge the stationary rear window or remove it to get a tool past that vented jamb to somehow pop that latch.

    Less evasive thought: Can the rear panal be taken off to gain access to that vent in the jamb or the strike or get a drill in there to drill a hole next to the strike to pop that latch!

    These are very Random tired thoughts at now 2:56am.

    Let me know how it goes.

    Very good luck to you.

    Regards,
    Chris

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